metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Sure they do.
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The Gospel of John Claims that Jesus is God
- Thread starter 74x12
- Start date
74x12
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the firstborn through birth and through the resurrection. In fact Paul was speaking of the resurrection in Colossians 1:15-18.
Colossians 1:15-18 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
As for Proverbs 8 see post #132
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Sure they do.
Every Jewish person on earth will tell you the same about who God is.--a single being God-YHVH-- Why do you think that John 4:22-24 is the bottom line reality of what a true followers heart accomplishes daily? Jesus warned that ones would not know him on account of Jesus' name-John 15:20-21)-- The real Jesus points his followers to his Father. In the Lords prayer--all about the Father alone. The Fathers will is the only will being accomplished-Matthew 7:21-23 by the true followers. To be one with him as Jesus is, one lives to do the Fathers will-24/7,365 with their whole heart, soul, mind and strength.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Creation of spirit beings occurred prior to the creation of the universe. Proverbs 8 teaches that. The one speaking( created direct-first and last) all other things created through this being( Gods master worker)--The being speaking at Prov 8, came to earth and was named Jesus as a mortal. It is not YHVH speaking.
The firstborn of all creation.
God sent his best= Michael. Daniel 12:1)
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Trinitarian concept posits that there is only one God, which has been explained to you many times before. I've have linked you to the concept of "essence" that helps to explain the concept of the Trinity, but even then you simply don't get it. It's all fine & dandy if you disagree with it, but it's quite unethical to have it saying that which it doesn't say nor imply.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not an angel as we read in Hebrews 1:5-9. He's superior to the angels.
As for Proverbs 8 being about Michael an angel: it's just not possible. It's about wisdom. The whole book of Proverbs is about wisdom. In chapter 8; Solomon personifies wisdom as a female, but it's wisdom.
per·son·i·fi·ca·tion
/pərˌsänəfəˈkāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something nonhuman, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form.
Just like some people personify justice as a woman:
kjw47
Well-Known Member
There was no trinity taught by the true followers of God until the religion that came out of Rome( 2Thess 2:3) popped up and its 33,998 branches.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Jesus is not an angel as we read in Hebrews 1:5-9. He's superior to the angels.
As for Proverbs 8 being about Michael an angel: it's just not possible. It's about wisdom. The whole book of Proverbs is about wisdom. In chapter 8; Solomon personifies wisdom as a female, but it's wisdom.
per·son·i·fi·ca·tion
/pərˌsänəfəˈkāSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the attribution of a personal nature or human characteristics to something nonhuman, or the representation of an abstract quality in human form.
Just like some people personify justice as a woman:
Jesus is superior to the angels( archangel) means chief of the angels.
Jesus became wisdom 1Corinthians 1:30)
Its a living being speaking at Proverbs 8--It is the being who came. Its not God speaking. It is the being God sent( John 5:30)-- It is Michael standing up-Daniel12:1)
74x12
Well-Known Member
Then why would Paul ask "To which of the angels said God at any time" "thou art my Son this day I have begotten thee"
BTW, who is the mother of wisdom since you believe it was literally born in Proverbs 8:24?
So in that case; why did Jesus need to become wisdom; if He was already wisdom from the second He was brought forth in Proverbs 8:24? It doesn't make sense. Sorry.
What Paul means in 1 Corinthians 1:30 is that Jesus has become their wisdom, their righteousness, and their sanctification because they trusted in Him. So that we would not boast in ourselves but in Jesus. So if anyone asks me "why are you wise?" They may reply that they are not wise. Jesus is my wisdom because I trusted in Him. Or if they say "why are you righteous?" they could reply that I am not righteous and my righteousness comes from Jesus. Or why are you holy? Because Jesus is holiness for me.
It is indeed an aspect of God's nature and it's being personified for literary effect. In Romans 16:27 we find that God is the "only wise God".
kjw47
Well-Known Member
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Please show us the supposed history on that, including linking us to your source.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Yes, Believe Jesus and believe in Jesus. We are complete in Jesus and don't need anyone else. Because the fullness of God dwells in Him bodily.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Paul a chosen bible writer tells all--1Corinthians 8:6--There is ONE God to ALL, the FATHER. Its basically the #1 teaching in the NT, Jesus has a God, his Father--John 20:17, Revelation 3:12-Jesus)-- 2Corinthians 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6, 1Cor 15:24-28, Ephesians 1: 13, 17,, Collosians 1:3- Paul) 1Peter 1:3- Peter)--- Revelation 1:6-John)
Trinity translations teach 2 different gods. Because everyone of those passages above say only the Father is God. An error of a capitol G God in the last line of John 1:1, And worship to a mortal ( Hebrews 2:7)Jesus are both misleading errors.
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kjw47
Well-Known Member
He appointed his real teachers here in these last days( Matthew 24:45) Luke 10:16)- one must learn from them. God had a single religion on earth in the OT. Jesus started a single religion. It was murdered( in a sense) along with the followers after Jesus and apostles died. It was not the religion that came out of Rome. Truth came back, here in these last days( Daniel 12:4)--Some truth was there all along in the bible, but it wasn't followed. Truth is now abundant.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not only did you not post what I had asked for but then you parrot a falsehood as the Trinitarian concept does not posit "2 different gods". Since this lie is what your JW have taught you to believe, you simply will not get anywhere near the truth on this unless you actually do some studying on your own.
Here's a place you can start:
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus"threefold")[1] holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons[2] or hypostases[3]—the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons". The three Persons are distinct, yet are one "substance, essence or nature" (homoousios).[4] -- Trinity - Wikipedia
74x12
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm not at all convinced by your reasoning. You have not made a very compelling argument in this thread. Secondly, what if the watchtower is wrong or are deceivers? Then wouldn't all the JWs be equally wrong?
kjw47
Well-Known Member
I showed the scriptures backing my post as BIBLE truth. If your teachers are correct. Then explain how God has a God-John 20:17, Rev 3:12.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
I know they are not wrong. God told all to listen to Jesus-John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- Here is the work Jesus began-Luke 10,, Acts 20:20) It doesn't stop until the end. Matthew 24:14
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It has repeatedly been explained.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Read Proverbs 8. This is the being who was sent by (God( YHVH), speaking. It is not God speaking. Only the one he created all other things through can be called his master worker. He tells you he was created at 8:22-26) Collosians 1:15--The firstborn of all creation. Created direct, first and last. The real reason why Jesus has a God. Why else would Jesus have to hand back the kingdom to his God and Father and subject himself( forever)? 1Corinthians 15:24-28)