• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Your thoughts on Cuomo's reproductive health act?

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
The only restriction is there are no real restrictions.
The Reproductive Health Act of Horror: The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits

"New York has legalized abortion up to birth, and beyond. It is now legal to neglect, choke, or smother a baby that somehow survived the lethal injection and knife cuts designed to kill during the abortion procedure."

Tragic


They say this isn't a baby... what are they thinking?

Putting aside the appeals to emotion, this is what the law actually says:

From the article said:
On the 46th anniversary of the landmark US ruling that made abortion legal, New York state signed into law a new abortion rights bill. Why is it so controversial?

The Reproductive Health Act (RHA) has been seen by some as a necessary move to safeguard abortion rights should the Supreme Court overturn the ruling, known as Roe v Wade.

And it comes at a time when states such as Mississippi, Iowa and Ohio are rolling back abortion provisions.

While others see it as an "extreme" and "inhumane" expansion of abortion access.

The act removes the need for a doctor to perform some abortions and takes abortion out of the criminal code, making it a public health issue.

However, the most controversial aspect of the RHA is the provision allowing abortions after 24 weeks in cases where there is an "absence of foetal viability, or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient's life or health".

Source and complete article: Why are people talking about NY's abortion law?

In other words, the only two cases where a late-term abortion would be allowed would be where

1) The mother's life was endangered, and

2) The fetus wouldn't survive outside the womb anyway.

By the way, OP, your source is called "desiringgod.org." That is conspicuously biased, something that is compounded by the fact that the viability of fetuses and precisely when they are able to survive outside the womb are also topics that heavily tread into a medical and scientific territory—not a theological or dogmatic one.

For further reading, here's a Snopes article detailing the false rumors—mostly from conservatives—about the law compared to what it actually states:

FACT CHECK: Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth?
 
Last edited:

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Putting aside the appeals to emotion, this is what the law actually says:



Source and complete article: Why are people talking about NY's abortion law?

In other words, the only two cases where a late-term abortion would be allowed would be where

1) The mother's life was endangered, and

2) The fetus wouldn't survive outside the womb anyway.

By the way, OP, your source is called "desiringgod.org." That is conspicuously biased, something that is compounded by the fact that the viability of fetuses and precisely when they are able to survive outside the womb are also topics that heavily tread into a medical and scientific territory—not a theological or dogmatic one.

For further reading, here's a Snopes article detailing the false rumors—mostly from conservatives—about the law compared to what it actually states:

FACT CHECK: Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth?
Kudos @Debater Slayer , you have truly lived up to your namesake.
Thread closed.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Talk about "The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits," the reprehensible the subtitle of the Desiring God article, which itself is no less reprehensible.

Here's how the pertinent part of the bill reads


N Y abortion law change.png
source


Note that the abortion cannot take place

1) later than the 24th week of pregnancy OR
2) unless there's an absence of fetal viability Or
3) unless it's necessary to protect the patient's life or health.​

My advice, whirlingmerc, is to check out your sources and stay away from places like Desiring God.

.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The only restriction is there are no real restrictions.
The Reproductive Health Act of Horror: The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits

"New York has legalized abortion up to birth, and beyond. It is now legal to neglect, choke, or smother a baby that somehow survived the lethal injection and knife cuts designed to kill during the abortion procedure."

Tragic
How does 'beyond' fit in here?

The piece is incredibly sensationalistic it doesn't accurately reflect the reasons made for late term abortions.

Any abortion is tragic. The bill covers the rarest cases that barely go past 1% and are hard and painful life-and-death decisions.

It's funny you use the religious websites for this when God in the eyes of its believers could be considered the largest abortion provider including late term abortions.

Think miscarriages and stillborns to put things in proper perspective. So it becomes highly hypocritical when your own God is a huge abortion provider in his own right through the lens of those that believe in the biblical god.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Saving the lives of mothers whose health is in danger sounds terrible? Of course for us men, it's not a risk we even have to take, ever. Before modern medicine lots of women died of complications from things that are handled today by these horrors.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Why would I even consider believing anything from a website called desiregod.com?
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
How does 'beyond' fit in here?

