The Symbolism of Bread and Wine

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Bread had become a commoners food by that time. In Pompeii they found a preserved bread that survived for almost 2000 years containing:

• 400g biga acida (sourdough)
• 12g yeast
• 18g gluten
• 24g salt
• 532g water
• 405g spelt flour
• 405g wholemeal flour

So as we can see a bread isn't somethng that is just any food, but a product of cultivating land effectively and requires a bit more knowledge to bake than more traditional foods. So bread is not a natural food, but one result of time and hard work, putting in the effort. Is it coming from "heavenly effort" for free (perhaps like to slaves of Romans as "payment", something many would understand at the time) or does one need ones own efforts to cultivate the soil, and so on before one finds God or experiences "eternity"? The answer becomes different from different perspectives.

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

I wish I had more references at the moment. Bread means life. In the OT, the Isrealites were fed physically, the bread itself, and spiritually, the bread/life from god. Bread/life was given to all around the Lord's Table in that he was giving each person a part of himself as a symbol of his future Crucifixion. Last Supper.

OT actual bread was a symbol of life from god
NT once christ died, he became the bread of life from god

They both saved just now believers are saved by the spirit rather than physical sacrifice

Unveiled Artist said:

I wish I had more references at the moment. Bread means life. In the OT, the Isrealites were fed physically, the bread itself, and spiritually, the bread/life from god. Bread/life was given to all around the Lord's Table in that he was giving each person a part of himself as a symbol of his future Crucifixion. Last Supper.

OT actual bread was a symbol of life from god
NT once christ died, he became the bread of life from god

They both saved just now believers are saved by the spirit rather than physical sacrifice

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I'm almost too reluctant to participate in this because I am not qualified. My thoughts turn to the last supper, where he describes the ritual and its purpose.

adrian009 said:

John 6:50

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If we wish to be logical, then the Synoptic Gospels have a totally different account of the Last Supper, with John purposely adding loads of faulty statements to defile it...

So we have multiple questions that need to be taken into account in a careful dissection.

adrian009 said:

What is the meaning of this utterance?

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The meaning of what John's Pharisaic expectations are presenting, is that jesus was claiming that the bread at the Last Supper was a form of the Manna in the Wilderness; which the Gospel of John reemphasizes that jesus said "I Am the bread of life, who ever eats me has eternal life".

adrian009 said:

What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

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The real meaning of the Last Supper is an Essene Passover Meal, where there was no Lamb slaughtered in them either, as God doesn't want sacrifice according to the prophets...

Where Yeshua is leaving it open for the Pharisees to make up their own texts, and fulfill Ezekiel 4 & 5 where the Second temple is destroyed, and the Diaspora happens because they've exchanged animal for man, and so their bread is turned into human poo cakes, & their drink into urine, with a defiled broken covenant as Zechariah 11 stipulated; where they've ignored it as prophesied, as their leaders are worthless.

Bread

There are many aspects in the Bread that are Kosher, and Yeshua said to share Bread in remembrance like the Essenes already did with Sprouted Bread...

This is symbolic in Essene poetry, that everything is given by God, and we bring in the Harvest together, then share in it together in Oneness.

It is not that we eat the flesh, otherwise we fulfill "where the body is, there the vultures gather (Luke 17:37)", to be thrown into the lake of fire (Isaiah 34) for being ravenous.

Wine

The blood of Christ is spilled on the floor according to the Synoptic Gospels, and Yeshua in Greek tells the disciples to no longer drink of the vine, where they've badly translated it to match Paul's Holy Communion...

If Yeshua is seen as a form of atonement, the blood or wine is not drunk else it would defile the Levitical Law; Paul knew this, and yet still purposefully taught Gentiles do something similar to vampirism, so they've defiled the Law knowingly (Revelation 16:6).

In my opinion.

Ellen Brown said:

I'm almost too reluctant to participate in this because I am not qualified. My thoughts turn to the last supper, where he describes the ritual and its purpose.

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I'm not qualified either. Its simply an opportunity for us all to reflect and learn together.

One of the most important places the bread is mentioned is the last supper which you rightly allude to.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Matthew 26:26-29

So Jesus identifies bread and wine with His own exalted Being.

So the ... bread signifies the heavenly food and divine perfections. So, “If any man eateth of this bread” means if any man acquires heavenly bounty, receives the divine light, or partakes of Christ’s perfections, he thereby gains everlasting life. The blood also signifies the spirit of life and the divine perfections, the lordly splendor and eternal bounty. For all the members of the body gain vital substance from the circulation of the blood.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 97-99

Ellen Brown said:

I'm almost too reluctant to participate in this because I am not qualified. My thoughts turn to the last supper, where he describes the ritual and its purpose.

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Yeah. I used to be protestant and practiced/studied most my preteen. I left, went into the Church and got more of a spiritual/personal rather than academic point of view. That's why I don't quite scriptures mainly. Cause the connections make sense regardless the belief.

Some discussions I don't post in either. Sometimes I wish I could but I'm not interested enough to study scripture anymore. Gave that up twenty some odd years ago.

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

This means two things
1 - we remember Jesus giving his body and the shedding of his blood for us.
2 - out partaking of it symbolizes our commitment to him, even, if necessary
to the point of suffering as he did.

adrian009 said:

I'm not qualified either. Its simply an opportunity for us all to reflect and learn together.

