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Comparing Catholic Beliefs with the Teachings of Jesus in Scripture

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Since Solomon was gifted with Godly wisdom, his satires were a commentary on the futility of this life. And because the "sacred mystery" of the kingdom was yet to be clarified only after the outpouring of holy spirit received by Jesus' disciples at Pentecost, his words still convey the same meaning that many today lament. What is the point of this life, full of vanity and suffering? We have a full understanding now, as Daniel foretold we would have, in this "time of the end". (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)



Do you believe that God's word is his....or man's?
If it is God's word, then he controls what is included in it. If it is man's word, then God is deliberately misleading the whole world....yet, God said that satan is the greatest deceiver in this world. (1 John 5:19) We choose who to believe.....but, do people know when they are deceived? The master deceiver has had a very long time to perfect his craft.



It was a demon impersonating Samuel. The prophet was dead, and Saul had lost God's favor. If his living prophets refused to speak to Saul, why would a dead prophet speak to a man, using a forbidden means of communication, to tell him anything? Use your reasoning skills. Let the Bible itself explain.



This passage has lost something in the translation. The Bible does not contradict itself. The earthquake was a strong one and it is not at all unusual for graves to be upturned and the bodies of the dead exposed. A reading of that vague passage can also be understood to indicate that it was the people who observed the exposed bodies who went into the city to report it.



As I have mentioned, "holy ones" are spoken about in the OT part of the Bible, but they are not part of those with "the heavenly calling". Only those taken into the new covenant, instituted by Jesus just before his death, are those he promised to be "saints" (holy ones) in a special capacity to become 'kings and priests' and rule with Christ in his Kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) No pre-Christian servant of God had that expectation....not even the apostles, at first.

Now, if the bodies of those saints were in fact resurrected, where are they? Where is there any mention of them after that brief account, and only in one of the gospels, by Matthew? Surely it would have been a big deal? No other mention is made of it. Or what these "saints" did or where they went.

The resurrection of the saints is said to be to immortal life in heaven. These "saints" were supposedly flesh and blood, walking about. That does not fit the Bible's scenario at all. It is clearly a misinterpretation.



This is also misinterpreted. Jesus was dead in his tomb for all three days. He did not go anywhere during that time, any more than Jonah went anywhere whilst confined to the belly of the sea creature who swallowed him. Jesus said that he would be in the heart of the earth just like Jonah was in the belly of the fish. (Matthew 12:38-40)
The Bible says that in the spirit, he "made a proclaimation to the spirits in prison"...what spirits are these?

I'll let Peter explain.....

"For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water." (1 Peter 3:18-20 - NRSV)

You can see if you read this scripture, that people assume that Jesus was resurrected before the three days he said he would be in the tomb....but he was dead all that time. So when he was resurrected, he did go to deliver a judgment message to the wicked spirits who were disobedient in Noah's day. It was not the spirits of former humans. There are no such things as spirits of the dead.

What prison are these spirits occupying?

"And the angels who did not keep their own position, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains in deepest darkness for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6 - NRSV)


"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment; and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he saved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood on a world of the ungodly; and if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example of what is coming to the ungodly". (2 Peter 2:4-6 NRSV)

The "spirits" were rebel angels who materialized in Noah's day and caused the world of that time to be plunged into an extreme level of violence and immorality. God put a stop to it by eliminating that world and its wicked inhabitants, and forcing those wicked angels back to the spirit realm where he placed them under restraint. Not in "hell" as this erroneous translation indicates but in what is called "Tartarus". It is a condition, more than an actual prison. They were no longer able to take on human flesh.....a restriction, but not something that makes it impossible for them to cause trouble, which they continue to do.

Deeje wrote…….. You can see if you read this scripture, that people assume that Jesus was resurrected before the three days he said he would be in the tomb....but he was dead all that time. So when he was resurrected, he did go to deliver a judgment message to the wicked spirits who were disobedient in Noah's day. It was not the spirits of former humans. There are no such things as spirits of the dead.

