Faith is believing without knowing. Coupling it with religious or anything else doesn't change what faith is.
OK, I disagree. I think it makes a *huge* difference.
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Faith is believing without knowing. Coupling it with religious or anything else doesn't change what faith is.
Faith is faith. I didn't know there were different kinds of faith. Faith is believing without knowing.
OK, I disagree. I think it makes a *huge* difference.
I've actually said something about this before, but it's worth repeating, I think.My point is this: atheists like to say we religious folk have faith/belief and they dont.
Thats not true, they do have belief, just in something else.
Thats not a word game, its just pointing out an obvious fact.
Join forces with me in refuting all these posts because i dont have enough time to respond to all them.
Is it.
It is well to study words, and think about nuance,
as John Kerry might put it. There is much to consider.
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - faith
Consider degrees of faith, and faith in what.
Surely you see a distinction between faith in "god",
and in a hooker.
OK, I disagree. I think it makes a *huge* difference.
A bit of an equivocation fallacy there since those are different sorts of "faiths".You can have a basketball, a soccer ball, a baseball, a golf ball, a beach ball, a football, etc. No matter what they are used for, they all are balls.
You can have faith in God, faith the hooker is clean, faith the bus will come on time, faith in your child, etc. No matter what it is used for, faith is believing without knowing.
It's all about labels. Labels don't change the core of what something is. That's my opinion and I don't expect you to have the same.
A bit of an equivocation fallacy there since those are different sorts of "faiths".
No, they very different. For example one has "faith" in the bus because it has a published schedule and it is fairly reliable Hardly faith at all. Faith in one's child can vary wildly depending upon a parent's relationship to that child. One may know one's child extremely well or in the case of a father that has abandoned his child not at all. And I don't have that much experience with hookers, that seems to be a rather risky crapshoot to me.Faith is believing without knowing. They are not different faiths, they are faith in different things.
You can have a basketball, a soccer ball, a baseball, a golf ball, a beach ball, a football, etc. No matter what they are used for, they all are balls.
You can have faith in God, faith the hooker is clean, faith the bus will come on time, faith in your child, etc. No matter what it is used for, faith is believing without knowing.
It's all about labels. Labels don't change the core of what something is. That's my opinion and I don't expect you to have the same.
You would think a designer (god) would leave objective evidence for us to find.
At least you can admit all you have is subjective evidence for a designer/god.
No, they very different. For example one has "faith" in the bus because it has a published schedule and it is fairly reliable Hardly faith at all.
Faith in one's child can vary wildly depending upon a parent's relationship to that child. One may know one's child extremely well or in the case of a father that has abandoned his child not at all. And I don't have that much experience with hookers, that seems to be a rather risky crapshoot to me.
It's 'faith' as long as there is even the slightest chance that the bus won't show up on time. Since most city bus lines have, er, variable schedules, someone who shows up to the bus stop 'in the nick of time' is going to have his expectations disappointed more times than he will appreciate.
"Faith" is, basically, acting as if the things one believes to be true IS true. Faith and belief are NOT synonyms, no matter how many people want to make them such. One can believe something to be true and have no faith in it....and one can have little belief in something, logically, and still behave as if that something were true.
Two examples: my sister won't cross a bridge. For any reason. You can inundate her with data, engineering reports...shoot, her husband worked for JPL as a metal fatigue expert. HE can tell her that the bridge is fine. She won't cross one. She believes all the comforting information....but she has no faith.
Hundreds of thousands of people buy lottery tickets (Millions, perhaps...) understanding quite well that the odds of their winning are infinitesimal; millions to one, sometimes. They buy anyway. They have very little belief...but they have faith, by George; they buy the ticket.
I haven't read the post to which yours is a response, so I'm not going to address the 'hooker' comment.
I will say this; religious faith isn't any different from faith anywhere else; it simply means 'trust.' One has faith in one's beliefs, whether religious or any other area of one's life. If you don't like the evidence upon which someone ELSE bases their beliefs, tough....I'm not all that approving of the 'evidence' you have in your lack of belief. Doesn't make a difference, though; you believe...and you have faith in your beliefs.
