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Sell Your Possessions and Properties

Or you are in error, confusing the church with the nation of Israel. There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, in the church, but the church does not replace Israel, nor inherit the promises God made to Israel.

"The important distinction between Jews and Gentiles is maintained consistently throughout the Bible: "...so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth" (Ex 33:16); "...for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people that ye should be mine" (Lev:20:26); "And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his...own people for ever" (1 Chr:17:21-22 ); "...ye [Gentiles] were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God..." (Eph:2:12).


After the Cross a new entity came into existence—the church that Jesus Christ promised He would build (Mt 16:18). As a result, there are now three divisions of mankind: Jews, Gentiles and the church. Paul tells us that we are to "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God" (1 Cor:10:32). It is absolutely essential to understand that these three groups exist side by side in today's world, to distinguish between them, and to recognize that God deals with each differently.


Essential also is an understanding that the church was created through offering to both Jews and Gentiles a "new covenant" relationship with God. This did not bring Gentiles under the Jewish Mosaic law (as some erroneously teach), but delivered from it those coming into the church, both Jews and Gentiles. Paul explains that Gentiles who were "aliens ...of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise" have been "made nigh [to God] by the blood of Christ" (Eph:2:13).God has "broken down the middle wall of partition between [Jew and Gentile]; having abolished in his flesh the [Mosaic] law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain [Jew and Gentile] one new man" (Eph:2:11-22 ).


These scriptures (and many others) make it clear that the church did not replace Israel, but came into existence as a new and third entity comprised of both Jews and Gentiles and distinct from each. As surely as Gentiles continue to exist outside the church, so does Israel, with all of God's promises and plans for her remaining in full force. God also has unique plans for the church, differing from those for either Israel or the Gentile nations."

"Those who teach that the church is Israel go on to claim that the church is heir to all of the promises given to Israel. This is as ludicrous as claiming that "the land of Israel" is now "the land of the church." Clearly the church has no relationship to the land God gave to Israel. Hear God's promise: "...though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee...He that scattered Israel will gather him...they shall come and sing in the height of Zion...they shall not sorrow any more at all" (Jer:30:10-11 ; 31:3-14; etc.)"


Jews, Gentiles, and the Church

The Gentiles ARE now also the people of Israel, because the tribes of Israel were scattered among the nations in previous exiles and captivities, both the house of Israel and the house of Judah, through which now the Gentiles are also considered "Israel", why do you think the epistles are sometimes addressed to "the twelve tribes of Israel in the dispersion"? Even the prophets declare, "you who follow after righteousness, look up to Abraham your father, and Sarah your mother" or that "those who believe are sons of Abraham" or "I have come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel". The new Israel will become a mixture of Jews and also Gentiles that are "grafted in" into the cultivated olive tree, which is Israel, 144,000 chosen, which will become the glorified Israel at the second coming of the Messiah.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
The Gentiles ARE now also the people of Israel, because the tribes of Israel were scattered among the nations in previous exiles and captivities, both the house of Israel and the house of Judah, through which now the Gentiles are also considered "Israel", why do you think the epistles are sometimes addressed to "the twelve tribes of Israel in the dispersion"? Even the prophets declare, "you who follow after righteousness, look up to Abraham your father, and Sarah your mother" or that "those who believe are sons of Abraham" or "I have come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel". The new Israel will become a mixture of Jews and also Gentiles that are "grafted in" into the cultivated olive tree, which is Israel, 144,000 chosen, which will become the glorified Israel at the second coming of the Messiah.

I disagree and in no way believe the scriptures ever teach replacement theology or that Gentiles are also the people of Israel. I really think such teaching is anti-Semetic. The church/the Body of Christ alone is the entity where Jew and Gentile become one in Christ....not the nation of Israel. The scriptures always show the distinction between the church and Israel and God's specific purpose and promises for His chosen people and the nation Israel..which do not apply to the church or Gentiles. The epistle which is addressed to the twelve tribes, and I believe it is only James, is because he sent it to Jewish believers in Christ of the twelve tribes who were scattered among the nations at the time. The 144,000 are specifically listed as being from the ethnic tribes of Israel, not a mixture of Jews and Gentiles.

"Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate."
Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel?
 
I disagree and in no way believe the scriptures ever teach replacement theology or that Gentiles are also the people of Israel. I really think such teaching is anti-Semetic. The church/the Body of Christ alone is the entity where Jew and Gentile become one in Christ....not the nation of Israel. The scriptures always show the distinction between the church and Israel and God's specific purpose and promises for His chosen people and the nation Israel..which do not apply to the church or Gentiles. The epistle which is addressed to the twelve tribes, and I believe it is only James, is because he sent it to Jewish believers in Christ of the twelve tribes who were scattered among the nations at the time. The 144,000 are specifically listed as being from the ethnic tribes of Israel, not a mixture of Jews and Gentiles.