The Anointed………. Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross, deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

You must continue to believe as you were taught by the false prophets and their underlings. While I continue to believe the truth as revealed in the scriptures, it was while he was dead in the flesh but alive in the spirit and before he was resurrected in a physical body that could eat and drink like all human beings that he descended into hades and preached the Good News to the dead

New World Translation of the few Scriptures that the church of Emperor Constantine had his priests compiled into the canon of the Roman Church; Luke 24: Cleophas, who with his son Simon, who had met the risen Christ, as they had walked to Emmaus, came back to Jerusalem and entered the darkened room in which were the 11 disciples, just then Jesus appeared also in the room and the disciples were terrified believing that he was a spirit, (The disciples believed in spirits)Jesus then said to them; "24: 38; "Why are you troubled, and why is it that doubts come up in your hearts? (39) See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: feel me and see; because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have, etc.

This was after he had been dead in the flesh and alive in spirit and had descended into hades to preach to the dead and after his physical body came out of the tomb.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Why did you ignore my question? Do you have anyone who believes as you do? Are you a church of many or just one?

If these things are your very own ideas, then I am sorry, you have just disqualified everything you have said.

Jesus does not head a church of one.

Crucifixion was a rite in the mysteries of many countries and especially those of Egypt, See ‘The Secret Doctrines,’ vol. 11, p. 558. The initiated adept, who had successfully passed all the trials, was tied to a cross, deep inside a Temple Crypt or cave, he was then drugged and plunged into a deep sleep in which state, in the darkness of the bowels of the earth, he remained for three days and three nights, during which time his spirit=mind, is said to have descended into Hades to communicate with the Gods.

What has that got to do with anything? The Secret Doctrines eh? If they are not part of God's word I couldn't care less what they say.

As Solomon wrote of himself....
"Not only had the congregator become wise but he continually taught the people what he knew, and he pondered and made a thorough search in order to compile many proverbs. 10 The congregator sought to find delightful words and to record accurate words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are like oxgoads, and their collected sayings are like firmly embedded nails; they have been given from one shepherd. 12 As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh.

13 The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. 14 For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad."
(Ecclesiastes 12:9-14)

This is what I live by. Apparently God's word is not all his from your perspective.....you can pick and choose which parts you accept and which you will reject.......you are welcome to your view, but please don't pretend that you alone must have the truth. Christianity is not a one man band.

You must continue to believe as you were taught by the false prophets and their underlings. While I continue to believe the truth as revealed in the scriptures, it was while he was dead in the flesh but alive in the spirit and before he was resurrected in a physical body that could eat and drink like all human beings that he descended into hades and preached the Good News to the dead

Who told you that what you believe is the truth? You? :shrug:

Christ was not resurrected in a physical body as Peter clearly stated. As a spirit, he could materialize fleshly bodies in order to "appear" to his disciples, which he did on many occasions during the 40 days he remained on earth.

Spirit beings who were used to convey messages to God's servants on earth, invariably appeared in fleshly bodies and they ate and drank like any other humans. When Gabriel appeared to Mary to inform her of her coming role in producing the Messiah, he was in the form of a man, as he was when he appeared to Daniel centuries earlier. God's law forbade communication with spirits, so Jesus and the angels appeared as men. The only other way that God communicated was by visions and dreams.

Jesus on one occasion appeared in a locked room and when he broke bread they recognized him and he simply disappeared before their eyes. He was not raised as a man of flesh and blood. He did not stay with his apostles during the time he remained, as he had for the previous three and a half years, but only appeared to them.

Luke 24: Cleophas, who with his son Simon, who had met the risen Christ, as they had walked to Emmaus, came back to Jerusalem and entered the darkened room in which were the 11 disciples, just then Jesus appeared also in the room and the disciples were terrified believing that he was a spirit, (The disciples believed in spirits)Jesus then said to them; "24: 38; "Why are you troubled, and why is it that doubts come up in your hearts? (39) See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: feel me and see; because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have, etc.

Yes, Jesus would never have compromised God's law regarding communication with spirits, so he appeared as a man, and not always recognizable. It was as easy for Jesus to materialize a body with wounds to convince his disciples that he was raised from the dead.

Even as he was ascending to his Father, he was obscured by a cloud as he shed the body he had made for his last visit with them. He was raised as a spirit because flesh and blood cannot live in heaven. Physical bodies are designed to live in a physical realm......spirit bodies were designed for a spiritual realm. That is surely not difficult to understand...is it?

