• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can you truly understand?

Dekrikos Augustine

Dekrikos Augustine

Life Person Thing
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

Many non-believers start out with some form of religious background, some even gave decades of their lives to a religion. I made it until I was 17, then I started to drift off from family tradition.

I still believe I am spiritual on some level, just not necessarily in a sort of religious/supernatural sort of way. I've also kept many of my mental habits from when I was full on Wiccan, though it's not even been five years since I've "lost faith". The point being that I do have some form of personal understanding with religious beliefs and have lived a religious sort of lifestyle consciously for several years.

That being said, I know little to nothing about the religious lifestyles of pretty much every single other religion in existence. I understand bits and pieces, like the personal value of beliefs that connect you to something more important than yourself. But bits and pieces is as far as it goes with me. I have no idea how similar most of these beliefs and lifestyles are when compared to how mine were. I simply lack the knowledge and life experience.

Then again, my religion wasn't at all strict and pretty much let you off with anything as long as you showed respect to the world and our fellow living creatures. One could even say it's not even a religion and that I don't know what I'm talking about at all. I might agree with that.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can i ask what made you walk away from your religious past?
Click to expand...

Two things,

After searching for the "truth" what I seemed to be led to was that the only true consciousness was God's consciousness. IOW the ultimate identity of the self was God. I didn't really like this idea of the ultimate self being God. Too egotistical for me.

The second was that I had tried several different beliefs. All of them came with various religious experiences which supported the belief I happen to be involved in at the time. Being a Christian experiencing the presence of God or the Holy Spirit. speaking in tongues. Hinduism/Buddhism experiencing oneness and non-self. Scientology, remembering past lives. Druidism seeing nature spirits.

It seemed desire and belief provided spiritual experience. If I sincerely believe in something enough, I would have the spiritual experience to support it. This carried me along quite a while in certainty of the truth of my experiences but I started to wonder if these were real experiences or if the force of my certainty and belief cause my sub-conscious mind to create these seemingly "real" experiences.

I realized that I couldn't actually be certain. So how much belief should I have in these experiences I really couldn't be certain about.

So I understand how very real these experiences can feel. However I suspect our subconscious mind is capable of creating these experiences for us.

So I decided that spiritual experiences regardless of how real them seemed aren't a reliable means of determining the truth.
 
Workman

Workman

UNIQUE
I wasn’t the religious person then I learnt the tree of life, since then I have changed for the better, and learnt through tongue..everything became clearer..the tree of knowledge is where all live today..

What is the difference between
To know and To understand?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Edit.

Spirituality and a religious lifestyle is a human thing. No one person is alien to another. So, our experiences are different and our reaction to them; however, what isn't different is the emotions and physical "symptoms" for lack of better words.

For example, I was listening to a Dharma talk and the monk describe his involvement with christian priests. Their lifestyle and religion are completely different; but, they still have a common bond of spirituality.

Then you have the non-believer who, say, has a connection with the love of his family within his cultural norms and ethics. To someone else who has family ties will have similarities or "understand" despite differing beliefs and lifestyles.

What joins the two is the compassion, passion, devotion, and all around human connection all humans have with other as a foundation of our beliefs. It's the same intensity. Same intent. Same physiology. We're all human.

So, even though our experiences are different being a believer or non-believer doesn't mean either doesn't know other's human experience. If anything, if both are close to their passion and love for others, like the Buddhist and Priest, they would still share camaraderie regardless our experiences and beliefs.

The question, although genuine, doesn't make sense. Unless we are all aliens, of course we will understand the other's experiences as humans. Just our beliefs and personal experiences put barriers between each other.

Can a religious person understand truly the non-religious lifestyle?

Is there a non-religious lifestyle to which the non-believer cannot experience the same human spirituality however named as their religious counterparts?

Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

Yes. I can. If you asked about specific religions, I cannot. We are all human; so, we all can share a spiritual and devotional lifestyle. Just because we are of different faiths doesn't mean we are non-believers (alien) to spiritual practices just we don't have the values and practices of all faiths that shape our spirituality within one faith and practice.

What prompt you to ask the question?
 
Last edited:
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Unveiled Artist said:
Yes.

@Amanaki A lot of us do. Is there an open ended question that you would like to look more into between or how a non-religious person can understand the religious lifestyle?

What prompt you to ask the question?
Click to expand...

Well i asked mostly because i was curious. and because i wonder how someone who do not study a spiritual path deeply can put them self in that situation and say they do understand the way of life from a view of someone who dedicate their life to spirituality.

But of course there can be some non believers who do understand it. I dont judge those who do not believe, just ask questions.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

No.