The piece is incredibly sensationalistic it doesn't accurately reflect the reasons made for late term abortions.

Any abortion is tragic. The bill covers the rarest cases that barely go past 1% and are hard and painful life-and-death decisions.

It's funny you use the religious websites for this when God in the eyes of its believers could be considered the largest abortion provider including late term abortions.

Think miscarriages and stillborns to put things in proper perspective. So it becomes highly hypocritical when your own God is a huge abortion provider in his own right through the lens of those that believe in the biblical god.


Beyond comes in based on the comments of Cuomo and the Viriginia governor. The Virginia governor spoke of 'the woman' having a discussion with the doctor after a birth and deciding whether to let it live

Additionally on the face of it the law speaks of 24 weeks but Cuomo's law drops all restrictions and crimes such as harming a woman and causing a miscarriage is no longer a felony, no parental controls and it is already de facto law that with the exceptions given those mean abortion through the full 9 months for any reason and funded by the goverment

The Reproductive Health Act of Horror: The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits
" This law legalizes abortion in New York throughout all nine months of pregnancy, even up to dilation. It repeals the safeguard requiring all abortions be performed by a licensed physician. It decriminalizes all state abortion laws, and it removes all rights and protections from the unborn by defining a “person” as “a human being who has been born and is alive.” Even this definition, however, is revoked for the child who is accidentally born alive."
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Talk about "The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits," the reprehensible the subtitle of the Desiring God article, which itself is no less reprehensible.

Here's how the pertinent part of the bill reads




Note that the abortion cannot take place

1) later than the 24th week of pregnancy OR
2) unless there's an absence of fetal viability Or
3) unless it's necessary to protect the patient's life or health.​

My advice, whirlingmerc, is to check out your sources and stay away from places like Desiring God.

.

The reality the exceptions listed allow an abortion through the full nine months for any reasons and paid for by the government

And even if a baby is born alive as sometimes happens, penalties dropped if the abortionist kills the live baby.
That makes Coumo's bill tragic

All protections of an unborn dropped even is the unborn somehow is born alive
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Putting aside the appeals to emotion, this is what the law actually says:



Source and complete article: Why are people talking about NY's abortion law?

In other words, the only two cases where a late-term abortion would be allowed would be where

1) The mother's life was endangered, and

2) The fetus wouldn't survive outside the womb anyway.

By the way, OP, your source is called "desiringgod.org." That is conspicuously biased, something that is compounded by the fact that the viability of fetuses and precisely when they are able to survive outside the womb are also topics that heavily tread into a medical and scientific territory—not a theological or dogmatic one.

For further reading, here's a Snopes article detailing the false rumors—mostly from conservatives—about the law compared to what it actually states:

FACT CHECK: Did New York Pass a Bill Legalizing Abortions Up to Birth?
Yes, putting aside emotions of a baby being terminated at 9 months or after birth...

It says: Furthermore, the legislature declares that it is the public policy of 15 New York State that every individual possesses a fundamental right of 16 privacy and equality with respect to their personal reproductive deci- 17 sions and should be able to safely effectuate those decisions, including 18 by seeking and obtaining abortion care, free from discrimination in the 19 provision of health care

Loop hole... if it is private, you never know why it was done...

It says "amended" :§ 6. Section 125.00 of the penal law is amended to read as follows: 6 § 125.00 Homicide defined. 7 Homicide means conduct which causes the death of a person [or an 8 unborn child with which a female has been pregnant for more than twen- 9 ty-four weeks] under circumstances constituting murder, manslaughter in 10 the first degree, manslaughter in the second degree, OR criminally 11 negligent homicide[, abortion in the first degree or self-abortion in 12 the first degree]. ...
...
DEFINITION. 17 The following [definitions are] DEFINITION IS applicable to this arti- 18 cle: 19 [1.] "Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a 20 human being who has been born and is alive.