This was after he had been dead in the flesh and alive in spirit and had descended into hades to preach to the dead and after his physical body came out of the tomb.

Who said he descended into hades to preach to the dead? Who said that the spirits were former humans? Who said that Jesus' fleshly body came out of the tomb? The Bible does not teach this. You are assuming it.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Who else believes what you believe? How do you know that your own version of events is correct? I'll stick to what has been presented as truth to me. I have examined it carefully and I find it compelling....I don't find your version anywhere near as accurate as those of my own brotherhood. Do you have a brotherhood? Who are they? Do you meet with them as the first Christians did?

We believe this too....so it looks like you got some of it right.

You are free to believe whatever you wish. But, what if its you in the dark? How would you know?

Do I turn to the traditions of so called "wise and intelligent" (Matthew 11:25) men, who call themselves "leaders" (Matthew 23:10) to establish my positions, or do I refer to the Law and the prophets, the testimony of Yeshua, along with historical evidence to provide grounding for my positions. Constantine "deceived" "those who dwell on the earth", yet you absorb as truth, the traditions of men, and the canon which the Roman church instituted, and which you use, to build your "house" (Matthew 7:24-27). One eats the bread of life, contaminated by the leaven of the Pharisee, at their own risk. (Matthew 16:6) Your "brotherhood", along with the Mormons, claim to be "saints". History and current events tells another story. You have missed the meaning of the "kingdom heaven is at hand", and twisted the message of the coming kingdom, the millennium. Revelation most often comes at the price of fasting, as Daniel, one man, understood, and he fasted 3 weeks for one partial revelation (Daniel 10:3). He did not go to the JW library. One must seek truth with their whole mind, body, and spirit, not turn to what is plated up for you at the JW hall.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Most of you guys apparently even haven't read the bible,

You could not be more wrong. As Catholics we understand the 'word' in 'God's word' is human, though inspired by God is written within human limitations of a particular time and culture. The aim of exegesis is to read individual texts within the totality of the one Scripture, which then sheds light on all the individual texts, the unity of Scripture as a whole.

Judging from the rest of your post you have been 'indoctrinated' into literalism.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
@Deeje, why do Jehovah witnesses celebrate and honor the sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday? According to 7th day adventists, you are going to hell along with all the Roman Catholics, because Gods day is Saturday and it was the Roman Church who changed it to Sunday.

.. And the 7th day adventists are right! The Roman Church did change it from Saturday to Sunday!
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
. When I went to a public school, the students were a mix of Protestants, and they were just as indoctrinated as anyone from a parochial school, just in different ways. The difference between the Protestants and the Catholics is only on the surface. Like mother, like daughter. At that time, the Catholics were still in the role of Luther's, the "whore of Babylon". Actually, the Roman Church is simply a leading daughter of Babylon. (Revelation 17:5) Her sister/daughters, the Protestant share much the same false core beliefs. According to Ezekiel 34, the shepherds, and the sheep will all be judged, and "one shepherd", "David", will be placed over all the sheep. The "fat" and the "strong", "I will destroy", "I will feed them with judgment" (Ezekiel 34:16). You might want to consider joining Weight Watchers.
Roughly two-thirds of adults, nearly 30% of children are overweight or obese
The vast majority of American adults are overweight or obese, and weight is a growing problem among US children

Jehovah's Witness is also under the umbrella of the Catholic Church, whether they realize it or not. Anyone who goes to Church on Sunday, and celebrates Sunday as the Lords day is following Catholicism.

Sunday is the 1st day of the week. Always has been!
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Jehovah's Witness is also under the umbrella of the Catholic Church, whether they realize it or not. Anyone who goes to Church on Sunday, and celebrates Sunday as the Lords day is following Catholicism.

Sunday is the 1st day of the week. Always has been!

I am not a JW, but you are correct about them worshipping the sun god on his day of worship, Sunday. That is simply part of the mark of the beast, which was decreed by his devotee, Constantine in the year 321 AD.


Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)





On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You could not be more wrong. As Catholics we understand the 'word' in 'God's word' is human, though inspired by God is written within human limitations of a particular time and culture. The aim of exegesis is to read individual texts within the totality of the one Scripture, which then sheds light on all the individual texts, the unity of Scripture as a whole.

Judging from the rest of your post you have been 'indoctrinated' into literalism.

I was in the Catholic church closer to the time when they tried to burn people alive for translating the bible into a language that people could actually read, and when they burned books for being outside of their wobbly traditions. As for reading the "Scripture", it must be read in the light of the whole, and without making part "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13), nor nailing parts to the cross. If you take out the wheat part, and leave the leaven, the hypocrisy, what have you got?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@Deeje, why do Jehovah witnesses celebrate and honor the sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday? According to 7th day adventists, you are going to hell along with all the Roman Catholics, because Gods day is Saturday and it was the Roman Church who changed it to Sunday.

.. And the 7th day adventists are right! The Roman Church did change it from Saturday to Sunday!

Actually we do not observe a Sabbath at all....because it was given for Jews only. It is a very personal observation for them, but not incumbent upon Gentiles.

Exodus 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.”

Romans 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.”
The Sabbath was part of that law. It is not commanded for Christians.

It was the Roman Catholic Church who changed the "Sabbath" to Sunday, a day pagan Romans had already dedicated to the sun. Sun worship rears it head again.

We hold some of our meetings on Sunday because of convenience rather than anything else. Some hold their meetings on Saturday or even on an evening during the week. It depends on the circumstances of the congregation members who individually decide their own meeting times. Some who share a Kingdom Hall will work with one another to coordinate meeting times. No specific day is chosen.

And we don't believe in hell either.....if you'd like to discuss that?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Do I turn to the traditions of so called "wise and intelligent" (Matthew 11:25) men, who call themselves "leaders" (Matthew 23:10) to establish my positions, or do I refer to the Law and the prophets, the testimony of Yeshua, along with historical evidence to provide grounding for my positions.

So you are a loner. A church of one. When has God not used men to lead his people? Christianity is not a one man band.

Constantine "deceived" "those who dwell on the earth", yet you absorb as truth, the traditions of men, and the canon which the Roman church instituted, and which you use, to build your "house"

Constantine did what was foretold by Jesus and the apostles.
But he could not have changed anything so drastically unless "Christianity" itself was in a spiritually weak condition. From the death of the apostles it did not take long for the rot to set in.

The choice of what to include in the Bible canon was really nothing to do with the church. It is God's word and he can use even his enemies to accomplish his will. Do you doubt his ability to inspire and preserve his own word? It appears so....are you his champion, yelling at the world that only you have the truth? How are you different to the other poster here who is doing the same thing?

Your "brotherhood", along with the Mormons, claim to be "saints".

The majority ofJehovah's Witnesses are not saints at all. In fact the "anointed" among us are only a few thousand among millions.
We don't choose to be saints, but certain individuals are chosen for a role in heaven. They are not given any special treatment and you would not even know who was anointed and who was. We are all one flock with one shepherd.....just with different destinations. We love them, they love us. There is no earthly glory.

History and current events tells another story. You have missed the meaning of the "kingdom heaven is at hand", and twisted the message of the coming kingdom, the millennium.

Or perhaps you are mistaken. How would you know? Who is there to correct you? You?

Revelation most often comes at the price of fasting, as Daniel, one man, understood, and he fasted 3 weeks for one partial revelation (Daniel 10:3). He did not go to the JW library. One must seek truth with their whole mind, body, and spirit, not turn to

Where is fasting part of Jesus' instruction? Where is fasting commanded for Christians? I agree it is very beneficial for health reasons, but thinking that only you know the deep things of scripture because you follow some self prescribed regime, means nothing to anyone but you. Do you think Jesus is somehow using you to preach to the world? All the best with that. Individuals don't matter......Christiani, right from the beginning was a collective. Right off the bat, Jesus chose 12 men to teach them how to carry on his work after him.....not one, but many were used to add more "sheep" to the flock, under the guidance of the Fine Shepherd.

You appear to be your own shepherd. How does that work?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Sunday is the 1st day of the week. Always has been!