"Promises made to Israel are still going to be kept in the future. We can be sure that all God has said is true and will take place, because of His character and consistency. The Church does not replace Israel and should not expect a symbolic fulfillment of the promises of the Old Covenant As one reads Scripture, it is necessary to keep Israel and the Church separate."
Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel?

Not only do the scriptures teach that the Gentiles are grafted in, but the scriptures also speak of the trampling of the people of Israel outside Jerusalem. Who do you suppose the grapes of wrath are that are trampled outside the city with blood flowing to 1,600 stadia and up to a horse's bridle? These are the people of Israel, which Isaiah identifies as the vine of God, who because of their disobedience and disbelief in the Messiah, will be trampled outside Jerusalem, whereas the Gentiles who believed, and also the Jews who believed, will become the people of Israel, newly glorified, and immortal, all at the second coming of the Messiah. Why is this so difficult to believe, if this is what the scriptures teach? If it were up to me I would have everyone be delivered, but this is not the truth, God has chosen very few to be his people.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Not only do the scriptures teach that the Gentiles are grafted in, but the scriptures also speak of the trampling of the people of Israel outside Jerusalem. Who do you suppose the grapes of wrath are that are trampled outside the city with blood flowing to 1,600 stadia and up to a horse's bridle? These are the people of Israel, which Isaiah identifies as the vine of God, who because of their disobedience and disbelief in the Messiah, will be trampled outside Jerusalem, whereas the Gentiles who believed, and also the Jews who believed, will become the people of Israel, newly glorified, and immortal, all at the second coming of the Messiah. Why is this so difficult to believe, if this is what the scriptures teach? If it were up to me I would have everyone be delivered, but this is not the truth, God has chosen very few to be his people.
I am not denying that Gentiles are grafted in to the olive tree. I simply believe you are not interpreting this correctly when you indicate that you believe God is finished with the nation of Israel, rather than what Paul is saying that the Gentiles now share in the promises of God with regard to salvation through the Messiah, as Christ is building His church during this church age. This does not negate the covenant promises God made with Israel, which are irrevocable , as Paul states and shows that God again will deal with Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete...

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:25-32

Also in Revelation 14 it says that ...
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Rev. 14:6-11

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. Rev. 14:15-16


So the grapes of wrath blood refers to everyone on the earth who receives the mark and is opposed to God, not Jews alone.


What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place?
 
I am not denying that Gentiles are grafted in to the olive tree. I simply believe you are not interpreting this correctly when you indicate that you believe God is finished with the nation of Israel, rather than what Paul is saying that the Gentiles now share in the promises of God with regard to salvation through the Messiah, as Christ is building His church during this church age. This does not negate the covenant promises God made with Israel, which are irrevocable , as Paul states and shows that God again will deal with Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles is complete...

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. Romans 11:25-32

Also in Revelation 14 it says that ...
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”

8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”


9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Rev. 14:6-11

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped. Rev. 14:15-16


So the grapes of wrath blood refers to everyone on the earth who receives the mark and is opposed to God, not Jews alone.


What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place?

The grapes of wrath are not everyone on earth, because most everyone on earth will be thrown into the lake of lava, which is a another distinct punishment. God is not done with Israel, because Israel are his people, which is why Israel will be reduced down to only those who believed, whether the Gentiles who believed who descended from Abraham from the dispersion of the tribes of Israel, or Jews who believed, and this will become the newly glorified Israel, righteous, and set-apart. This is why it is written, "though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be delivered" and "the sons of the kingdom will be cast out".
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
All believers are called to sell their possessions and properties. Read this bible study on why this is so, and why this mandate has not changed, Sell Your Possessions and Properties | Wisdom of God .

*EDIT*

Jesus was mainly talking to rich people. And he was talking voluntarism.

If a person who makes $1000 a day gives $500 (and somehow taxes don't screw him over), they are being generous.
If a person makes $100 a month, they can probably spend $1-$5 a week.

If you have little means and starving children, this is not being generous. Your first duty is to your family.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Jesus was mainly talking to rich people. And he was talking voluntarism.

If a person who makes $1000 a day gives $500 (and somehow taxes don't screw him over), they are being generous.
If a person makes $100 a month, they can probably spend $1-$5 a week.

If you have little means and starving children, this is not being generous. Your first duty is to your family.

I do not believe you can compare today's standards and society to the times of Jesus ans his appeal to material things. It is clear that not many did follow this, and for the most part except for monastic communities Christians live normal lives.

It is possible that in the theme of the rest of the NT and Paul's statements that this was an appeal related to expect apocalypse ending of the world, or an appeal for world of an ascetic communal lifestyle like that at Qumran.
 
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