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The Lesson of Job.

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
I do not think that was the lesson in Job
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
Job's family learned a lesson too.

Don't marry and have children with Job.

God might one day out of the blue make a bar-room bet with Satan and have you killed for no other reason than being Job's wife and children , and replace you with another floozy and her spawn leaving you out in the cold.... dead cold.... Literally. Never to be seen and heard of again.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.

Another lesson to be learned from the Book of Job, was Satan was a confidant of God at the time of Job. He could give God advice and God would go along. Satan was not thrown from heaven until Revelations of the New Testament. In the Old Testament, Satan was like the left hand man of God. He was called the Lord of the Earth, in charge of humans after the fall. Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil; law ,and with law comes Satan; Satan's preferred tree.

God was like the Chairman of the Board of Directors, while Satan was his COO and CEO in charge of operations. The Chairman sets overall policy, while the CEO is given creative liberty to make it happen. In the case of Job, the CEO requested a change in policy with respect to Job, which he got from the Chairman, God. But Job did not waiver in spite of the policy change. This made the Chairman a little more distant from his CEO. He began to look for a replacement; Jesus. However, he didn't fire Satan right away.

It is very likely the assumed God of the Old testament, was not the Chairman, but actually his CEO; Satan. This explains why an all knowing God was not proactive with respect to the weaknesses of humans. The Chairman God was doing others things, while his CEO, Satan, was making decisions in the field due to his assigned authority as lord of the earth.

This also explains why Jesus, as the Messiah, was not what the Jews expected. They expected someone more militant; Satan like, who would inflict wrath and pain on others, but not on them. Jesus had a new style in terms of CEO.

When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, Satan promises him all the riches and kingdoms of the earth. Jesus does not say, "you are a liar trying to con me". He knew Satan had this authority as CEO and Lord of the Earth Instead he does not accept his generous offer. Had he accepted the position under the CEO, Satan, he would have been the rich and powerful Messiah, expected. Many religions worshipped the CEO thinking he was the Chairman.
 
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.

You dont believe in the trinity you dont believe in the purpose jesus claims to fulfill you dont believe my other post even though i cited supporting verses but now you say to " study job carefully" why are you inconsistent with the bible?
 
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Jos

Well-Known Member
Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.
I don't get why God wanted to create humans for pleasure when God Himself had everything He ever wanted before creating humans and also if humans are objects of God's pleasure isn't that a form of objectification and doesn't God teach us that objectifying others is wrong?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
I agree that the "lesson" of the story of Job is to be humbled, and remain humbled. But I do not believe the point of the story is to convince us that God is some sort of megalomaniacal egotist (which is how God is being presented in the story). I think the reason God is being presented this way is to exemplify the inexplicability of our relationship with God. To confront us with the contradictory ideal of a terrible-but-loving God. I think we presume too often that the Bible is trying to "teach us about God" when in fact that is NOT how it was originally used by the people who created it. THEY used it as fuel for contemplation, discussion, debate, and even consternation. They did not seek "answers" in it, but to practice cognitive awareness.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Job's family learned a lesson too.

Don't marry and have children with Job.

God might one day out of the blue make a bar-room bet with Satan and have you killed for no other reason than being Job's wife and children , and replace you with another floozy and her spawn leaving you out in the cold.... dead cold.... Literally. Never to be seen and heard of again.


I see I am not the only one who uses the "...bar-room bet with Satan..." line. Good one.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Another angle on this . . .


In the Book of Job God is challenged by ‘one of his sons’ Satan which represents the ‘doubting thought’. God abandons his faithful servant Job and lets him fall without pity into the abyss of physical and moral suffering by murdering his sons and daughters, taking away his livestock, and eventually making the shattered Job of ill and suffering health.

Job, abandoned without protection and stripped of his rights, whose nothingness is thrown in his face at every opportunity evidently appears to be so dangerous to God that he must be battered down with God’s heaviest artillery. God’s robbery, murder, bodily injury is premeditating and he even denies a fair trial. He shows no remorse or compassion, but ruthlessness and brutality, he violates the very commandments he dictated to Man on Mount Sinai.

What is the reasoning behind God the Almighty’s resistance to such a little, puny, and defenseless man such as Job? There must be something which Man has the ability to achieve, and this something is the very same something found in the Garden of Eden story with the Serpent. God sees in Job something of equal in power which causes him to bring out his whole arsenal of destruction and parade it before his opponent. God projects onto Job a skeptic’s face which is hateful because it is his own, it questions his omnipotence.

God’s dual nature has been revealed. Job, in spite of his impotence, is set up by Satan to judge over God himself. God unwittingly raises Job’s spiritual consciousness by humiliating him, and in doing so God pronounces judgment on himself and gives Man moral satisfaction. God’s behavior is that of an unconscious being who cannot be judged morally. God is a phenomenon and, as Job says in the Bible, “not a man.” Not human but, in certain respects, less than human, which is how God described the Archdemon of the West Leviathan.

Job realizes God’s inner antinomy, and in the Light of this gnosis his knowledge attains a divine numinosity . . . as predicted in the debacle in the Garden of Eden, Job attains apotheosis with the assistance of Satan!
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
Very good points and succinct!

It's also about how much a person can take and what can finally get to someone. Job was faithful and didn't complain or curse God even though his wife told him to. However, what finally got his goat was satan's final temptation. Satan's final temptation was actually sending Job's "friends" to "comfort" him. This would be hardest temptation and that's why it takes up most of the book.

