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Nothing from nothing, Can this really happen from a Christian Perspective

F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
you're extremely mistaken. the heavens and earth were created from the spirit moving upon the waters, the abyss, the deep.

this is why
Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Click to expand...

Let's see if were getting this right,
So you say the heavens and earth were created from the spirit moving upon the waters.

This is what you said above in your statement.
So where exactly did the water come from, seeing there is no where in the book of Genesis 3-14, that makes any mentioning water being created.
Are you trying to say, that the water was just floating around in space and landed on the earth.
Now seeing water was already there and no mentioning of the water as being created.
So that means the earth was already there also.
For the water to be upon the earth.

The earth was not created during the time God created all things upon the earth.

Otherwise we're supposed to believe that the water was just floating around in space, until God created the earth.

By the way seeing how were talking about how God created things.

Can you explain exactly where the Atmosphere ( air) came from Seeing that there's no mentioning of God creating the Atmosphere (air) or the water at all in Genesis 1:3-14

So where did the Atmosphere ( air) and the water come from, seeing there's no mentioning of God creating them
In Genesis 1:3-14 ?
 
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F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
Yes, but have you thought that the waters of Genesis 1:2 were primordial waters of chaos? From God's perspective; God knows all things that not only exist, but even what could exist. So all of this possibility together was apparently like a great abyss of chaos. Just everything mixed together. The Word of God established as reality what ever God desired to exist from this sea of endless possibilities. Therefore as ever it does the Word of God was dividing. It divided between possibility and actuality. Therefore it established all things and made them real. So, Yes God made all things from nothing in so many words.

but the very first thing God did was call for Light and He illuminated the abyss. So that all His creation could be made in the Light and not in darkness. Because God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. He made all things in the Light of 6 days.

He separated light from darkness. Putting in hiding the Light of creation which is the Word of God. The Light was hidden until it's revealing to the world. The world that is to come would be formless and void when He came because it was in the darkness still ... as it is written of Satan and his demons;
Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us? Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: ...
No wonder when Jesus came near the demons in people cried out because their hiding place was overcome.

But the Light comes to create all things new. Which begins within us. And will destroy the darkness the hiding place of satan. Then what was formless and void; namely the new Jerusalem and the new heaven and earth will be formed and built in the Light of God. As it is written of her; Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.

And
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

so the world is in chaos now thanks to evil that is in the world but God will soon set it right.
Click to expand...

Ok, God said let there be light.
Genesis 1:3

Now in Genesis 1:14-17, here we find God creating the sun, moon and stars.

Now what light was that, That God said let there be light in Genesis 1:3

Compared to Genesis 1:14-17
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
blü 2 said:
Genesis 1 doesn't say God created 'the heavens and the earth' from nothing. It doesn't say what [he] created them from either, but 'from nothing' is just a guess.

And what God in Genesis worded into existence was a flat earth, immovably fixed at the center of everything. Above it was the firmament, that is, the sky as a hard dome that you could walk on, and to which the heavenly bodies were affixed (such that, if they came loose, they'd fall to earth). The nature of the sun, moon, planets and stars was not understood at all. This was the cosmology of that time and place, and the bible reflects precisely and only this view (references >here<).

Incidentally, how did God create real things with words? How's that done exactly? I'd like to study the manual and see how far I get.
Click to expand...

That's right, seeing how the earth and heavens were already there.
But now the question is, When did God created the heavens and earth.

Seeing how in Genesis 1:1--"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth
If notice there's no mentioning when God created the heavens and the earth
Only in the beginning when ever that was.
All we do know is by the dinosaur bones that date back to 6.4 millions of years ago.
So that means the earth was there also.

But not telling exactly how long before the dinosaurs was the earth there.
So the question comes again, when was the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth ?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Kangaroo Feathers said:
Where is that written?
Click to expand...
genesis 1:2 prior to 1:3 there was no form, no formation, then the heavens, earth, things were formed from 1:3 onward.


Gen 1:1-Gen 1:2 NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


the primordial waters
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
Ok, God said let there be light.
Genesis 1:3

Now in Genesis 1:14-17, here we find God creating the sun, moon and stars.

Now what light was that, That God said let there be light in Genesis 1:3

Compared to Genesis 1:14-17
Click to expand...


light, or insight, or understanding, is caused by love. love itself has no cause.
 
Kangaroo Feathers

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Fool said:
genesis 1:2 prior to 1:3 there was no form, no formation, then the heavens, earth, things were formed from 1:3 onward.


Gen 1:1-Gen 1:2 NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


the primordial waters
Click to expand...
"Without form" and primordial waters =/= nothing.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
Let's see if were getting this right,
So you say the heavens and earth were created from the spirit moving upon the waters.

