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How can muslims watch TV or draw animate if its forbidden?

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
How can muslims watch TV or draw animate if its forbidden?
Same way Christians can, they cherry pick.

But i feel it can be atleast worked on being interpreted just due to what comes after the verse "you should not make any graven images" etc

So back to interpretation. What Valjean said "Cherry pick".
When people just cherry pick for themselves and not for others, there won't be much of a problem,
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Like i am just asking that, the point is the islamic hadiths forbids it but it also gives "vague reasons why it is" its very straight to the point that image making is just bad. But they take images as idols or something and i assume thats why it is forbidden... in a very vague way.

Point is i feel the bible is much more, transparent to what comes after it.

Like i am not saying, you cant see if it cant be interpreted otherwise. But i dunno. It just feels hard for some reason. I just have not seen any way if its possible. Since it does just seem point blank that, you are sorta trying to play a creator even though you are not one seems to be what i feel it is accusing you of is why painting or making animate stuff is a sin in islam.
I think you're right that the thinking behind both religions' injunctions is idolatry, but there are different interpretations and practices in both. Religion seems to change to reflect the current culture, with occasional retreats into fundamentalism among those feeling insecure or threatened.
Point is that some religious culture is a tad bit more, easier.. I dunno.

Like Islamic hadiths also says dont make faith hard on followers, but again it is also very consistant on importance of keeping up rules to being clear and sound.

i just feels its more religious cultural consistency for some reason depending on the religious culture and how its applied and how it differs. Like i dont try to act like an expert. But I'd love to hear your feedback
Are there any 'experts'? Perhaps there are too many experts. Both society and religion evolve, and historical practices and interpretations have been all over the map.
My first thought I get now is that we should also not make a picture of God
And is picture meant literally or figuratively. Describing in words is to me also a picture, let alone to blind people.

Then it would mean that we should not say "God hates when you do this etc." or "God wants you to do this or that"
Do I understand correctly what you were implying?
The holy writings say all sorts of ambiguous, even contradictory things.
I'm saying that interpretations in both religions could easily be interpreted either to permit or forbid images -- or specific images.
Both books are inconsistent, even contradictory.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Both books are inconsistent, even contradictory.

That even would make sense to me, that they contradict each other. My Master loved to do that. Truth is not found in words but in Silence. So these contradictions are blessings in disguise in my opinion.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why, I wonder, could religious writers not write clearly and unambiguously? Why couldn't they say what they mean clearly?
It seems to me that almost anyone could rewrite any of these ambiguous passages clearly.
Were the original authors scatterbrained?
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
It's all a question of interpretation. When Saudi Arabia first issued postage stamps, they had no pictures on them — now they do. But they would still never display a picture of Muhammad.

Jews ban pictures in the synagogue, but they didn't in the past:
Dura-Europos synagogue - Wikipedia

Christians had a furious debate over the use of images in churches until the supporters of images won the argument — then Luther came along and it started all over again.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
There have been reports of souls who are gonna be subjected to Hell for watching cartoons, the eyes of these former-cartoon watching souls shall burn in hellfire; their eyes shall regrow again to get burned again, this shall happen non-stop forever.
 
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islam abduallah

Active Member
i believe in authentic hadiths in general, but it depends on how do you understand, i watch TV and animations without feeling i'm doing something forbidden (it depends surely on the contents)

what's forbidden is to paint or draw a paint that identically like persons or living creators not animations or capturing by video camera or digital camera
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
i believe in authentic hadiths in general, but it depends on how do you understand, i watch TV and animations without feeling i'm doing something forbidden (it depends surely on the contents)

what's forbidden is to paint or draw a paint that identically like persons or living creators not animations or capturing by video camera or digital camera
So it's OK to take a photo of a person, but not to paint his portrait?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't see the difference in terms of social harm.
Does proper behavior involve social benefit or harm, or does it consist in obeying an arbitrary list of rules only marginally related to social welfare?
Ie: Do religious laws have any practical purpose?
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
I don't see the difference in terms of social harm.
Does proper behavior involve social benefit or harm, or does it consist in obeying an arbitrary list of rules only marginally related to social welfare?
Ie: Do religious laws have any practical purpose?

Calling them "Laws" always has it's ridiculous implications, "Laws" in the religious context are meant to be spiritual principles and practices of self-discipline, not legal law.

In the case of images, the notion (whether you find any use in it or not) is about reverence towards humankind, not a superstition.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
But much hadiths are usually critcizing jews of being hypocritical of their belief, almost like they are accused mostly of just not caring about their religious belief at all, aswell as being very harsh on hypocrites of the islamic faith.

You you're going to infer as if something is true, you ought to back this up with facts.
 

islam abduallah

Active Member
I don't see the difference in terms of social harm.
Does proper behavior involve social benefit or harm, or does it consist in obeying an arbitrary list of rules only marginally related to social welfare?
Ie: Do religious laws have any practical purpose?

I don't have big kniwlknow on the WHY behind every law of Islam but I can guess and my assumption may not be true

The punishment is threatning those who paint in the purpose of god's challenging god by their talent who says look I can create as god's creature or better , I think the punishment is for those

But Allah knows better
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
But much hadiths are usually critcizing jews of being hypocritical of their belief

Ask the questions, which Jews? Where? and, at what time?

I do see this happen with uneducated Sunnis from time to time, who let antisemitic rhetoric in through projecting onto what was written about a specific tribe on the outskirts of Mecca.
Heck, even Jesus in the NT criticized a specific group of Jews for reasons that have become ironically infused into some modern Christian subcultures.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't have big kniwlknow on the WHY behind every law of Islam but I can guess and my assumption may not be true

The punishment is threatning those who paint in the purpose of god's challenging god by their talent who says look I can create as god's creature or better , I think the punishment is for those

But Allah knows better
Can't a photo can be worshiped just as easily as a drawing?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
According to my readings on hadiths. Its mentioned several times that "image making" is punished by hellfire.

Now if i were to take a liberal interpretation of this. Maybe this is in context to idol worship, and not actual depictions (though the thing that sorta is allowed is to depict inanimate stuff like nature). I mean Muhammad in past was depicted by Muslims afterall (though not sure of its religious cultural origin). Unless one wanna argue that they didnt know much.

But here is sources for it. Just wondering your views on it?

Depictions of Muhammad - Wikipedia

Hadith - The Book of Adornment - Sunan an-Nasa'i - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith - The Chapters on Business Transactions - Sunan Ibn Majah - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith - The Book of Clothes and Adornment - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith - Book of Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar) - Sahih al-Bukhari - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith - The Book of Clothes and Adornment - Sahih Muslim - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Not sure if this is a contradiction though?
Hadith - The Chapters on Marriage - Sunan Ibn Majah - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)
Hadith - Book of General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab) - Sunan Abi Dawud - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

There are more of this. But i have trouble finding it. Either case. I just am overall wondering how this works

Some interesting references.

My understanding is that only the Quran is the authoritative Word of God. Hadiths are stories and as you may know millions of them have been proven to be fakes and fraudulent.

So the way we can distinguish the true hadiths from the false ones is by comparing them to what is revealed by God in the Quran.

If the Hadith supports the text of the Quran good and well, but if it conflicts with the Word of God it is nothing but a fabrication.

The standard as far as I’m concerned is the Quran by which truth can be distinguished from falsehood.
 
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