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Privatize Social Security

Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
Taxes will be raised to keep it going. It is a bit of a Ponzi scheme that has been kept afloat partially by the immigrants that Trump wants to ban.
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It's still quite a bit more "solvent" than many other government programs -- even though the trust fund is full of IOUs from other government programs. Alas, it's not a "lock-box."
Salvador said:
Of course, Ponzi Schemes may work in the short run for early scheme contributors, but they inevitably end up in total disasters for later scheme contributors. If any worker were allowed to invest his social security contributions into a conservative low-risk stock market index fund instead of the status quo SS trust fund, he/she would get a far greater return from his/her contributions than what he/she can be expected to receive out of the SS trust fund.
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But people don't invest, it's against human nature. Nor do they have the time and expertise to effectively manage their funds.

Social security was never intended to turn a profit. it's not a stock fund.

Bankers and corporatists have been drooling over this cache of cash for decades; nibbling away at it, borrowing from it, &c. Privatization would absolutely destroy it. it would be sucked dry.

There is a solution, though strongly resisted by the oligarchs.
We pay 6.2% of our income into the fund. Employers match this. Self employed pay the whole 12.4% -- until you reach an income of $132,900 -- above that no percentage is taken out.
Remove this FICA tax cap and a lot of money would pour into the fund from rich people -- who would never miss it.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
Some earned what they get.
Others get more than they earned.
Because it has no money, it depends upon an
increasing number of working taxpayers to fund it.
Ponzi scheme, anyone?
Medicare and Social Security: What you paid compared with what you get
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What part of the word "insurance" don't you understand? Social Security is a social insurance system. Social Security (United States) - Wikipedia goes into some of the acronyms which include 'insurance' such "Federal Insurance Contributions Act" (FICA). Now if you don't believe in insurance at all, then you are ideologically consistent. But if you have any form of insurance that is not legally mandated, then your in logical trouble.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Privatizing SS would be a HUGE mistake. For example, imagine the panic that would have set in in 2018-19 if much of our SS was tied up in stocks & bonds.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
metis said:
Privatizing SS would be a HUGE mistake. For example, imagine the panic that would have set in in 2018-19 if much of our SS was tied up in stocks & bonds.
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The program has a long term problem which can be solved in a way other than by destroying it.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
sun rise said:
The program has a long term problem which can be solved in a way other than by destroying it.
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Absolutely as it's an approach that's worked remarkably well, and all that has to be is to put more money into it and possibly have it better reflect means. The rich prefer the privatizing of it so they can make more money on investments, thus to hell with everyone else.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
metis said:
Privatizing SS would be a HUGE mistake. For example, imagine the panic that would have set in in 2018-19 if much of our SS was tied up in stocks & bonds.
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How about a middle ground?
Instead of having no money saved for SS, create an actual trust fund
for some portion of the liability. It could be stocks, bonds, real estate,
or any stable (over decades) large scale investment.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
How about a middle ground?
Instead of having no money saved for SS, create an actual trust fund
for some portion of the liability. It could be stocks, bonds, real estate,
or any stable (over decades) large scale investment.
Click to expand...
That could be an even bigger problem. If government run then you are talking about government ownership and control of quite a few businesses. If done personally what does one do with people that make poor investments?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
That could be an even bigger problem. If government run then you are talking about government ownership and control of quite a few businesses. If done personally what does one do with people that make poor investments?
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It could be a blind trust, with no government intervention,
eg, letting individual taxpayers say where they invest
(with some reasonable restrictions).
But I agree there are risks....with all systems.
The question is what approach works best.
There just might be something better than a Ponzi scheme with no assets.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
How about a middle ground?
Instead of having no money saved for SS, create an actual trust fund
for some portion of the liability. It could be stocks, bonds, real estate,
or any stable (over decades) large scale investment.
Click to expand...
And there's the problem. These "investments" are not stable.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
james dixon said:
Our government has borrowed over a trillion dollars from the SS trust fund & my bet is they will never pay it back.

:)-
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Yes, the fund is full of IOUs -- and this even without privatization.

As it stands, the SSI is a non-profit. It's purpose is not to make money but to provide a service. Privatize it and its purpose becomes profit above service. If it's not quickly dissolved by vulture capitalists, it'll cut corners, decrease services and increase costs.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
The current system isn't stable either.
But it would be an improvement if something
more tangible than an IOU were there.
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Nothing is stable in the long run. Nations rise and fall, and currencies. The best we can do is pick what looks most stable for the immediate future -- and put it in an Al Gore "lock box." ;)

There are still funds in there, lots of funds, in fact, which is probably why so many special interests are drooling over it and trying to get a piece. Unless further parasitized -- or privatized -- it should be able to pay full benefits for many years just as it is.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Valjean said:
Nothing is stable in the long run. Nations rise and fall, and currencies. The best we can do is pick what looks most stable for the immediate future -- and put it in an Al Gore "lock box." ;)
Click to expand...
The underlined statement doesn't argue for or against anything.
There are still funds in there, lots of funds, in fact, which is probably why so many special interests are drooling over it and trying to get a piece. Unless further parasitized -- or privatized -- it should be able to pay full benefits for many years just as it is.
Click to expand...
Where are the funds?
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
Valjean said:
Nothing is stable in the long run. Nations rise and fall, and currencies. The best we can do is pick what looks most stable for the immediate future -- and put it in an Al Gore "lock box." ;)

There are still funds in there, lots of funds, in fact, which is probably why so many special interests are drooling over it and trying to get a piece. Unless further parasitized -- or privatized -- it should be able to pay full benefits for many years just as it is.
Click to expand...

OT... I once had a Sociology Teacher who said that Nations have a period of stability and when our shelf life is up, it is only a question of time. America has been around for 243 years. Apparently the average nation lasts around 200 years, with the exception of the Roman Empire which was around 1400 years.

Presently our national deficit is the largest it has ever been. However, the Richest have the most money they have ever had.

In Europe Artists and the like survived by Patronage. Isn't it odd that YouTube could become so popular yet they are "demonetizing" so many accounts and many users are now using something for support called Patreon.

So, knowing that America is circling the drain, what form will our future government(s) take? So many recent movies have portrayed a distopian future for us. What? Did we really think they were joking? I'm hoping to have beamed up before then.
 
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