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Family participation in the death penalty

BSM1

What? Me worry?
In the case of a murder conviction and death sentence for a child rapist/murderer, should a family member have the option of pulling the switch or administrating the needle?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't believe in the death penalty at all, but definitely not an overt indulgence in revenge, which is not rational and highly vulnerable to mistakes, plus isn't good to hold onto for healing from loss or injury anyway.

Signed,
A child molestation survivor
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
If it helps with closure, sure.

I have little empathy for criminals, especially with murderers and rapists. If their initial intent was completely due to being self-centered and to be purely destructive, then I truly have no empathy for them.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
It doesn't. It actually delays it because you get up the false hope that you will feel better, and has you focusing on some external goal which prevents you from dealing with your own internal problems. It's a way to avoid closure.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pieces-mind/201309/revenge-will-you-feel-better

The key word, was IF.

The issue with psychology is that it's not exactly pure science. And it suggests a probability which I can agree that there's a high probability of truth to this matter.

However, IMO, if could help any families of victims then I'm fine if its at the expense of the criminals. They've lost their freedom because of their crimes so this is an extension of that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In the case of a murder conviction and death sentence for a child rapist/murderer, should a family member have the option of pulling the switch or administrating the needle?
I prefer that it be sold to the highest bidder.
But failing that, yes...give the satisfaction to someone in the victim's family.

Note that I oppose the death penalty though.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
I don't believe in the death penalty at all, but definitely not an overt indulgence in revenge, which is not rational and highly vulnerable to mistakes, plus isn't good to hold onto for healing from loss or injury anyway.

Signed,
A child molestation survivor


That wasn't the question.
 

Shadow Link

Active Member
In the case of a murder conviction and death sentence for a child rapist/murderer, should a family member have the option of pulling the switch or administrating the needle?
Depends on the age and mental status of the criminal. One could argue there needs to be more options for the family members to execute with, depending on the degree of violence the victim had to suffer through.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The key word, was IF.

The issue with psychology is that it's not exactly pure science. And it suggests a probability which I can agree that there's a high probability of truth to this matter.

However, IMO, if could help any families of victims then I'm fine if its at the expense of the criminals. They've lost their freedom because of their crimes so this is an extension of that.
Forgetting for a moment that I dont believe in anything like a 'pure' science, I've never seen a situation where revenge was helpful treatment, certainly not by psychologists and psychiatrists. Closure doesnt come from external sources. It comes from you reaching acceptance. If you're actively allowing your wellbeing to be based on the outcomes beyond your control you will perpetually be in an emotionally unhealthy space.

And further, it goes against everything our justice system is about. Justice being 'blind,' using a detached rationality to weigh cases and their outcome. If we had no empathy towards criminals we wouldn't strive for living conditions to have standards or make cruel and unusual punishments illegal. Our legal system certainly isnt pure, either, and adding a bunch of emotional baggage won't help the amount of false convictions and false executions or botched executions.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Depends on the age and mental status of the criminal. One could argue there needs to be more options for the family members to execute with, depending on the degree of violence the victim had to suffer through.


You mean like two in the chest?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Humans are a vile sort. We should caution ourselves against playing out whimsical notions.

Criminal trials and penalties are not civil ones. Why do you think our criminal system should be concerned with the victim or their family at all?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
That wasn't the question.
You asked if the victim's family should be allowed to kill their loved one's murderer. It speaks straight to your question to answer with "no, because nobody should be allowed to kill murderers."
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
In the case of a murder conviction and death sentence for a child rapist/murderer, should a family member have the option of pulling the switch or administrating the needle?
Revenge is a dish best served cold...and yet it remains entirely unsatisfying at the end, and leaves one as trapped in the circumstance as before. Forgiveness really is the only way to free your own self completely, to move on.

Offer me the chance to pull the switch or administer the needle to someone who has made me the bereaved, and I'll refuse to do. I will not kill. I will not sanction the state killing "in my name" by voting for a return to capital punishment.