One of the most important places the bread is mentioned is the last supper which you rightly allude to.

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Matthew 26:26-29

So Jesus identifies bread and wine with His own exalted Being.

So the ... bread signifies the heavenly food and divine perfections. So, “If any man eateth of this bread” means if any man acquires heavenly bounty, receives the divine light, or partakes of Christ’s perfections, he thereby gains everlasting life. The blood also signifies the spirit of life and the divine perfections, the lordly splendor and eternal bounty. For all the members of the body gain vital substance from the circulation of the blood.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 97-99

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Agreed.

It is quite obvious to me that "bread" is here being used as a reference to money. The reason it is obvious to me is because I am an American -- and thus everything is ultimately a reference to money for me. Here, Christ speaks of bread in a way that seems to identify it with salvation. I would say that means he is talking about buying a penthouse apartment or a yacht -- both of which are about as close to spiritual salvation as an American can get.

Sunstone said:

It is quite obvious to me that "bread" is here being used as a reference to money. The reason it is obvious to me is because I am an American -- and thus everything is ultimately a reference to money for me. Here, Christ speaks of bread in a way that seems to identify it with salvation. I would say that means he is talking about buying a penthouse apartment or a yacht -- both of which are about as close to spiritual salvation as an American can get.

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I think you Americans have found your next profit prophet along with the New Jerusalem (the propserity gospel).

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

I believe that many stories tell of how plants exhibit the idea of the life-death-rebirth cycle. The hero or heroine sacrifices themselves and the result is new life just as the plant dies after generating new seed and putting that seed into the earth that earth resurrects the life of that plant. I believe Osiris taught mankind the art of agriculture for instance.

Bread and wine are foods which also give nourishment to our bodies. They stand in as representatives of all food and all drink. Without food and drink we would soon die. Without killing the life of the plant our lives would perish.

Bread is made from the fruit of wheat grass. Wine from the fruit of the vine. Human knowledge has produced these substances. So bread and wine stand in as the fruit of human knowledge which is consciousness as the fruit of the human body.

In sharing this substance, we share life, personal consciousness and social consciousness. We recognize the life giving value of ourselves and each other.

adrian009 said:

So Jesus identifies bread and wine with His own exalted Being.

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Does this not beg the question, how much did Jesus know?

pcarl said:

Does this not beg the question, how much did Jesus know?

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If he read the Old Testament then he would know from Jacob (ca 2000 BC)
that the nation of Israel would end with his coming, and the Gentiles would
be the ones who trusted him.
He would know from Daniel that the temple would last only till his coming.
He would know from David that his hands and feet would be pierced and
they would offer him gall to drink. And he would know from Isaiah that
he would be rejected and despised by his own people.

pcarl said:

Does this not beg the question, how much did Jesus know?

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Or it answers the question, "What did the author think?"

sealchan said:

Or it answers the question, "What did the author think?"

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We have a fair idea of what the authors were thinking. They were
thinking they wanted to write this down for posterity.
David, in speaking of the crucifixion of the Messiah, said that it
"would be told to the generations yet born that he has done this."
So I suppose the authors of the Gospels would feel they had
this mission.
A bigger question ought to be, what do others think in reading
these accounts?

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

These were ancient symbols for life itself used in the Mediterranean region. It also had and has an intrinsic value through the Hellenized concept of "essence".

PruePhillip said:

We have a fair idea of what the authors were thinking. They were
thinking they wanted to write this down for posterity.
David, in speaking of the crucifixion of the Messiah, said that it
"would be told to the generations yet born that he has done this."
So I suppose the authors of the Gospels would feel they had
this mission.
A bigger question ought to be, what do others think in reading
these accounts?

Click to expand...

I think it is important to realize that the gospels were unlikely to be eyewitness accounts on the part of the authors. They are simultaneously too similar (with literary reconfigurations) or too conflicting to be seen as simple misremembering of a shared experience.

That, at least, is what I think.

Certainly the expectation of the coming of a Messiah was important to many and so the desire to frame new spiritual perspectives based on a man's real or augmented or invented life were understandably likely to be a part of their "mission statement". Matthew, as I understand, was especially concerned to make this connection with direct literary references to scripture.

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

Ultimately it speaks of Jesus sacrifice of Himself on the cross. That's why Jesus said take eat, and then broke the bread and gave to His disciples and said this is my body. The wine is symbolic of His blood and seals the deal for the new Covenant.

adrian009 said:

Christ spoke: "This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die."
John 6:50

What is the meaning of this utterance? What is the significance of bread and wine as spoken by Christ in the Gospels?

Click to expand...

Maybe he alludes to manna the original bread from heaven. This works with the theme of his ministry I think in the gospel of John. Manna has to be gathered daily, and if you don't gather it daily you die. The original name for it is 'whatisthis?'. In chapter 3 Jesus says that the spirit goes where it wills, and you don't know where its coming from or where its going. Theoretically John also writes Revelation.

Rev 2:17 "Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it."

Now this is complicated. 'Hidden manna' ? Maybe its just referring to the fact that we don't know what manna is and that its individual. I don't know for sure, but I think Jesus is being referred to as Logos again as in the gospel of John.