Bible and the Quaran - same god

jewscout · Sep 27, 2006

writer said:
59 ummm actually it does
ummm, actually it duzn't. But, in case u believe yourself: care to share any place(s)?
Thanks

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 21:12 And G-d said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee.

is the seed Isaac or "christ"? hmmm

Jesus says in the Book of John, "I am the truth, the way and the life, no one comes unto the Father but through me."

yet Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

now maybe from a christian perspective there is no contradiction here....but from where i'm sitting...big contradiction

writer · Sep 27, 2006

62 is the seed Isaac or "christ"? hmmm
Hmmm. Both. And they both got offered up (Gen 22:10).
Who's seed of Isaac...?
Christ

I am the truth, the way and the life, no one comes unto the Father but through me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
now maybe from a christian perspective there is no contradiction here.
You're rite

but from where i'm sitting...big contradiction
What?

my soul be attatched like umbilical cord to L-rd, HaShem Elokim the One G-d - JewDa Maccabi
he who's joined to the Lord's one spirit -
Paul, ex-Pharisee.
Thanx

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

Hmmm. Both. And they both got offered up (Gen 22:10).
Who's seed of Isaac...?
Christ

Galatian's author is saying that the text is referring to a single seed, one individual. Galatians claims it is Jesus, Genesis says it is Isaac. It can not be both.

I am the truth, the way and the life, no one comes unto the Father but through me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
now maybe from a christian perspective there is no contradiction here.
You're rite

but from where i'm sitting...big contradiction
What?

i'm a jew, for me to place anyone between me and hashem is an act of idolatry

for Jesus to say, you gotta go through me first to get to G-d, is a contradiction from a jewish perspective, with the commandment above...i go through no man or angel to seek G-d. therefore, from a jewish perspective, it contradicts torah.

my soul be attatched like umbilical cord to L-rd, HaShem Elokim the One G-d - JewDa Maccabi
he who's joined to the Lord's one spirit -
Paul, ex-Pharisee.
Thanx

Click to expand...

huh?? why are you quoting song lyrics?

angellous_evangellous · Sep 28, 2006

jewscout said:
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 21:12 And G-d said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee.

is the seed Isaac or "christ"? hmmm

Jewscout,

Believe me, you have my sympathy in the inconsistency between Judaism and Christianity, but this is not a good example.

In Galatians, the quote ends with "and to thy seed," and Paul adds his interpretation of the seed, "which is [Jesus] Christ." While "Christ" or "Messiah" can be used in the Hebrew for anyone God chooses, in the NT it is used only with reference to Jesus.

Jesus says in the Book of John, "I am the truth, the way and the life, no one comes unto the Father but through me."

yet Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

now maybe from a christian perspective there is no contradiction here....but from where i'm sitting...big contradiction

Yes, we've redefined a few things...

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

Jewscout,

Believe me, you have my sympathy in the inconsistency between Judaism and Christianity, but this is not a good example.

In Galatians, the quote ends with "and to thy seed," and Paul adds his interpretation of the seed, "which is [Jesus] Christ." While "Christ" or "Messiah" can be used in the Hebrew for anyone God chooses, in the NT it is used only with reference to Jesus.

hmmm actually i think this is an example of the inconsistancies...as HaShem is saying that Abraham's seed, singular, refers to Isaac while Paul, whose teachings are a huge part of many sects of christianity, is insisting it is the figure of Jesus. When he uses the term "Christ" or "Messiah" who else is he going to be talking about?

Yes, we've redefined a few things...

which doesn't bother me...just so long as we understand that one's an orange and the other's an apple...if you get what i'm saying.

angellous_evangellous · Sep 28, 2006

jewscout said:
hmmm actually i think this is an example of the inconsistancies...as HaShem is saying that Abraham's seed, singular, refers to Isaac while Paul, whose teachings are a huge part of many sects of christianity, is insisting it is the figure of Jesus. When he uses the term "Christ" or "Messiah" who else is he going to be talking about?

Ah - I see more clearly how you're reading this...

