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Debt Relief for Unpaid Government Workers!

Do you support debt relief to keep unpaid government employees working?

  • Yes: Unpaid government workers should get debt relief.

    Votes: 8 72.7%
  • No: Unpaid government workers should not get debt relief.

    Votes: 3 27.3%

  • Total voters
    11

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
As I've just recently discussed, one of my latest concerns is to keep unpaid government workers doing their jobs; this can be done with legislation that would allow them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds without penalty as well as deferring their financial obligations to pay their loans, mortgages or rent until they get all their back pay when their partial government shutdown holiday ends.

The last thing we want is a public uproar from those whose flights get delayed or cancelled from a walk-out of unpaid government workers involved with air travel safety. We want this partial government shutdown to be as painless as possible. Unfortunately, we don't know how long it'll take Democratic congressional members to come to their senses for approving border security barrier funding in order to keep the American public as safe as possible from illegal alien criminality.

Please write your Congressional representatives expressing your support of the aforementioned legislation to financially help unpaid government workers until they can fulfill their financial obligations when they get all their back pay upon the commencement of their partial government shutdown holiday
 

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
That's an interesting question. For example, while that helps the unpaid workers, they're still unpaid.
It's going to hurt them later down the line if they take money out of retirement funds.
For that reason, I'm going to say no. Good idea, bad execution.
Also:
Unfortunately, we don't know how long it'll take Democratic congressional members to come to their senses for approving border security barrier funding in order to keep the American public as safe as possible from illegal alien criminality.
lol

Edit: Argh, but you made the poll in a way that I feel like a dick for voting no! Curses be upon ye, and your entire lineage!:p
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I heard something floating on the radio that if the government workers are unpaid for 30 or more days they don't have to be rehired.

Reducing the government workforce was one of Trump's original ideas.

President-elect Donald Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress are drawing up plans to take on the government bureaucracy they have long railed against, by eroding job protections and grinding down benefits that federal workers have received for a generation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fits-and-job-security/?utm_term=.880de2692cbb

But it looks like they ran into problems trying to fire government workers.

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html

On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

From some anonymous Trump insider.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
That's an interesting question. For example, while that helps the unpaid workers, they're still unpaid.
It's going to hurt them later down the line if they take money out of retirement funds.
For that reason, I'm going to say no. Good idea, bad execution.
Also:

lol

Edit: Argh, but you made the poll in a way that I feel like a dick for voting no! Curses be upon ye, and your entire lineage!:p

Your survey participation is certainly appreciated. I was thinking it'd be nice for them if they could get tax-free cash out of their retirement savings for paying any bills not covered by legislation providing them debt relief protection from lenders or landlords; and then they could later make-up for lost retirement savings when they'd collect their back-pay and contribute back into their retirement savings plan upon the commencement of their partial government shutdown holiday.
 
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Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
and then they could later make-up for lost retirement savings when they'd collect their back-pay and contribute back into their retirement savings plan upon the commencement of their partial government shutdown holiday.
Ah, that's a good idea.
Still, getting them their paychecks would be better. Possibly a bill that gives them payment while the wall is being... ahem... "negotiated".
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I voted no, not because I don't feel bad for them but, why should they have any greater benefit than the rest of us. We all may get the boot at some point and end up jobless. If that happens to me, nobody is going to give me any debt relief.

I've had a few companies close the doors. At best maybe I get a few weeks severance.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
I heard something floating on the radio that if the government workers are unpaid for 30 or more days they don't have to be rehired.

Reducing the government workforce was one of Trump's original ideas.

President-elect Donald Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress are drawing up plans to take on the government bureaucracy they have long railed against, by eroding job protections and grinding down benefits that federal workers have received for a generation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...fits-and-job-security/?utm_term=.880de2692cbb

But it looks like they ran into problems trying to fire government workers.

Has President Trump suckered Democrats and the Deep State into a trap that will enable a radical downsizing of the federal bureaucracy? In only five more days of the already "longest government shutdown in history" (25 days and counting, as of today), a heretofore obscure threshold will be reached, enabling permanent layoffs of bureaucrats furloughed 30 days or more.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html

On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don't feel like doing what they are told, they don't.

Why would they? We can't fire them. They avoid attention, plan their weekend, schedule vacation, their second job, their next position – some do this in the same position for more than a decade.

They do nothing that warrants punishment and nothing of external value. That is their workday: errands for the sake of errands – administering, refining, following and collaborating on process. "Process is your friend" is what delusional civil servants tell themselves. Even senior officials must gain approval from every rank across their department, other agencies and work units for basic administrative chores.

