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Pelosi pulls power play

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yeah, like when Obama destroyed the economy and caused the second worst depression in history.

Oh, wait, that was the Republican Bush. It was the Democrat Obama that turned it around and started a seven-year recovery.
I didn't see it in my paycheck, taxes, or prices at the stores.

Recovery my ***.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yeah, like when Obama destroyed the economy and caused the second worst depression in history.

Oh, wait, that was the Republican Bush. It was the Democrat Obama that turned it around and started a seven-year recovery.
Given that the depression resulted from 9/11, if blame must be assessed, it should
go to Bill Clinton, who had 2 full terms of not addressing that threat. Bush had just
recently assumed office, so that attack cannot be easily blamed upon him.
Bush does deserve demerits for his response, but he doesn't own that fully either.
Democrats in Congress, including Hillary Clinton, voted to start & continue the wars.
Obama's role was hardly helpful. He continued the wars, & pursued policies which
slowed recovery, eg, forcing lenders to foreclose upon loans rather than renegotiating
them to keep them viable, making refinancing more difficult & costly. Did you know that
one often has to pay income tax when refinancing a troubled loan? This policy sent
many into bankruptcy instead of recovery
Btw, Trump is guilty of this sin too. I have bones to pick with this taxer & spender too.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I know.
Yours is a commonly given reason for refusing to end
the shutdown. Let's say Trump is equally entrenched...
How many months would you allow the shutdown to
continue before the damage becomes unacceptable?

Were I either party, I'd have given it 2 weeks max.
Otherwise winning is costlier than losing.
I think you're a timeline optimist. I'd guess they can keep it going a month or two more. My assumption about how long is based on major problems surfacing such as airports shutting down due to lack of TSA screeners. I suspect that over the next couple of weeks things will get worse but not to the "shutdown" level.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think you're a timeline optimist.
I only said what time frame I'd operate under if
I were one of the parties to that dispute.
How long will they take? I make no predictions.
I'd guess they can keep it going a month or two more. My assumption about how long is based on major problems surfacing such as airports shutting down due to lack of TSA screeners. I suspect that over the next couple of weeks things will get worse but not to the "shutdown" level.
I've been watching Air Disasters a lot lately.
The first crash which can be pinned on the shut
down will see a solution within a couple weeks.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
I have regularly been watching State of the Union addresses since the late 1960's but if Trump gives one before he reopens government I'll be darned if I watch it. You know it will be nothing but a political rant on "the Wall" and why the Dems are all at fault, thus hoping that at least his base will forget the fact that he said that he would own it and that Mexico would pay for "the Wall" that he has said over 200 times in public.
Could you be a little bit prejudice?
Are you sure that is all he would bring forward.
I will not watch it, have never watched a State of the Union address.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Given that the depression resulted from 9/11
Um......what? The Bush recession started in 2007-2008 and was a result of the collapse of the US real estate market.

if blame must be assessed, it should go to Bill Clinton, who had 2 full terms of not addressing that threat. Bush had just recently assumed office, so that attack cannot be easily blamed upon him.
The Clinton administration specifically briefed W. Bush's staff about Bin Laden and the threat he posed. W. Bush de-emphasized it once they were sworn in.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
We can examine your claim by looking at posts on RF.
If that's your world. I live in a bigger world.


The anti-Trumpers are the ones far & away most prone to insult,
name calling, demonization, & dedicated to
maintaining the shutdown because of hatred for Trump.

You are intentionally and purposefully ignoring the actions of the name calling demonizer-in-chief; Donald Trump. Never in any run for nomination has any candidate so excoriated, demonized, demeaned, deprecated, and disparaged all of his opponents. Never in any run for nomination has any candidate so excoriated, demonized, demeaned, deprecated, and disparaged anyone and everyone who spoke out against him. Never in any run for nomination has any candidate so excoriated, demonized, demeaned, deprecated, and disparaged the Press.

Any disgust felt toward Trump is a direct result of his own actions.
Any disgust felt toward Trump's supporters is a direct result of their continued support of a lying, bigoted, egomaniac.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I didn't see it in my paycheck, taxes, or prices at the stores.

Recovery my ***.