And at the end of the day, and I say this especially to the Christians on the forum, I do not believe that the Christ I've understood from the Bible would forgive you for doing it.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
I have to look at it from the sense of me personally, and in that sense if there was no doubt whatsoever the person did commit the crime (caught in the act etc.) then yes I would like that option nor would I deny that to another, if they choose not to for whatever reason then so be it.
Though not realistic I would take it a step further in the sense that I could save the system a lot of money, no reason to sit on death row for decades or spending taxpayer money on a death cocktail, just a chair, a knife, and a few minutes of their time.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
The key word, was IF.

The issue with psychology is that it's not exactly pure science. And it suggests a probability which I can agree that there's a high probability of truth to this matter.

However, IMO, if could help any families of victims then I'm fine if its at the expense of the criminals. They've lost their freedom because of their crimes so this is an extension of that.
A counterpoint... imagine that the condemned person is later found to have been innocent? The justice system we have isn't 100% accurate, so it happens. How's that going to effect the psychological health of the family member who "threw the switch"? There's also the small matter of becoming a target themselves, of retribution or public backlash.

The fallibility of the justice system is the basis for my opposition to the death penalty, but if we MUST practice it, better the state do the executing rather than individuals personally involved in the matter. For hundreds of years, executions have been conducted by, at least nominally, anonymous executioners, and there is a reason for that.

I know that race to the bottom, armchair Laura Norder types love puffing themselves up and proudly declaring "well I'd be happy to throw the switch!" I've actually killed people, though, and the reality is somewhat different. I was all gung ho about getting into it, based on the information available at the time, but the actual act of what I did eats at me, and in the light of information that has since come out, I don't even have the consolation of telling myself I was on the "right" side. My recurring nightmare is about a killing I didn't commit, nor even explicitly order. I gave a lawful command that resulted in what was determined to be an accidental killing, and THAT is the reason I've only had about 2 decent nights' sleep a week for the last 15 years.

So, based on personal experience, and general concerns based on my understanding of psychology, bloodthirsty revenge fantasies of comfortable middle class Westerners aside, no, I don't think it's a good idea.
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
Forgetting for a moment that I dont believe in anything like a 'pure' science, I've never seen a situation where revenge was helpful treatment, certainly not by psychologists and psychiatrists. Closure doesnt come from external sources. It comes from you reaching acceptance. If you're actively allowing your wellbeing to be based on the outcomes beyond your control you will perpetually be in an emotionally unhealthy space.

And further, it goes against everything our justice system is about. Justice being 'blind,' using a detached rationality to weigh cases and their outcome. If we had no empathy towards criminals we wouldn't strive for living conditions to have standards or make cruel and unusual punishments illegal. Our legal system certainly isnt pure, either, and adding a bunch of emotional baggage won't help the amount of false convictions and false executions or botched executions.

Purely subjective opinions which you're entitled to. Thanks
 

suncowiam

Well-Known Member
A counterpoint... imagine that the condemned person is later found to have been innocent? The justice system we have isn't 100% accurate, so it happens. How's that going to effect the psychological health of the family member who "threw the switch"? There's also the small matter of becoming a target themselves, of retribution or public backlash.

The fallibility of the justice system is the basis for my opposition to the death penalty, but if we MUST practice it, better the state do the executing rather than individuals personally involved in the matter. For hundreds of years, executions have been conducted by, at least nominally, anonymous executioners, and there is a reason for that.

I know that race to the bottom, armchair Laura Norder types love puffing themselves up and proudly declaring "well I'd be happy to throw the switch!" I've actually killed people, though, and the reality is somewhat different. I was all gung ho about getting into it, based on the information available at the time, but the actual act of what I did eats at me, and in the light of information that has since come out, I don't even have the consolation of telling myself I was on the "right" side. My recurring nightmare is about a killing I didn't commit, nor even explicitly order. I gave a lawful command that resulted in what was determined to be an accidental killing, and THAT is the reason I've only had about 2 decent nights' sleep a week for the last 15 years.

So, based on personal experience, and general concerns based on my understanding of psychology, bloodthirsty revenge fantasies of comfortable middle class Westerners aside, no, I don't think it's a good idea.

There are cases built on circumstantial evidence and then there are cases that are irrefutable. I agree with some of your notion but the cases that are absolute should continue forward with the full extent of punishment allowed by the laws.
 
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