This is what you said above in your statement.
So where exactly did the water come from, seeing there is no where in the book of Genesis 3-14, that makes any mentioning water being created.
Are you trying to say, that the water was just floating around in space and landed on the earth.
Now seeing water was already there and no mentioning of the water as being created.
So that means the earth was already there also.
For the water to be upon the earth.

The earth was not created during the time God created all things upon the earth.

Otherwise we're supposed to believe that the water was just floating around in space, until God created the earth.

By the way seeing how were talking about how God created things.

Can you explain exactly where the Atmosphere ( air) came from Seeing that there's no mentioning of God creating the Atmosphere (air) or the water at all in Genesis 1:3-14

So where did the Atmosphere ( air) and the water come from, seeing there's no mentioning of God creating them
In Genesis 1:3-14 ?
Click to expand...


you were told in genesis 1:2 about the waters and the spirit. it is from these three things that all came to be.


why in the world would you ignore the first two verses?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Kangaroo Feathers said:
"Without form" and primordial waters =/= nothing.
Click to expand...


exactly


it means all formed things come from the formless primordial waters and spirit of God.


God breathed upon the waters and things came to be. so three things were eternal before God created. god itself, spirit, and waters/deep.


some thing from no thing; which is not nothing.
 
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F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
genesis 1:2 prior to 1:2 there was no form, then the heavens and earth were formed from 1:3 onward.


Gen 1:1-Gen 1:2 NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.


the primordial waters
Click to expand...

If you had notice there is a Period at the end of Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the
earth. Period.
Noting more to be said or done.
So the question is, when was it that God created the heavens and the earth?
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
you were told in genesis 1:2 about the waters and the spirit. it is from these three things that all came to be.


why in the world would you ignore the first two verses?
Click to expand...

So explain exactly where the water and Atmosphere ( air) came from
Seeing that there is no where in
Genesis 1:2-14 being mentioning of the water and Atmosphere ( air) as being created, So where did these come from.

Don't say they were just floating around in space and then they just landed here on earth.
So go ahead and explain exactly where they came from, seeing no where in Genesis nothing made mentioning of them being created.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
If you had notice there is a Period at the end of Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the
earth. Period.
Noting more to be said or done.
So the question is, when was it that God created the heavens and the earth?
Click to expand...


very good but it doesn't say it created god's spirit, or the waters; which we know are eternal because jesus said so:

creation is a synonym for formation. forming is a synonym for creating. God's spirit and the water is not formed, or created. created/formed things come from it.

John 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”


Assyriologist Heinrich Zimmern writes in his comparative study of Babylonian and Hebrew creation myths:

According to both traditions before the creation all was water. The deep is personified as a terrible monster, which in the Babylonian version bears the name of "Tihamat," corresponding to the Hebrew "Tehom," used as the technical expression for the primæval ocean. The Hebrew word is employed without the article, like a proper name, thus indicating that in Israelite tradition also it stood originally for some mythological being.[3]
 
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F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
light, or insight, or understanding, is caused by love. love itself has no cause.
Click to expand...

Ho really, but that does not explain exactly where the water and Atmosphere (air)
Came from, seeing how there's nothing mentioned in Genesis 1:2-14 about God creating them
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Kangaroo Feathers said:
Where is that written?
Click to expand...

Genesis 1:2

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. King James Bible. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Fool said:
very good but it doesn't say it created god's spirit, or the waters; which we know are eternal because jesus said so:

creation is a synonym for formation. forming is a synonym for creating. God's spirit and the water is not formed.

John 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”


Assyriologist Heinrich Zimmern writes in his comparative study of Babylonian and Hebrew creation myths:

According to both traditions before the creation all was water. The deep is personified as a terrible monster, which in the Babylonian version bears the name of "Tihamat," corresponding to the Hebrew "Tehom," used as the technical expression for the primæval ocean. The Hebrew word is employed without the article, like a proper name, thus indicating that in Israelite tradition also it stood originally for some mythological being.[3]
Click to expand...

Look Good Spirit moved upon the waters.
Now where did the waters come from,
That there is no where in Genesis 1:2-14
Mentioning of God creating the water or the Atmosphere (air)
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
So explain exactly where the water and Atmosphere ( air) came from
Seeing that there is no where in
Genesis 1:2-14 being mentioning of the water and Atmosphere ( air) as being created, So where did these come from.

Don't say they were just floating around in space and then they just landed here on earth.
So go ahead and explain exactly where they came from, seeing no where in Genesis nothing made mentioning of them being created.
Click to expand...
i'm not here to discuss that. i'm here to refute ex-nihilo; which i've shown to be untrue even from the jewish perspective.



400px-Sandro_Botticelli_-_La_nascita_di_Venere_-_Google_Art_Project_-_edited.jpg
 
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