Actually what God is forbidding is occult practices without his consent. The term "occult" means "hidden", so we are dealing with power, the source of which is not obvious at first glance.
I dont think it has anything to do with Gods consent, it has everything to do with motives. A right motive is what God consents too.
Saying we need Gods consent to this is like saying we need Gods consent to go for a walk around the block. In fact, i knew a lady, she told me everyday before she got dressed, shed ask God what color to wear that day. We dont need Gods consent. Its about motive.
Also i think your interpreting "hidden" knowledge different then me. Your saying the power source is hidden. I disagree. The power source in ocultism is YOU the practitioner. God gave us untapped abilities. Its an ability like any other, like the ability to run, talk, type, whatever
Whats hidden is that which is hidden to the five physical senses. Take ESP (extra sensory perceptions) as an example. What perception or knowledge one discovers using ESP or "remote viewing" is discovered by the 6th sense. Its hidden to the 5 physical senses. Hence, occult or hidden knowledge.
In this light, God himself is engaged in occult knowledge.
Since God mentioned all of those things in Deuteronomy, then that shows us what sort of practices to be careful about. All form of spiritism are forbidden. His people were entering a land that was rife with these satanic practices, so to err on the side of caution was to avoid them altogether. God appointed those who would be authorized to use his spirit....but only he would provide it.
Heres what ive noticed about some forms of traditional christianity when it comes to the occult; they have thrown the baby out with the dirty bath water in the name of siding on the side of caution. How is that any different then someone saying ill never open up my own business because theres too many bad things out there that could happen?
Its not the practices in and of themselves that God was condemning, it was the wrong use of the practices and making a contract with other gods with its use.
Let me give you an analogy. I use to work at home depot. While i was, i was working another job too. However, i was not allowed to work at another place that was LIKE home depot because of the conflict of interest.
Its the same with these practices, those practices are both methods and devoloping skills. Only God wanted his people using them for his work, not using them for other gods and there work. It would have been a conflict of interest.
Even the levitical priesthood used occult like methods, look at the urim and thumim as an example.
Necromancy is listed in the verse, which means to talk to the spirits of the dead. Well, hey, Jesus did that with Moses and Elijah. So, its not the practice in and of itself, its motive and whos contracted with.
There are only two sources of that kind of power....if God has not authorized it, it comes from the devil.....even if appears to be beneficial.
No, thats simply not true. Theres God, the devil and then there is YOU. God does not have to authorize it, God has already designed these abilities within people. The devil does not need to do it either. People have the abilities. If you research remote viewing it will show you this. I know theres some people out there who think remote viewing is nonsense, but those people are ignorant. The research has shown hits above chance. Even sceptics that wer a part of the work admitted an anomaly.
Yes, God and the devil can do things. But, so can humans.
Its got nothing to do with motivations....it's got to do with the source of the power and our obedience to God's commands. (Proverbs 3:5-6)
I dont agree. If you study the bible long enough, you see rather quickly that motives play a big role in what God judges verses what he passes over. The same thing can be committed, yet in one instence God judges it, while another he gives it no thought.
If the devil can portray himself as "an angel of light", then how will people know that they are tapping into the wrong power? How does satan get away with deceiving people if not using his power in a deceptive way? He can make it appear to come from God....making something evil look like something good.
Yea, i understand your concern there. The bible sets up a test. It says "test the spirits" it also says "test (or prove) all things". It also says the "fruits of the Holy Spirit are love, joy, peace, ect". Jesus said "youl know by the fruit". Also "God is not a God of confusion but of peace".
In other words, satan cannot give love, joy or peace.
Also, if your doing the practice and you get results, thats YOU. That shows you have tapped the ability.
How do you think those rejected by Jesus can claim to have 'prophesied, expelled demons and performed powerful works in Jesus name', if the power they used was from God?
You gotta be very careful when you interprete the bible. Jesus also said to his disciples when they told him about a man casting out demons in his name and they tried to stop him; Jesus said "no one who casts out a demon in my name can say anything bad about me."
Also he said "if satan cast out satan, his kingdom is devided and will not stand"
The key is this: to love. It sounds so simple and cleshay, but thats what matters. Some people will do all these powerful things, but not love, therefore God will judge them for that.
Look at balaam as an example. He had an ability. It was not from satan. In fact, it wasnt even from God. It was a skill he had devoloped. In fact, God knew this ability was so real that God stopped him from using it on his people. Now, why in the world if it was not real would God stop him? Think about that for a second. In fact, God USED his ability and turned it in the direction of blessing his people instead of harm. In other words, God made him BREAK his former CONTRACT. God contracted with him instead.
The master deceiver does not play fair. This is why we must be vigilant and know what God's word says about these things. Satan knows better than anyone how to bait a trap.
Agreed.
The magi were not searching for the child Jesus out of ill will. It was their custom to bring gifts to royal children. The devil used them as dupes to alert Herod that a rival king had been born. In his own mind, no one was going to succeed him as King but his own sons, so he had to eliminate any opposition before it had a chance to threaten his dynasty.
If the star had been from God, it would have led them straight to Jesus. Remember that after their visit in Jerusalem, the star came to a stop above the very house where Jesus was. This was no ordinary star, but it led to mass murder. It was not from God.
Didn't you say we must be vigilant and know God's word?
Well, God warned the magi in a dream not to return to herod. Also, the the star was called christ star by the magi. Also if you want to say the star was from the devil, you may as well also say that the passage the teachers of the law gave to herod due to his request of where the child would be born, that passage was of the devil too? Because it was the passage that also led the magi. You see? It dont add up.
Many people believe that the magi were sent by God to worship this child, but that was not their mission. They had no evil intent, but satan used then by means of their astrological beliefs and practices, something condemned in God's law. They did not worship Jesus but came to honor him as a future King.
It was not the star that caused the deaths of children. It was the magi trusting herod at first that led to the deaths.
Look, satan is gonna do his thing whether magi are following a star or a passage or not.
Ill get to your other post tomorrow.