See, that's called noticing the obvious, and trying to incorporate it into your understanding. How rational of you...
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Evolution is not random -here's why
- Thread starter Cooky
- Start date
Cooky
Veteran Member
Well that's very interesting -these convergent concepts. I'd like to delve into that a little more.
But in the end, they only thing that really matters is not that they were random or nonrandom mutations, but that they have an impact on reproductive success...and therefore carry themselves forward, or not. And if you really stop to think about it, and do the math, that process is cumulative, in the way that compound interest is.
Cooky
Veteran Member
No you do actually. You're an ID creationist!
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Cooky
Veteran Member
Is that what you think?
Cooky
Veteran Member
Oh..! One more thing, since we're on the topic... How do mutations progress? Using the flying rodent as an example, a mutation occurred, and then two mutated animals reproduced over and over, but why or how did the mutation continue on into full blown patagiums?
I understand natural selection, but the mutation itself is a seperate issue.
...Is there some kind of gene that furthers specific mutations to increase?
I understand natural selection, but the mutation itself is a seperate issue.
...Is there some kind of gene that furthers specific mutations to increase?
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There isn't a sense in which a mutation can increase. A form of a gene different to that previously prevalent in the population can arise through mutation, and can be either heterozygous or homozygous (i.e. one or two copies), but it can't really increase. Further phenotypic changes will occur through further mutations.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Natural selection.
Not really. Natural selection results in proliferation of beneficial genes. It's very much related.
No, it's natural selection.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
How so? Without natural selection, mutations are completely irrelevant and can't result in any significant changes in allele frequency at all.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Different animals approached flight from different environmental and physiological directions.
That's all.
Of interest is the statement in Genesis that God commanded the seas to bring forth life. And
from the seas came birds.
Cooky
Veteran Member
Because natural selection cannot 'create' a mutation.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
It's not supposed to. It selects the mutations that confer benefits.
Cooky
Veteran Member
Right. So when a squirrel grows a little tiny extra flap, it takes millions more mutations before the whole patagium is developed. Mutations. Not natural selection but mutations.
This plays into the ever-interesting "convergence" we see in biology so often.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Except that tiny little extra flap would only proliferate if it conferred some form of evolutionary advantage, thus it's driven by natural selection. The mutation of the flap itself is pointless if you don't consider whether or not it increases or decreases the likelihood of the organism's genes spreading. It simply makes sense that if a particular feature confers a distinct evolutionary advantage in multiple environments, mutations that result in that feature - or some variation of it - will be selected for through environmental attrition.
Cooky
Veteran Member
How exactly does natural selection make a tiny flap turn into a full blown patagium? Natural selection makes cells increase how?
Or are you saying that successful mating further activates more recent mutations to mutate further in that same area?
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Once again, natural selection doesn't do anything to the cells. When a mutation is beneficial to the survivability of an organism and its likelihood to produce fertile offspring, natural selection enables that mutation to proliferate. To talk about mutations and not include natural selection when discussing evolution is like discussing building a car without acknowledging the existence of physics. You can build a car any way you like - without physical forces to actually make the car go, you're not actually discussing anything that makes sense.
That's not how evolution works. Mutations are random, but those mutations only matter if they produce a tangible impact on the success of an organisms ability to survive and/or reproduce. If "a small flap of skin" confers an evolutionary advantage, it will proliferate within a population. If small changes and advancements to that "flap of skin" confer further advantages, the same will happen. Evolution doesn't produce a change with the intent of "doing something else with it later".
tas8831
Well-Known Member
And we should care that YOU find this "extremely bazaar [sic] and highly unlikely. So unlikely, that it is impossible"?
Let us see your math and your research, such that you can make so confident a proclamation. And no - googling a few pictures and declaring it all impossible is NOT research.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Wow...
So first, tell us all about this "law of probability." Show us your calculations.
Then, tell us all about these "same mutations."
Tell us what a mutation is, what this specific mutation is and how you know it, etc.
Sorry to say, but I get the distinct impression that you are using words you are not familiar with.