The Sabbath was the last day of the week. So why was it moved to Sunday, and why was it even observed? There is no command for anyone but Jews to observe the Sabbath.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I wonder from whom you learned that? Not Jesus!

:facepalm: Perhaps a little perception that is less self focused is in order. In the context of that statement is the thought that no one in the congregation, either anointed or other sheep is more or less important than another. All are important to Jesus.....
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Where is fasting part of Jesus' instruction?

You are to "sell your possessions" and "follow me" (Matthew 19:21), and apparently Yeshua fasted 40 days and 40 nights (Matthew 4:2). Now I can see where you might have objections to reading the "sell your possessions, and give to the poor", and not able to reach the "follow me", which is to say, follow my example.

King James Bible 9:29
And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The Sabbath was the last day of the week. So why was it moved to Sunday, and why was it even observed? There is no command for anyone but Jews to observe the Sabbath.

Any "foreigners" who want to "joint themselves to the Lord", must keep "from profaning the Sabbath", and hold fast "My covenant". (Isaiah 56:6).
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Please tell me how.....

You apparently do not keep the "Sabbath" holy, the 7th day, and attempt to worship your god on the day of the sun, the first day of the week. The problem being is that you can only worship God in Spirit and in Truth. The god you worship on the day of the sun, seems to be rooted in the 321 AD decree of Constantine, the beast with two horns like a lamb. The creator of all men, rested on the 7th day. Just because you are woman, does not mean you were not created by God. It is true that the Sabbath rest was to be a sign between God and his people, but if you want to claim to be one of God's people, you might want to get with the program. When the lemmings start falling off the cliff, that is a good time to get out of town.

Isaiah 56: 6“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;


7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”


Constantine's law of…321 [C.E] uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire…, was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian's establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun…. Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day. (Cramer 4)


On March 7, 321, Sunday was declared the official day of rest, on which markets were banned and public offices were closed,
[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great_and_Christianity
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Deeje wrote......Yes, Jesus would never have compromised God's law regarding communication with spirits, so he appeared as a man, and not always recognizable. It was as easy for Jesus to materialize a body with wounds to convince his disciples that he was raised from the dead.

The Anointed...…..
Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord's face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Most High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel, which could save but one man) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

It was to the living spirit of Enoch, (The Chosen Cornerstone) that the righteous spirits of his post-flood descendants were gathered in the creation of the Great and glorious simulacrum at the ends of time, which Simulacrum is the sacrifice that God has prepared for us, and the blue-print of the new Temple of God [The glorious incorruptible bodies of Light] which are to replace his old temporary earthly tabernacle/tent [The Body of Mankind] as the ruler of the creation, of which Enoch was the chosen cornerstone, and that Simulacrum, which Enoch had become, dies in the process of involution, to be the saviour of we in evolution. This he does by releasing all the righteous spirits that are He, from the least to the greatest, and the man Enoch from the old world that was destroyed by water was the first to be released, but not until he had learned through suffering to become perfect in his ascension and evolution, and was born again as the man Jesus.

1 Peter; 1: 20-21; He was chosen by God before the creation of the world. (Not the world that was destroyed by water, but this world which is destined to be destroyed by fire, before God creates for us a new heavens and a new earth) and was revealed in these last days for your sake. Through him you believe in God, who raised him from death and gave him glory; and so your faith and hope are fixed on God.

Hebrews 11: 5; “By faith Enoch was translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

The only man to have ascended to the ends of all time and Anointed as the heir to the throne of the Most High in the creation and who was translated so as to never see death, and this man, plays absolutely no part in the belief of the universal/Catholic church of Constantine: and her denominational daughters who were spawned from her “The Stone that the builder's rejected, has turned out to be the most important stone of all."

Jesus, whose righteous ancestors had paid the blood price for sin and had been judged and separated from the unrighteous dead and gathered to the evolving and ascending spirit of Enoch, within the bosom of Abraham over whom death no longer had any power, and Jesus was the duplication of Enoch our indwelling evolving righteous ancestral spirit, as he had evolved to some 2,000 years ago, and he was offered up as a sacrifice by our spiritual father. And in the same manner as God had prepared a substitute sacrifice for Isaac the son of God’s promise who, like Jesus, was born according to the workings/power of the Holy Spirit, so too had he prepared a substitute offering for Jesus, who Enoch had become at that particular point in time, in his evolution as the sin offering “The brilliant Simulacrum,” of which Enoch was the chosen corner-stone, and the head.