Religion done right is your way of life. It encompasses all of who you are and what you do. You cannot know that path without walking it. There is no backseat driving with religion.

That's not to say there is no understanding. But there is a very marked difference between watching and studying thirdhand and firsthand experience. Especially for mystical religions, like contemporary Paganism, where practice and doing and being are emphasized over passive "belief in" something.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
We can just our devotional lifestyle is centered around a different set of values and practices. The passion and connection is human, therefore the same. Our specific chosen lifestyle is different. There is no non-believers. Just people who walk different paths. The word non-believers is actually a rude word in my opinion. That's just me.

Amanaki said:
Well i asked mostly because i was curious. and because i wonder how someone who do not study a spiritual path deeply can put them self in that situation and say they do understand the way of life from a view of someone who dedicate their life to spirituality.

But of course there can be some non believers who do understand it. I dont judge those who do not believe, just ask questions.
Click to expand...

Sorry. Kinda edited the question. In a nutshell, all humans have the same experiences, as humans. There is no such thing as non-believes and believers. If you asked specifically can a christian experience the results and lifestyle of Hindu practices, no, they cannot. It depends on how specific you are and what you mean by devotional practices and whose.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...
Ballpark no: Religions are often set up to be different things to people at different levels of maturity, so no. People change and mature over time, and religions anticipate this. That means to understand a religious life fully you would need to experience maturation while in it. After you are mature you will of course have some similar understanding to other mature adults, but you still won't have the same religious experiences.
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

I disagree from the beginning. You cannot define nor pigeon hole what is nor is not 'religious' and separate being religious and living a religious life. This goes along with many that use the word 'religion or religious' as stones to throw at others who believe differently.

It is questionable whether fallible humans can ultimately 'Truly understand' anything.
 
Last edited:
B

BubbaGumps

Member
Few people retain one set of religious beliefs over a lifetime. It is almost always something that changes or evolves. For example, some people grow up Catholic and convert to a Fundamentalist belief system and vice versa. Some people grow up as conservative Muslims or Jews and become allied with more liberal traditions in these faiths. Some people leave their system altogether for another. Some people leave western religious systems for Eastern ones. Some people leave traditional faith systems altogether and never go back. I know one individual who was Catholic, converted to Evangelical christianity, a few years later went back to the Catholic church, then a decade later converted to Buddhism. He is now a hardcore atheist and Richard Dawkins is his hero. Most people go through 2-3 such changes through their lives--not always as drastic but change nonetheless. Just as people's own unique personal lifestyles change, so do their religious ones. Today you might be a Baptist, tomorrow knocking on people's doors handing out pamphlets for the Mormon church.
 
Last edited:
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

Firstly, thank you for all the interesting threads you post. I really enjoy reading them.

I agree I know next to little or nothing about my own religion except the beautiful words. In practice it’s an entirely different thing to reading and talking about it.

But I think a non religious person or even atheist if they live a virtuous life can have more understanding than one who can quote by heart all heavenly books!
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...
I dare say not, since one or two major premises are involved that after considerable examination I think are not accurate statements about reality.

Perhaps the counterpart to your question is, why are so many professional physicists nonbelievers?
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

spiritual = mental

the problem is that spiritual is not conditional, mind in its true essence is unconditional, and very much idiosyncratic. love is unconditional in it's true essence too. most organized religions attempt to create automatons. unfortunately not everyone comes from the same point in time/space.
 
B

BubbaGumps

Member
blü 2 said:
I dare say not, since one or two major premises are involved that after considerable examination I think are not accurate statements about reality.

Perhaps the counterpart to your question is, why are so many professional physicists nonbelievers?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's about being a non-believer by default due to occupation but rather due to the fact that a Scientist is trained to form conclusions about the nature of reality using empirical observations as the foundation and starting point to arrive at the conclusions. A scientist would reply to a claim of the miraculous by saying that you are basically asking me to blindly accept conclusions that fly in the face of our accumulated encyclopedia of these observations about reality.
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Amanaki said:
Can you truly understand how it is to live a religious life if you are not religious you self?

Can you truly understand why a spiritual/religious person do or dont do if you are not living that form of lifestyle you self?
Click to expand...

How can someone state as a fact that their experiences are the sole valid experiences? I experience Jesus personally, He is evident to me. How can anyone say, "I know what a Christian is" or "I used to be a Christian but Christianity is false!" if they were pursuing relationships/Bible study/church attendance/a charismatic pastor/praying, etc. without having an actual relationship with Christ? And even if they say, "Christianity is false, as the Christ never became evident to me, despite my prayer/Bible study" how can someone state as a fact that their experiences are the sole valid experiences?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top