Most of my career colleagues actively work against the president's agenda. This means I typically spend about 15 percent of my time on the president's agenda and 85 percent of my time trying to stop sabotage, and we have no power to get rid of them. Until the shutdown.

From some anonymous Trump insider.

Thank you for sharing this information. I'm in favor of downsizing government Bureaucracies. If keeping this government shutdown going for more than 30 days is the only way to get this done, then yeah...let's do it!

Of course, Congressional Republicans and the POTUS would like to implement any resolution to make this partial government shut-down as painless as possible, because we don't know how long it's going to take for the Democratic members of Congress to come to their senses that border patrol agents and law enforcement are entitled to have all the possible tools, including a border security barrier, for making their jobs safer and more effective towards keeping illegal alien criminals out of our nation.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
I voted no, not because I don't feel bad for them but, why should they have any greater benefit than the rest of us. We all may get the boot at some point and end up jobless. If that happens to me, nobody is going to give me any debt relief.

I've had a few companies close the doors. At best maybe I get a few weeks severance.

These are workers though who are unpaid. They'd still be legally obligated to pay any missed rent, missed scheduled mortgage payments, or missed scheduled loan payments within a reasonable time after they get their back-pay. So then, they really wouldn't be getting any extra benefits in the long run.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Ah, that's a good idea.
Still, getting them their paychecks would be better. Possibly a bill that gives them payment while the wall is being... ahem... "negotiated".

Did you see what some anonymous Trump insider wrote in post #3. If we were to keep this government shutdown going beyond 30 days, then government downsizing could get done. So, some good there can come out of a long-term government shutdown.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
I've been quite surprised and saddened that the people of this country have not made a stronger stand against the present lunacy.

Apparently, they did arrest someone who was headed to Washington D.C. to take care of it. I've been surprised that a large group of lawfully assembled American citizens, NOT members of the Government have not yet sought redress.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I voted no, not because I don't feel bad for them but, why should they have any greater benefit than the rest of us. We all may get the boot at some point and end up jobless. If that happens to me, nobody is going to give me any debt relief.

I've had a few companies close the doors. At best maybe I get a few weeks severance.

I see your point but them not getting paid is not any fault of their own. It's Trump having a temper tantrum because democrats wont vote to give him what he wants.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I've been quite surprised and saddened that the people of this country have not made a stronger stand against the present lunacy.

Because Trump is the right color....

People here often do not see the racial component behind all of this and yet look at me crazy as if when I mention it, it is all that I focus on. Does anyone here honestly think if Obama did exactly what Trump is doing media wise he wouldn't hear it? Rashida Tlaib who called Trump a "MF" got 5 times more press than Steve king who made the following remark:

"White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”

Trump's antics is the reason why I believe white privilege exist cause all we need to do is do a side by side and speculate the "what if Obama acted out like Trump?" and I'm sure the GOP would have a field day. I still cannot get over the fact that I exist in a country where the president was made to show his birth certificate to prove his citizenship. Trump can collaborate with Russians but his citizenship is never questioned. If Obama did the same thing his citizenship would questioned even more.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Because Trump is the right color....

People here often do not see the racial component behind all of this and yet look at me crazy as if when I mention it, it is all that I focus on. Does anyone here honestly think if Obama did exactly what Trump is doing media wise he wouldn't hear it? Rashida Tlaib who called Trump a "MF" got 5 times more press than Steve king who made the following remark:

"White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive? Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”

Trump's antics is the reason why I believe white privilege exist cause all we need to do is do a side by side and speculate the "what if Obama acted out like Trump?" and I'm sure the GOP would have a field day. I still cannot get over the fact that I exist in a country where the president was made to show his birth certificate to prove his citizenship. Trump can collaborate with Russians but his citizenship is never questioned. If Obama did the same thing his citizenship would questioned even more.

Is there a way that I can apologize for your suffering that will be sufficient and healing for you? I lived in Muslim culture for more than 7 years, and in America most Muslims are "People of Color", and I've seen happening some of what embitters you. I wish I could say that things are rapidly changing.

