• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Reminder: Trump Not Christian

Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
To me, the unwavering support of Trump from evangelical Christians is similar to the story of the temptation of Christ. When Satan took Jesus to the top of a mountain, he made the basic offer to exchange political power for his soul.

Luke 4:5 And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, 6 and said to him, “To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 And Jesus answered him, “It is written,“‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”​

Trump's candidacy presented a similar offer to evangelicals....excuse and/or turn a blind eye to the greed, womanizing, adultery, racism, and lying, and in exchange your political wishes will be granted (conservative judges, pro-Israel policy, etc).

But it looks like a stereotypical deal with the devil....evangelicals' vocal support of Trump has cost them their moral authority to speak on many issues.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
sealchan said:
I do. I will share it in brief here...

When I was about 20 years old I was a default atheist with a deep criticism of church history picked up from public school education about European history and from what Carl Sagan elegantly described in his Cosmos TV series. My parents were not church going people and professed no certain opinion on the matter. I was a archetypal nerd who had been dumped by my first girlfriend about a year and a half previously and I was still in a mild, persistent depression.

One day in the summer after my second year of college, I was in my room and I felt the compulsion to complain to God, to whom I have never seriously spoken, about how unfair it was that the person I loved (and couldn't get over) didn't love me back. I got angry at God, I held Him responsible for the quality of the world and resolved to undertake my own effort to make it a better world. I began to rewrite the first chapter of the book of Genesis in terms that I had picked up from required courses in theology and philosophy and my own imagination. I wrote for hours...I still have that writing on stationary. At the end of that day I felt that my depression had lifted and it had.

About a year later I had a dream in which I knew that God was approaching me as a malevolent figure. I had to choose my secret name before he reached my bedroom door or I would be doomed. I remembered a name I came up with in association with the writings I had previously done and suddenly all the darkness and fear and doom in the dream gave way to an ecstatic, operatic music and my voice was like some great opera singer's and i was filled with emotion.

Those are the two particular experiences I had that highlight how I felt that I have encountered God as something I didn't intend and that showed me that religious experiences are real phenomenon and that they bring meaning to one's life.

Not too long ago I was in the midst of my many years long detailed study of Genesis when I realized in studying the experience of Abraham and God that this story shared many similarities with my own. I did an informal study on another forum where I asked people to share their own experiences of God in dreams and I found a remarkable similarity in a set of similar motifs shared with my own experience and that of Abram/Abraham as described in the Bible.

Other threads weave into this but the most significant is, perhaps, my life long love of myth. Several years ago I read a literary analysts' translation of the "David story" and I realized what great art went into the crafting of the story. What seemed clumsy and "ancient" writing suddenly became subtle and profound and I realize a new inspiration to study the Bible.

Anyway thank you for asking and for allowing me the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is.

Back to the thread!
Click to expand...

That is an interesting supernatural experience for sure and I thank you for sharing. Certainly, as a Christian, I would wonder about some of the points, but it isn't my desire to do so.

Again, thank you for sharing.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
sealchan said:
The President of the United States is also to be a representative of the moral character of our nation. He has so profoundly failed in this that it is distressing the very soul of this nation IMO. Anyone who is in a position of moral example who fails to acknowledge this has so deeply tarnished their credibility that they may find it to hard to recover that credibility IMO.

I also think that it is very likely that for Trump he will suffer the fate described in Matthew 7:24-27.

Again, we all make mistakes and we all have our faults. But when you profess to be the voice of others and yet you do not show the most basic moral competencies in that regard, is it not justice when the rain should fall, the streams rise and the winds blow that the house come crashing down.
Click to expand...

Ok... but I don't see where the video addressed any of that.

In reference to your statement, God didn't want Israel to have a king but they asked for one anyway. God gave it to them and set him up, so to speak. But that didn't translate that he was a good king or even a moral king.

As I view it, whether he is the moral example or not (which so many of our presidents were not), scripture still says to pray for them and lift them up. It didn't say "criticize them" but rather pray for them. As a matter of fact, Paul reminded himself of that fact:

Acts 23:5
Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, :"Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people."