If you don't remember what the housing market and the stock market and the economy were at the beginning of Obama's administration and at the end of his administration, perhaps that's because you were too busy ommmmming.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Given that the depression resulted from 9/11, if blame must be assessed, it should
go to Bill Clinton, who had 2 full terms of not addressing that threat. Bush had just
recently assumed office, so that attack cannot be easily blamed upon him.
See Jose Fly's post #69 rebuttal. I'm quite sure you know the history of 9/11 and Bush's complete disregard of Richard Clark. The purpose of your intentionally incorrect remarks once again show your deep bias.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Bush does deserve demerits for his response, but he doesn't own that fully either.
Democrats in Congress, including Hillary Clinton, voted to start & continue the wars.
Sure, blame Hillary. Bush beat the war drums loudly and persistently. He even had Colin Powell make a fraudulent case to the UN:
POWELL: My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we’re giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.
Again, these are things you are well aware of. That you twist them shows your deep-seated Republican bias.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Um......what? The Bush recession started in 2007-2008 and was a result of the collapse of the US real estate market.
The real estate market collapsed for several reasons. The trigger was 9/11.
When that happened businesses began contracting, cutting off venture
capital funding, reducing staff, renting smaller units. I personally saw
such massive losses immediately with my commercial tenants. Employees
began having a harder time making loan payments. This triggered Countrywide's
failure. 2007/08 was just when stocks tanked, which is what most people
who aren't in business notice.
The other causes behind the crash were government's encouraging & even
requiring risky lending practices. This gave us the housing bubble.
The Clinton administration specifically briefed W. Bush's staff about Bin Laden and the threat he posed. W. Bush de-emphasized it once they were sworn in.
Clinton scaled back the intelligence network during his reign.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Sure, blame Hillary.
This misses the point.
Blame accrues to all who advocated starting & continuing wars.
Bush beat the war drums loudly and persistently. He even had Colin Powell make a fraudulent case to the UN:
POWELL: My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we’re giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence.
Again, these are things you are well aware of. That you twist them shows your deep-seated Republican bias.
Again, you're entirely missing the point.
1) You try to deflect from it by making it about me.
2) You utterly ignore that I blamed & continue to heap blame upon Bush too.

You're a very angry & hostile guy.
Please work on that.
You'll be more interesting.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
See Jose Fly's post #69 rebuttal. I'm quite sure you know the history of 9/11 and Bush's complete disregard of Richard Clark. The purpose of your intentionally incorrect remarks once again show your deep bias.
I underlined the portion which bespeaks your anger & hostility.
These are things you don't & cannot know.
(You're wrong, btw. I do believe what I post.)
And to accuse me of lying by cowering behind artful language....tsk tsk.
If you really do want to converse with me, you need to be more civil.
 
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ecco

Veteran Member
Democrats in Congress, including Hillary Clinton, voted to start & continue the wars.
This is another example of your need to mispresent the truth to support your Republican bias.

In the House voting Aye : Nay
Republican: 215 : 6
Democratic: 82 : 126

In the Senate voting Aye : Nay
Republican: 48 : 1
Democratic: 29 : 21

Yes, some Democrats voted to support Bush. However, the majority of the support came along party lines.
 

TheresOnlyNow

The Mind Is Everything. U R What U Think
That's a perfect description of what Trump is trying to do. Yay to Nancy for saying NO.
Liberals can try to turn it around but it really doesn't wash.
Pelosi thinks she has the same power as Trump, according to the Constitution. She alluded to that in an interview recently.
She's unhinged.



She's done it. There's no invitation to speak. If he shows up to speak, she can deny him the microphone and even turn it off if he tries to push his way to the podium.
Well, even if she has, she looks like the pathetic extortionist fool that she is. She can't stop Trump from giving the SotU. And besides, it is a good thing he isn't going to speak in the chamber. When the Dem's openly make fools of themselves to this point, one knows they'll jeer him in the chamber were he to give the SotU.
In fact I'm surprised Nancy didn't let him speak there for that very purpose.

Trump can make history yet again by giving it from the Oval office for all that matters. Sending a draft to the Congress. Or, he can rent a venue and give a Republican rally so that the Democrats, who would disrupt the SotU if he was to be allowed in the chamber, can be overcome in their agenda.




She's being very smart. He's a bully and the answer to a bully is not to give him what he demands. He only understands power and he's going to learn that the butt kissing that the Republicans are doing just won't work with a Democratic House. It's going to be a very painful lesson given what's liable to happen as TSA employees look for jobs that will give them a paycheck that the need to use to eat and pay the rent, for example.
LOL



It will go on until something breaks badly. There's a lot of creaking right now, but the pain is not bad enough yet.
Democrats are on the left hand path. Evil will never triumph in America.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Obama's role was hardly helpful. He continued the wars, & pursued policies which
slowed recovery, eg, forcing lenders to foreclose upon loans rather than renegotiating
them to keep them viable, making refinancing more difficult & costly. Did you know that
one often has to pay income tax when refinancing a troubled loan? This policy sent
many into bankruptcy instead of recovery


Was it Obama who signed into law the banking regulations that led to the disaster? No. The main thing I fault Obama for was not having DOJ prosecute any bankers.
 
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