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

angellous_evangellous said:
Ah - I see more clearly how you're reading this...

good, i was afraid it was just me

ProfLogic · Sep 28, 2006

Jew Scout,

In reading the site about the origins of judaism.. the torah was given to moses along with the ten commandments... What would the motivation of the writers of the OT to leave out the other information that the self proclaimed god has shared as depicted in the origins of the torah? Since Moses spent a bit of time up on the mountains it appears that not just the 10 commandments were given.

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

ProfLogic said:
Jew Scout,

In reading the site about the origins of judaism.. the torah was given to moses along with the ten commandments... What would the motivation of the writers of the OT to leave out the other information that the self proclaimed god has shared as depicted in the origins of the torah? Since Moses spent a bit of time up on the mountains it appears that not just the 10 commandments were given.

i'm not sure i understand the question...

writer · Sep 28, 2006

64 Galatian's author is saying that the text is referring to a single seed, one individual. Galatians claims it is Jesus, Genesis says it is Isaac. It can not be both.
To the contrary: Christ wasn't born yet in Isaac's time. He came about 2,000 years later. And He's from Isaac

i'm a jew, for me to place anyone between me and hashem is an act of idolatry.
God's a Jew. And for Him to have become flesh's not idolatry.
It's....................Him

for Jesus to say, you gotta go through me first to get to G-d, is a contradiction from a jewish perspective, with the commandment above.
To the contrary: Son and Father, Sent and Sender, are inseparable. According to Isaiah, Zechariah, Jesus, Paul, and John. All Jews. "Sign deep as Sheol, high as high can go: the damsel will conceive and bear a son and call His name God With Us...a child's born to us, a Son's given to us, His name will be called Mighty God, Eternal Father." "Says Jehovah: He has sent Me. Jehovah has sent Me, I'm coming says Jehovah...Jehovah's feet will stannd in that day on the Mount of Olives" (Isa 7:11, 14; Zech 2:8-10; 14:3-4; John 10:30, 38; 14:9-11)

i go through no man or angel to seek G-d. therefore, from a jewish perspective, it contradicts torah.
To the contrary: according to the Torah of Moses, the man who visited, spoke with, and in the latter's case wrestled with, Abraham and Jacob; the Angel of Jehovah, who visited the author of the Torah, Moses, and their other descendants; IS Jehovah.
Not separate from Him (Genesis 18:1, 13, 22, 26, 33; 32:22-31; 48:15-16; Exodus 3:2, 4, 6-7, 12-15, etc; 12:12, 23; 14:19). So too through the rest of the Prophets and Writings (eg Judges 13:17-22; Daniel 3:25). There's only One Jehovah

why are you quoting song lyrics?
Cuz i like singing Paul, the ex-Pharisee's 1 Corinthians 6:17, mebbe as much as u like JewDa Maccabi's quote

Thanks

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

again...the difference between Jewish and christian interpretation of the text...

Judaism says G-d has no form...from our perspective G-d does not become flesh
such is contrary to the nature of G-d's infinity.

To the contrary: Son and Father, Sent and Sender, are inseparable

this is a christian teaching...not jewish.

To the contrary: according to the Torah of Moses, the man who visited, spoke with, and in the latter's case wrestled with, Abraham and Jacob; the Angel of Jehovah, who visited the author of the Torah, Moses, and their other descendants; IS Jehovah.

i don't understand your point...i do not pray to any saint, nor angel, nor half man-half deity being...i pray only to HaShem, the One G-d...the only thing you've listed are verses that prove my point...if you are trying to imply that the verses are meant to be literal, judaism does not believe that...G-d has no physical form.

spacemonkey · Sep 28, 2006

writer said:
<57 who exactly is or isn't "misrepresentin Him" ?>
Mohammed, who is deceased, misrepresented Him. As duz his Koran

<How can someone say they are right and the other is wrong when talking about a matter of faith and not fact?>
By faith and by fact. Such as the facts concerning time of writing and influence of writing (including "plagiarism") mentioned in my last post

<It seems to me that just about every religion (including ancient pagan polytheism) tell the same stories that contain the same message, one that is completely missed when people fight over the minute details.>
I find neither God, nor God becoming flesh, minute.
Thanx