I believe, and I have faith in mine; that is, I will behave as if the God I believe in actually exists.
The one thing we can't say, though, is that because we don't like the evidence upon which someone else bases their beliefs (subjective, objective, imaginative, oral, whatever) the faith they have is bogus while our own is 'true.'
Oh, and "faith" isn't a dirty word, either. We all live according to faith, whether that faith is based upon objective evidence of which you might approve or not.
Nope, one must be consistent in a definition, otherwise the term not of much use. This is a case of a Tu Quoque fallacy. Theists realize that faith is not reasonable so they accuse others of having it too.
Since the hooker comment was part of the previous response perhaps you should have read it. And no, you may define it that way, but the Bible clearly does not. Not all of us live according to faith. One should not project one's own sins upon others.
Why? Because you want Him to? I don't think that God worries all that much about what you want.
................ok, that came out wrong. I don't think that God worries all that much about what any of us, individually, wants. Including you, or me, or...Joe Blow down the street, insofar as proving that He is, anyway.
I've only written that in almost every post I've written on this thread. The thing is, I don't think that 'subjective' is a dirty word. There's nothing wrong with dealing subjectively with religion or philosophy. In fact, anybody who lives his life demanding objective proof for any and everything is going to live a very circumscribed and lonely life.
He will never love, or have friends...or enjoy things around him simply because of their beauty. He'll never understand most of the things that humans find necessary to life.
True, someone who lives entirely in the world of subjective experiences is nutso....but I truly pity those who really do refuse to admit subjective experiences and learning into their lives.
While I partly agree with your post, growing up in a religious area the way I understood it was the whole faith part is believing in what you can't see. Faith= God wants you to seek him with your heart, not your eyes.
You really need to revisit the 'Logical fallacy' page on Google.
The bible clearly DOES define it that way.
James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!
As you can see, the Bible very clearly differentiates 'belief' and 'Faith.' Faith is not faith (dead faith, being alone) without the 'works,' that is, behaving as if what one beliefs is true is true.
Because 'even the devils believe, and tremble." Nobody can accuse devils...as described in the Bible...of doing the works associated with that belief. They don't have faith.
Because faith without works is dead faith, being alone. Belief is simply belief. Faith is belief plus works (or the behavior that proves one really does believe something enough to act upon that belief).
And yes, we all live on faith, whether it is religious faith or trust in the information we have in other matters. One poster here, I think, alluded to the FACT that we do not KNOW that the sun will rise....but it's a pretty good bet.
Still, one of these days, far down (or up...I can never get that straight) some critter will poke his head out of his home and see the sun...not knowing that four minutes ago it exploded.
We only know that the sun was shining eight minutes ago, when we look out the window at a sunny day. Until then we only have faith that it is still shining. Faith based on really solid evidence, of course, but it's still faith.
Scientists have put great trust (i.e. faith) in many theories over the centuries. Misplaced faith in many instances. Even now, though 'theory' doesn't mean 'guess' in any way, those theories get revisited, and updated, frequently. That's faith/trust, not absolute knowledge.
It doesn't matter what area of life one is speaking about; if there is any hint...any possibility at all...that one could be wrong about something, it's 'faith,' not knowledge...because faith is what one does about one's opinions and beliefs, not what those beliefs are.
No, they very different. For example one has "faith" in the bus because it has a published schedule and it is fairly reliable Hardly faith at all. Faith in one's child can vary wildly depending upon a parent's relationship to that child. One may know one's child extremely well or in the case of a father that has abandoned his child not at all. And I don't have that much experience with hookers, that seems to be a rather risky crapshoot to me.
Sorry, but your use of "faith" is not at all consistent.The schedule is what gives you faith the bus will be on time but you don't know. It might have a flat, get caught up in traffic, be in a accident, break down, etc.
Faith is believing without knowing.
Sorry, but your use of "faith" is not at all consistent.