I was doing some research today and found out that 61% of the World population is Asian, and 17% is White. There seems to be twice as many Africans as Whites. :(
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
As I've just recently discussed, one of my latest concerns is to keep unpaid government workers doing their jobs; this can be done with legislation that would allow them to withdrawal money from their retirement funds without penalty as well as deferring their financial obligations to pay their loans
Why should they be made to take from their own retirement funds because the Toddler-in-Chief wants to throw a tantrum and seriously **** things up to try to get his way? If anything, since Trump is directly responsible for this it should come out if his ***. The Dems aren't against boarder security, they are against a farce of a wall that will be too expensive to build and cost even more than that to maintain.
The government workers don't need extra legislation, they need the paychecks that Uncle Sam is obligated to give to them for their time worked - this, of course, being the most basic of a Capitalist arrangement. I work for you, you pay me. But because of Trump's stupidity it's unfairly shifted to "work for me, I won't pay you."
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Why should they be made to take from their own retirement funds because the Toddler-in-Chief wants to throw a tantrum and seriously **** things up to try to get his way? If anything, since Trump is directly responsible for this it should come out if his ***. The Dems aren't against boarder security, they are against a farce of a wall that will be too expensive to build and cost even more than that to maintain.
The government workers don't need extra legislation, they need the paychecks that Uncle Sam is obligated to give to them for their time worked - this, of course, being the most basic of a Capitalist arrangement. I work for you, you pay me. But because of Trump's stupidity it's unfairly shifted to "work for me, I won't pay you."

65 nations have border security fences, in part to make the jobs of their border patrol agents and law enforcement more safe and effective at keeping illegal alien criminals out of their countries. For example, Hungary's border barrier has effectively reduced illegal migration there by over 99 percent. So then, border barriers, evidently are neither harmful nor more costly than beneficial.

Trump's latest border security barrier proposal offers border patrol agents the type of structure, a see-through steel-slated barrier wall, that makes border patrol jobs safer and more effective at keeping unwanted intruders from trespassing into our nation. Also, Trump's latest border security barrier is for 285 miles of border fencing at a cost of less than one tenth of one percent of all federal government spending.

Five key Senate Democrats have entirely flip-flopped on the issue of a border security barrier system and these Senators have failed to explain why they now are against the same type of border security barrier system that they supported when they voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006.

Five current Democratic U.S. senators, including the party’s top leadership, all voted for the
Secure Fence Act Of 2006, the very law that authorized the same type of border security system that President Trump now wants to extend across the vast stretch of land between the U.S.-Mexico border.

They are:
  • Minority Leader Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.
  • Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.
  • Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore
  • Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del.
  • Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich.
These 5 Democratic Senators have now withdrawn their support for an effective border security system, merely out of Partisan Party politics in order to oppose Republican President Trump who has vowed to have an effective border security system extended across most of our nation's border with Mexico.

2013: All Senate Dems voted to build border fence, kill visa lottery, end chain migration::

2013: All Senate Dems voted to build border fence, kill visa lottery, end chain migration
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I voted <yes> because my favorite bank is
offering programs for coping with the shutdown.
If they approve, then I trust their judgment.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
I would be in favor of something like this. I also noticed Trump signed a bill that guarantees their back pay (I learned this isn't always the case). Don't like the guy but at least there is a bit of security there.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Trump's antics is the reason why I believe white privilege exist cause all we need to do is do a side by side and speculate the "what if Obama acted out like Trump?" and I'm sure the GOP would have a field day.
It makes me cringe to even try to think of it. If Obama acted like Trump, people like Limbaugh might actually make someone like Ricky Gervais blush from hearing that kind of language. It would have been deliberately belligerent, inflammatory,
65 nations have border security fences, in part to make the jobs of their border patrol agents and law enforcement more safe and effective at keeping illegal alien criminals out of their countries. For example, Hungary's border barrier has effectively reduced illegal migration there by over 99 percent. So then, border barriers, evidently are neither harmful nor more costly than beneficial.
How do you propose we bypass the risks posed to migratory animals and local environments? How do you ensure no one goes over, under, or around the wall? How does a wall prevent illegal immigrants when most of the illegal immigrants came here legally and overstayed their visa? Why not cameras, satellites, and drones to allow the border to watched with a degree of efficiency with one person watching more boarder from behind a screen than what a whole crew could do in a day on foot? And Trump's wall would cost US, the taxpayers, 30 - 70 billion just to build, plus maintenance over the years which will quickly exceed the initial cost to build the wall. We could actually address immigration in a meaningful way, streamline the immigration process, and actively work towards creating a solution for immigration rather than wasting money by passively hoping the issue goes away.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I would be in favor of something like this. I also noticed Trump signed a bill that guarantees their back pay (I learned this isn't always the case). Don't like the guy but at least there is a bit of security there.
Too bad we can't even say that as Trump has flopped too many times. He may sign it today and sign it away tomorrow. The way his presidency has been, we can't say he done anything for this until these workers have the due and deserved paychecks they are entitled to in their hands and deposited into their bank accounts.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member

How do you propose we bypass the risks posed to migratory animals and local environments?
I've pondered this, & figured out the answer....
1) In areas of natural barriers, not wall at all.
2) In other areas, have gaps where animals would benefit.
Increase surveillance & enforcement there.

This will allow penguins to repopulate the north pole.
And polar bears to return to the....uh oh.
 
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