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Reincarnation and Refining

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
How is it possible to claim to follow a scripture, and at the same time ignore it? It seems to me that the scripture would have to be acknowledged in order for the claim of following it to be made.

In my case, I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to.


regeneration of a body is not resurrection of the spirit. the personality lives once and dies and then the judgement. what then is being judged? the body? the personality? the spirit?? what ever was judged was resurrected.

there are two resurrections possible. some only experience the last one; which is outside the grave and not within the body.

the spiritually dead know nothing, ecclesiastes 9:5. the spiritually resurrected know life is a limitless journey.


being mentally regressing is a choice.
 
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Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
If the dictionary didn't matter, I wouldn't be able to refute your claims so effectively. A thesaurus is not so exacting as a dictionary--it casts a wide net to include all shades of meaning. So in cases where a strict definition is important, it matters less.



Good, because the last thing I would want to do would be to artificially inflate my ego. Being right all the time already makes me vulnerable to an illusion of arrogance resulting from simple self-esteem.

So we're not concerned with my ego here; we're concerned with explaining the concepts of reincarnation, resurrection and resuscitation in a way that will further your education.

Current poll results are:

1. Restoring the dead to life is:
a. Reincarnation (1 vote)
b. Resurrection (4 votes)
c. Resuscutation (1 vote)

2. Reviving the unconscious is:
a. Reincarnation (0 votes)
b. Resurrection (1 vote; this person also voted c in a split vote)
c. Resuscitation (6 votes)

3. Old soul in a new body is:
a. Reincarnation (6 votes)
b. Resurrection (0 votes)
c. Resuscitation (0 votes)



I prefer accuracy and thoroughness.



Not strictly, no. The Venn diagram of both words' full connotations would show some overlap, but resurrection is most commonly used in regards to those who have died, while resuscitation is most commonly used in regards to those who have not yet died (see poll results--or the dictionary, since that matters too).



If we are to believe the Biblical account, Lazarus most likely died twice as a result of miraculous divine intervention. We must also remember that miracles are called that because they defy natural laws--not because they prove that natural laws are wrong. We might as well sit around waiting for our bottles of Evian to turn into Moet & Chandon, just because Jesus once showed that water can turn into wine.

We must also remember that even if one out of every two or three dead persons were routinely resurrected as commonplace occurrences, we would be no closer to determining that reincarnation was possible, since resurrection and reincarnation are two completely different things.



No. The clinically dead are called that to distinguish them from the actually dead. Being "clinically dead" just means that your heart and circulation have stopped. People are not pronounced actually dead until their brain has been without oxygen long enough that it cannot be resuscitated to normal functioning. People who are clinically dead are routinely resuscitated. People who are actually dead have never been resuscitated--unless, of course, you count those one or two cases of miraculous divine intervention.



In this case, good information trumps good luck.



I would never do such a thing. What I have cautioned you against is suggesting that because one or two people in the history of the world have violated the "appointed once to die" rule by miraculous divine intervention, you have somehow established that reincarnation is possible for the general populace. Maybe you could claim that reincarnation MIGHT be possible for one or two people in the history of the world (provided, of course, they are recipients of the necessary miraculous divine intervention)--but even then, since reincarnation requires a different body, even those unique resurrections would be poor indicators of reincarnation's potential.



Being right is all the comfort I need. Being able to receive the truth would comfort you as well.

Good job!

You've admitted a few things here, and I think you deserve some credit for it this Christmas.

1) "...to include all shades of meaning," and "...show some overlap," is a nice way of sidestepping the fact that the two words are synonymous. But, you're right; many synonymous words are not always interchangeable, as they may or may not be used with differing connotations.

2) "If the dictionary didn't matter," is another sidestepping of the fact that the dictionary says,

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/resuscitate said:
to bring someone or something back to life or wake someone or something:

Her heart had stopped, but the doctors successfully resuscitated her.

Notice the "or"? That goes back to the synonym thing. The usage of the word may change connotation.

In our case, I used it very specifically, and here's an exhibition of the first connotation before the 'or' being used:

Clinical death - Wikipedia

As you may or may not see, you're actually wrong about the declaration of death. It's called 'clinical death', and is in relation to the heart, not the brain, specifically. Resuscitation is for the purpose of reintroducing air to the lungs, blood circulation, and brain function, i.e. things necessary for life.

3) "If we are to believe the Biblical account, Lazarus most likely died twice..." Which, is why it's better not to make absolute statements, like you have. Backtracking is fine, as long as you admit it. -- You're forgetting: Daniel's account of resurrection, Elijah's resuscitations, Elisha's resuscitations, Jesus' performances, the raising of the saints, and Peter and Paul's resuscitations. Not one or two instances, as you seem to think.

---


BTW.. Where can I find this poll?
 
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Axe Elf

Prophet
Good job!

I know. It was a pretty airtight case. It was kind of pathetic to see you telling me I was wrong about clinical death, and basically restating exactly what I had said about clinical death as proof that I was wrong. What sense does THAT make?

Anyway, to conclude that you are UNABLE to grasp the errors of your position at this point would be to cast aspersions upon your ability to think rationally, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude that you are merely UNWILLING to admit the errors of your position. Instead, you seem to enjoy the sophistry of constant distraction from the topic by this incessant drumbeat of peripheral irrelevancies.

In either case, unable or unwilling, I think it's clear that you are no longer able to benefit from my corrections and redirections to the topic at hand. Ergo, disengagement seems the most prudent course for me to take at this juncture.

Have a good one!

BTW.. Where can I find this poll?

A Poll to Educate a Fellow RFer
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
I know. It was a pretty airtight case. It was kind of pathetic to see you telling me I was wrong about clinical death, and basically restating exactly what I had said about clinical death as proof that I was wrong. What sense does THAT make?

Anyway, to conclude that you are UNABLE to grasp the errors of your position at this point would be to cast aspersions upon your ability to think rationally, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and conclude that you are merely UNWILLING to admit the errors of your position. Instead, you seem to enjoy the sophistry of constant distraction from the topic by this incessant drumbeat of peripheral irrelevancies.

In either case, unable or unwilling, I think it's clear that you are no longer able to benefit from my corrections and redirections to the topic at hand. Ergo, disengagement seems the most prudent course for me to take at this juncture.

Have a good one!



A Poll to Educate a Fellow RFer


1) That's because you were wrong about clinical death... And resuscitation. It's really not more complicated than that.

2) You made a specific assertion in relation to reincarnation, regarding death. I attacked that assertion; that's how these debates work. I can attack anything you introduce. Ask a moderator, if you need some help.

3) So, you put a poll I originally wanted directed towards Christians, in the 'Everything But' forum.. And then, you don't even use the forum's poll tool, or allow multiple choice. -- You made it harder on the both of us, for what reason? Don't answer that.

Good luck on your travels.
 
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