So... it is 9 months, in the womb and not matter what you do with it, it isn't a homicide. For that matter, if a husband decides he doesn't want to have the baby, and the mother does, and he kicks the womb until the baby dies (please look at the video... a baby), the most he can be charged with is assault.

Then, of course, we remember when we first placed the abortion law "when the mother is in danger" and look at it now.

It is easy to come to the conclusion that this is just the beginning especially if you can make the baby comfortable while alive and then decide to kill it. It is a pandora box.

Please tell this person, "You should have been aborted at 9 months"



He now is married and I believe is having children.
 
Last edited:

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The reality the exceptions listed allow an abortion through the full nine months for any reasons and paid for by the government

And even if a baby is born alive as sometimes happens, penalties dropped if the abortionist kills the live baby.
That makes Coumo's bill tragic

All protections of an unborn dropped even is the unborn somehow is born alive
No. Only if mother's health is endangered, or the foetus is not viable, as determined by the doctors. Clearly and unambiguously stated. You are willfully distorting the bill.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
No. Only if mother's health is endangered, or the foetus is not viable, as determined by the doctors. Clearly and unambiguously stated. You are willfully distorting the bill.

As the Washington Examiner says, "even in legal lingo, protecting the patient’s health could mean almost anything." that means effectively the full 9 months even while giving birth and as the Governor of Virginia spoke of a baby born alive not being resuscitated and Coumo's bill drops protections for babies born alive after an abortion which happens sometime, sadly.

It has many problematic features for example if a fetus died as the result of an assault on a woman there would be no prosecution. “Being assaulted and losing your baby is not a woman’s choice", said State Assembly Rep. Nicole Malliotakis
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
As the Washington Examiner says, "even in legal lingo, protecting the patient’s health could mean almost anything." that means effectively the full 9 months even while giving birth and as the Governor of Virginia spoke of a baby born alive not being resuscitated and Coumo's bill drops protections for babies born alive after an abortion which happens sometime, sadly.

It has many problematic features for example if a fetus died as the result of an assault on a woman there would be no prosecution. “Being assaulted and losing your baby is not a woman’s choice", said State Assembly Rep. Nicole Malliotakis
I don't care what the Washington examiner says.
Please provide actual excerpts from the actual bill and then we shall discuss.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
No. Only if mother's health is endangered, or the foetus is not viable, as determined by the doctors. Clearly and unambiguously stated. You are willfully distorting the bill.
not really!

I am reminded of a friend, twins in the womb and multiple doctors saying... "Either one will die or both will die, you MUST have one aborted!"

Pressure to now end and although on the outside she showed happiness, the pressure of MULTIPLE doctors put fear in her life that was almost impossible to bear. But she still said "no".

36 months later, a 2 1/2 lb baby and a 4 1/2 baby were born and now, and today after 2 1/2 years, she is so happy she didn't listen.

To have a baby full term and then eradicate is still wrong.

For those (like my sister), who have experienced abortion you can find love and acceptance by God. It is a horrible thing to go through and my heart goes out to all.

As one who went through two miscarriages (natural) it is no less difficult.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Talk about "The Lies Behind Abortion Without Limits," the reprehensible the subtitle of the Desiring God article, which itself is no less reprehensible.

Here's how the pertinent part of the bill reads




Note that the abortion cannot take place

1) later than the 24th week of pregnancy OR
2) unless there's an absence of fetal viability Or
3) unless it's necessary to protect the patient's life or health.​

My advice, whirlingmerc, is to check out your sources and stay away from places like Desiring God.

.

DEFINITION. 17 The following [definitions are] DEFINITION IS applicable to this arti- 18 cle: 19 [1.] "Person," when referring to the victim of a homicide, means a 20 human being who has been born and is alive.

Or, in other words, it doesn't matter what you do, it isn't human anyway.


Health of a patients life has been and will continue to include "mental health" or "emotional health" or whatever else you want to make it to say.

So.... "no" :rolleyes:
 
Top