What skeptics are doing is evaluating the evidence for and against gods in general and any specific god in particular. We're unlikely to be convinced by the kinds of things that likely would be the case if no god existed. Remember, evidence is that which makes a particular idea more or less likely to be true. If the only available evidence is consistent with either a god existing or not, it is not evidence for the existence of a god. That's what was implied with the if s1 then r1 or r2, but if s2, only r2. If result 2 keeps turning up (tails from the loaded coin, for example, or what we would expect in a godless universe). That's not evidence for s1, that is, a god or a fair coin.
I am sorry, I appreciate the formulas but I kind of get lost in them and I am trying to keep this as simple as possible.
The way I see it, if the only available evidence is consistent with
either a god existing or not, it could be evidence for the existence of a god
or not. Such evidence could mean god does not exist, but it could also mean God does exist; a or b.
Let me share this quotation with you:
"If there is a god, that god should know exactly what it would take to change my mind...and that god should be capable of doing whatever it would take. The fact that this hasn't happened can only mean one of two things: 1. No such god exists. 2. Whatever god exists doesn't care to convince me, at this time. In either case, it's not my problem and there's nothing I can do about it. Meanwhile, all of those believers who think that there is a god who does want me to know that he exists - are clearly, obviously, undeniably... wrong." -Matt Dillahunty"
Those are both logical possibilities but there is a third possibility. There could be a god that wants you to convince yourself that He exists, with no help from Him, other than sending a Messenger. What reason do you have to think that if god exists, god would want to
convince anyone that He exists? God gave us innate intelligence so we can do research and make determinations, and God gave us free will to choose to believe or disbelieve. Moreover, an omnipotent/omniscient God needs
absolutely nothing from humans, so God has no motive for convincing anyone to believe in Him. God only wants humans to believe in Him for our own benefit. That is essentially why God leaves that decision up to us as to whether we want God’s assistance of not.
How about if God were to rearrange the stars in our night sky tonight to spell out "I am God"? That would be a little more convincing than people telling us that they speak for God, which anybody can say.
It would be, but God does not want to convince anyone of His existence. God wants us to convince ourselves. There are rational reasons for that. One reason is that if God made it obvious to
everyone that He exists, some people who are undeserving of knowing that would find out. By making it a little more difficult, albeit not impossible, God separates the sincere seekers who are willing to put forth effort from those who do not care that much and are unwilling to put forth any effort.
I'm not that far along yet. You're assuming the existence of a god, which is a premise for you, and one I haven't accepted. I'm evaluating evidence to decide if I believe that a god exists. The matter remains undecided for me.
Well that is a reasonable and respectable position to take. One has to start somewhere. Some of us start at ground zero, I know I did. I was a nonbeliever before I became a Baha’i. I did not become Baha’i because I was searching for God or a religion, I did so because I was drawn to the teachings. I assumed God existed because the Revelation of Baha’u’llah was proof to me. Back then, 48 years ago, it was not that important that God existed so I just accepted that half-heartedly. Only within the last six years have I really given God any serious thought. During this time, I have been on forums 24/7 being challenged to provide evidence for God and Baha’u’llah. It is because of these challenges and the extensive research into the Baha’i Writings that it engendered that my belief in God has been further confirmed, to the point that I know that God exists. Ironically, the end result of atheists trying to talk me out of my beliefs had exactly the opposite effect.
That wasn't the claim. I am not talking about the cause of my choices. I am simply saying that if they can be known with certainty before they are made, they aren't what I mean by free will. Remember, I make the distinction between free will, wherein the conscious agent is the source and author of its will at the time it is manifest. If I am fated to make all of the decisions that lie ahead of me, they are not my choices. And if they feel like they are because I cannot detect that they are coming from deterministic neural processes outside of consciousness that are them delivered to the agent to execute, then that is what I call the illusion of free will, or what some people call living a robotic existence, which is not free will as I have defined it.
The thing is that all fate is not irrevocable. Some fate is impending.
Everything that will happen to us has already been written on the Tablet of Fate, but we can alter some of
what will be written on the Tablet of Fate by the decisions we make and the actions that ensue. In other words, we can alter
what would have been written on the Tablet of Fate by the decisions we make. It is however important to note that we can only alter a conditional or impending fate, not a decreed fate.
Question.—Is the predestination which is mentioned in the Holy Books a decreed thing? If so, is not the effort to avoid it useless?
Answer.—Fate is of two kinds: one is decreed, and the other is conditional or impending. The decreed fate is that which cannot change or be altered, and conditional fate is that which may occur. So, for this lamp, the decreed fate is that the oil burns and will be consumed; therefore, its eventual extinction is a decree which it is impossible to alter or to change because it is a decreed fate. In the same way, in the body of man a power of life has been created, and as soon as it is destroyed and ended, the body will certainly be decomposed, so when the oil in this lamp is burnt and finished, the lamp will undoubtedly become extinguished.
But conditional fate may be likened to this: while there is still oil, a violent wind blows on the lamp, which extinguishes it. This is a conditional fate. It is wise to avoid it, to protect oneself from it, to be cautious and circumspect. But the decreed fate, which is like the finishing of the oil in the lamp, cannot be altered, changed nor delayed. It must happen; it is inevitable that the lamp will become extinguished.” Some Answered Questions, p. 244
In other words, some things like death are decreed, fixed and settled, so they are going to happen eventually and we cannot alter that. However, we can alter when we die by not standing out in the road in front of a moving truck!
That would be a description of the illusion of free will, not free will per se. We feel like we are the source of our volition, but if it's all predetermined, then we are not. Omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive properties. In fact, if God knows what He will do for all eternity and is compelled to play out that script, in what sense can we say that God has free will?
But it isn’t all predetermined. The fact that
God knows what will happen that is not what
causes it to happen. Our actions cause things to happen. We live out what God knows will happen and it can be changed along the way if it is an impending fate.
This is a difficult subject I have discussed at length with many people, primarily the nonbelievers I post to on other forums. They said the same thing you did but eventually they came around to understand what I was saying. In short, God is omnipotent so God can change anything whenever He wants to, either an impending fate or an irrevocable fate, but God only changes an impending fate since changing an irrevocable fate would cause more harm than good. God is omniscient, so God knows everything all at once. God knows what we would have done and what we ended up doing before we know it.
God has a Will but God can alter His Will according to what humans do because God is omnipotent. The following passage indicates that God does not have everything decided ahead of time. Humanity still has a chance to avoid a major calamity if we act before the appointed hour.
“We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214