See, this is what I'm talking about. You dismiss Islam as incorrect without providing a SHRED of substansial evidence to back it up. Islam does the same thing. Guess what guys, YOUR HOLY WRITINGS (both Bible and Qur'an) ARE NOT PROOF OF ANYTHING except that there were some people long ago who liked to tell stories. It makes me wonder if in 1000 years or so if their are going to be "Koreshians". He claimed to be the son of god, he had a small band of devoted followers, and he too was killed by the government. My point here is that just because these writings are old doesn't mean they are infallible.

spacemonkey · Sep 28, 2006

jewscout said:
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 21:12 And G-d said unto Abraham: 'Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall seed be called to thee.

is the seed Isaac or "christ"? hmmm

Jesus says in the Book of John, "I am the truth, the way and the life, no one comes unto the Father but through me."

yet Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.

now maybe from a christian perspective there is no contradiction here....but from where i'm sitting...big contradiction

There is no contradiction here from a gnostic point of view, because the being who made the statement in Exodus is not the same one the Jesus refers too.

jewscout · Sep 28, 2006

spacemonkey said:
There is no contradiction here from a gnostic point of view, because the being who made the statement in Exodus is not the same one the Jesus refers too.

who or what do gnostics believe it was?

Bangbang · Sep 28, 2006

I am a former JW and carbon dating was discredited as Satans way of tricking people into believing in evolution. Check this out.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html

ProfLogic · Sep 28, 2006

ProfLogic said:
Jew Scout,

In reading the site about the origins of judaism.. the torah was given to moses along with the ten commandments... What would the motivation of the writers of the OT to leave out the other information that the self proclaimed god has shared as depicted in the origins of the torah? Since Moses spent a bit of time up on the mountains it appears that not just the 10 commandments were given.

jewscout said:
i'm not sure i understand the question...

If in Judaism moses got more than the ten commandments from the self procalimed god, what might be the motive of the OT bible authors to leave out the items that are in the torah. Are there reasons/beliefs in judaism why in the OT did they not include the other items that the self proclaimed god had left moses?

ProfLogic · Sep 28, 2006

Bangbang said:
I am a former JW and carbon dating was discredited as Satans way of tricking people into believing in evolution. Check this out.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/jw-book.html

It sounds like the normal defense of believers when something is hard to disprove..... I guess any technological advancement might be viewed as works of satan if soemone had not seen it before. I have christian friends and they would say carbon dating is not proven but never heard it is the work of satan... if it was I say satan keep going since it improves humanities technological knowledge.

Bangbang · Sep 28, 2006

ProfLogic said:
It sounds like the normal defense of believers when something is hard to disprove..... I guess any technological advancement might be viewed as works of satan if soemone had not seen it before. I have christian friends and they would say carbon dating is not proven but never heard it is the work of satan... if it was I say satan keep going since it improves humanities technological knowledge.

Well according to JW's......this is currently Satans System so I guess we got some more technological discoveries to make. Woweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!:grill:

Laila · Sep 28, 2006

writer said:
<53 Abraham the main source. Which means the OT and NT and Torah and Quaran came from the same self proclaimed god.>
The NT's fulfillment of the OT, as far as writings go. And of course duz not contradict it. The Quaran contradicts both OT and N; and, following them by 2,100-1,000 and 500 years respectively; and given the historical context of its creation; it's its own kind of counterfeit

<54 the Koran often refers to other Abrahamic prophets. Now, why would they talk about prophets of a God they don't believe in unless they're trying to denounce them?>
Becuz, in that way, it attempts to usurp them and their authority

<Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same God.>
There's only one God. Which's not to say people are'ncapable of misrepresentin Him

I've just noticed, as I haven't looked at this thread for a while, that I quoted you and actually agreed with what you wrote. Quite amusing really - the message was obviously for vbmenu_register("postmenu_589002", true); jmoum one post above yours. I must focus more on what I'm doing and read the message I post before I actually hit the submit button. What a way to learn - goodness.

spacemonkey · Sep 28, 2006

jewscout said:
who or what do gnostics believe it was?

In Exodus it is the Demiurge who demands worship from man and says that their is no god before him, not the True God that sends his messangers here to try and awaken us.

Bible and the Quaran - same god

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