Job's religious friends began to accuse Job of all kinds of things he was not guilty of and in general provoke Job to speak angrily against God. Job did give in a bit and began to complain; but still never cursed God and never denied God. So God considered it a passed trial even though God said that Job "darkened counsel with words without knowledge" because of the complaints Job made.

The final human speaker Elihu was a younger man who probably thought he had all the answers. Much of what he said was actually truth; however his message was marred due to his overbearing pride. (Job 36:4) This was the final test of Job to see if he was humble enough to not speak up or angrily retort in the face of a know it all younger guy. (Elihu was not really any better than Job.)

The difference between Elihu and Job is that Elihu had not endured the suffering Job had endured and yet presumed to try to teach Job about how Job poorly Job was doing. God gives trials to people he loves to test their faith. (Hebrews 12:5) It's easy to look righteous and holier-than-thou when you have never had your face pushed in the dirt yet.

So people can learn to not be an Elihu. (Matthew 7:1) And if you are confronted with an "Elihu" type person it's best to keep quiet as Job did; because they aren't God anyway. God will see your humility and will reward it. However, some of what Elihu says is true regardless and it takes humility to admit it. (Matthew 23:2-3)

All in all Job passed the test with flying colors (much better than I would) and swallowed his pride and he became an example for others to follow on how to endure suffering and yet keep their faith in God. So, I believe one overlooked point of the book of Job is that his suffering was not in vain or pointless after all. Without Job's suffering; there would be no book of Job and therefore people would not be able to learn these important lessons . (James 5:11)
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone. … Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.
Oh Ellen, how can you believe such stuff? A creator who believes that he's entitled to torture his creation, like a vicious child torturing an animal? How can one believe in such a being, let alone worship him? For me, Job is the wickedest book in the OT (and that's saying a lot}.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
So humans are better than God?
It would appear that Man has the ability to rise above this god. Job gets more children, and more wealth than he had before, but it is difficult to consider that God can be in any way just or loving to have permitted those deaths.

Job was made perfect through suffering?
Where am I saying that?
The essential question that the book of Job tries to answer is "why do the righteous suffer?" But this question, for Christians, surely can't make any sense, because the New Testament (Romans 3:10) states that nobody, anywhere, ever is righteous: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." Are we to conclude that everyone, including Job, deserves to suffer?

How can God experience antinomy if He's solely all good in nature?
"Inner Antinomy" through confronting the nature of His own ruthless cruelty and lack of omnipotence/omniscience. Why is God asking Satan for his "opinion" about "my servant, Job?" Doesn't God know everything ‑‑ including what Satan's opinion must be? God's evasion of Job's questions simply asserts that we are essentially worthless, and completely unable to comprehend a deity who functions outside the realm of worldly justice. Which, when you put it altogether, suggests that "faith" in any such deity is very much misplaced, or at least useless.
 

WalterTrull

Godfella
In Job we learn that everything we have is fleeting and there is no security in it, none at all. The idea that every bad thing that happens to us is a penalty for our own failure is a lie, satan's lie.

Too many of us never understand that we are Created for the pleasure of the Creator and at his desire everything can be gone.

Read and study Job carefully as if it is a warning to you personally. Even if satan is allowed to destroy all that we love and have, the Creator can give us what he wishes to at the wave of his hand.

Walk meekly beside our Creator. It is what we were created to do.

Did you really read ALL of Job? I'm impressed. I get through a couple of chapters and start skimming. Man, whoever wrote that did go on.
I'm not sure there is a single lesson presented by Job. It seems to be a sort of lengthy and poetic version of things Moses said, who probably borrowed from a lot of folks before him. Not to say anything wrong with the ideas. Lots of take-aways though.
A couple of my favorites are:
"For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me."
"Canst thou by searching find out God?"
Lots of others I guess, if I want to go wading.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
It would appear that Man has the ability to rise above this god. Job gets more children, and more wealth than he had before, but it is difficult to consider that God can be in any way just or loving to have permitted those deaths.
If Man can rise above God then God isn't all-powerful.
Where am I saying that?
The word numinosity refers to an elevated or glorified almost perfect state of supernatural authority or something like that or do I have it wrong and coupled that with the fact that you said Job reached apotheosis which means the highest point in the development of something... it made it sound like Job reached a state of spiritual perfection through the suffering he experienced.
The essential question that the book of Job tries to answer is "why do the righteous suffer?" But this question, for Christians, surely can't make any sense, because the New Testament (Romans 3:10) states that nobody, anywhere, ever is righteous: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one." Are we to conclude that everyone, including Job, deserves to suffer?
If Romans 3:10 is correct then yes we all deserve to suffer but since Christians and Jews disagree over the authority of the OT and NT, according to Jewish theology some people can be counted righteous while in Christian theology no one is righteous.
Why is God asking Satan for his "opinion" about "my servant, Job?" Doesn't God know everything ‑‑ including what Satan's opinion must be?
Yeah it does make God look like he lacks omniscience.
God's evasion of Job's questions simply asserts that we are essentially worthless, a
I agree it does show that humans are ultimately worthless no matter how many timed we are told humans are special and have objective worth and value.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Oh Ellen, how can you believe such stuff? A creator who believes that he's entitled to torture his creation, like a vicious child torturing an animal? How can one believe in such a being, let alone worship him? For me, Job is the wickedest book in the OT (and that's saying a lot}.
That's a short sighted POV ...
 
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