So, hopefully, I try to exemplify that whether Democrat or Republican.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
sealchan said:
If you are not a Christian then this may be reasonable and fair.
Click to expand...
There are many Christian sects that consider other Christian sects to not be Christian. How can anyone tell which is and which is not Real Christianity.



sealchan said:
But even so, you should not, in your heart, trust in a person's claim until you have heard their story. It is when they say, "I am a Christian" and this is supposed to convince you of something that you should use your judgment.
Click to expand...

My judgment is that, since Christians cannot decide who is and who is not Christian, I will take all of them at their word.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
ecco said:
There are many Christian sects that consider other Christian sects to not be Christian. How can anyone tell which is and which is not Real Christianity.





My judgment is that, since Christians cannot decide who is and who is not Christian, I will take all of them at their word.
Click to expand...

Good point.

You as with anyone else, has some responsibility for making your own determination as to the sincerity, coherence or honesty of anyone's statements about facts or beliefs. Without even having to come up with a litmus test one can perceive such things entirely from a person's own ability to demonstrate with supporting evidence the depth of the impact of their faith or even understanding of it on their lives.

If religion is to be defined merely as a list of qualifying beliefs that a person has, then identifying with a religion is a pretty weak indicator about a person.
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
KenS said:
Ok... but I don't see where the video addressed any of that.

In reference to your statement, God didn't want Israel to have a king but they asked for one anyway. God gave it to them and set him up, so to speak. But that didn't translate that he was a good king or even a moral king.

As I view it, whether he is the moral example or not (which so many of our presidents were not), scripture still says to pray for them and lift them up. It didn't say "criticize them" but rather pray for them. As a matter of fact, Paul reminded himself of that fact:

Acts 23:5
Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, :"Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people."

So, hopefully, I try to exemplify that whether Democrat or Republican.
Click to expand...

The video commentator ends with a list of moral qualities that Trump does not have nor cares to have. This is not based on an understanding of his political views or even those of his party. This is based on his own words and the character of his actions independent of his espoused political beliefs.

How is the video not calling out Trumps moral character? I think I will check my link...
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Yep...the link is correct.

Any objective reading of Jesus' teachings makes Trump's actions, independent of his political views, so clearly against the moral grain of those teachings that for anyone to look at Trump as a representative of the interests of their faith without launching into a huge apologetic statement about how such representation is merely political expediency and not meant to indicate the Trump is a good example of Christian character would be, as a representative of Christianity, be doing Christians a huge disservice IMO.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
sealchan said:
You as with anyone else, has some responsibility for making your own determination as to the sincerity, coherence or honesty of anyone's statements about facts or beliefs.
Click to expand...
Yes and no.

If someone says he is an honest person, then yes, I can determine if that is true. If he continuously lies, then I know he is not an honest person.

If someone says he is an ethical person, then yes, I can determine if that is true. If he has extramarital affairs and denigrates other people, then I know he is not an ethical person.

If someone says he is a Christian, then no, I cannot determine if I should consider that to be true or false. There is much history of people who consider themselves to be Christians and are considered to be Christian by other Christians, doing horrible things "in the name of God". Contrarywise, there are many people who lead generally good lives but are affiliated with a sect that many other Christians say are not really Christian.

This is why I accept people at their word. If good and bad actions, and the opinions of other Christians, are not a basis, then I have nothing to use as a guide.



sealchan said:
Without even having to come up with a litmus test one can perceive such things entirely from a person's own ability to demonstrate with supporting evidence the depth of the impact of their faith or even understanding of it on their lives.

If religion is to be defined merely as a list of qualifying beliefs that a person has, then identifying with a religion is a pretty weak indicator about a person.
Click to expand...

Many Good Christians owned slaves. Many Good Christians were members of the KKK. Many Good Christians supported the inquisitions. Many Good Christians supported the witch hunts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top