On the cross, Jesus cried out, “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me," as he gave up his spirit and the evolving indwelling spiritual Enoch, the first to be released from the brilliant Simulacrum at the ends of time, The anointed one, the Christ, ceased to be an individual entity, as the graves of the spirits, of who he was their compilation, and by who he had evolved, up until that point in time, were opened, and three days later, they [The body of Christ the anointed one] entered the city of Jerusalem, where they showed themselves as the risen Christ.

From the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Matthew 27: 52, And the memorial tombs/graves were opened: and many bodies of the Holy Ones/saints that had fallen asleep arose. Verse 53, And persons coming out of the memorial tombs (Which we have already been told were the Holy Ones/Saints who had fallen asleep) after his being raised up, entered into the Holy city and BECAME VISIBLE to many.

One would expect the risen body of the anointed one to appear to the family of Jesus first, and this is exactly what we see.

The first to see one of they, who were of the body of the risen Christ, the 365 day old unblemished Lamb, the sacrificial offering prepared for us by God, were his Mother, Mary the wife of Cleophas and her [daughter-in-law] Mary Magdalene, who, although looking straight at him, thought that he was the gardener, until he spoke her name.

The next to who one of the risen body of Christ appeared, were the carpenter ‘Cleophas’ who is also called Alpheas, and Simon/Simeon the half-brother of Jesus, who was to inherit the Episcopal throne of the church of the circumcision after his half-brother, 'James the righteous,' was killed at the instigation of the same Sadducee sect that had Jesus the full brother of James killed.

Although Cleophas and Simon walked and talked with one of the risen body of Christ for some 11 kilometres to the small town of Emmaus, they did not recognise him for who he was, until Simon saw the manner in which he broke the bread.

See John 20: 19 to 24; Cleophas then returned to Jerusalem, where the disciples, which included Simon Peter and Simon the Patriot, the only two of the twelve disciples by the name Simon, were cowering in a darkened room. The only one of the twelve who was absent that evening when Jesus appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they recognised as Jesus, was Thomas Jude another half-brother of Jesus, the one who was called the Twin, although nowhere does the bible say that he was an actual twin or whether he just held a striking resemblance to someone else, perhaps one with who he shared a common father.

But back to Cleophas, who said to the disciples, who would have opened the door for him, "He has risen, he appeared to Simon," who was of course Simon the son of Cleophas and half-brother to Jesus and the one who succeeded ‘James the younger’ as the head of the church founded by their brother Jesus.

It was then that a figure appeared in that dimly lit room in the form that they recognised as Jesus. The following week, Jesus appeared in the locked room, where this time, Thomas who was called the ‘TWIN’ was with the other disciples.

See John 21: 1 to 12; Then there were the seven disciples who were fishing on Lake Galilee having no success at all, when someone on the bank told them to throw their net on the right side of the boat in which they caught 153 fishes, later on while sitting down to eat with the person who had a fire prepared with fish on it and some bread, not one of the seven disciples of Jesus who had walked and talked with him, dared to ask who he was, but they understood that he was of the risen body of Christ. Even when he ascended up into heaven as a cloud, some of the 11 disciples doubted that it was he.


From the Book of Enoch the prophet 108: 11-13; “And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honour as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved My holy name (I Am Who I Am/JHWH,) and I will seat each one on the throne of his honour. And they shall be resplendent for times without number.”
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The majority ofJehovah's Witnesses are not saints at all. In fact the "anointed" among us are only a few thousand among millions.
We don't choose to be saints, but certain individuals are chosen for a role in heaven. They are not given any special treatment and you would not even know who was anointed and who was. We are all one flock with one shepherd.....just with different destinations. We love them, they love us. There is no earthly glory.

I was under the impression you had 144,000. The number apparently randomly taken from Revelation 14, which apparently is listing "celibates", which JWs 144,000, have probably none. As for the "one shepherd", he comes after judgment of the sheep and the goats (Ezekiel 34:17 & 23).
 
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