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The Lord Jesus vs. the "

74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
The Lord Jesus vs the Archons ...

Jesus proceeded from the Father into the darkened world and shone as great Light. (Isaiah 9:2) The Light was such that in every place He went the darkness was overthrown and those who were hidden in the darkness (Isaiah 29:15-16) were exposed crying out in terror at His appearance. (Matthew 8:29) And His coming horrified all the rulers who had rebelled against Adonai who had become as gods over the goyim (Psalm 82:6-7) and taught humanity the sins idolatry, adultery with demons (1 Timothy 4:1) and corruption of the image of God. (1 Corinthians 6:18) The rulers conspired together to kill Him; for telling the truth of Adonai. (John 8:40, Psalm 2:2) Because the truth was about to turn many back to sincere worship of Adonai in Israel. (John 12:19) Much of the common people could no longer deny that at the very least a mighty prophet had risen among them. (Luke 7:16) But inadvertently the cosmic rulers fulfilled prophecy. (1 Corinthians 2:8) They realized too late; that they had only facilitated the ultimate victory of mankind over death. (Psalm 102:19-21) Jesus rose from the dead and ascended above all heavens; showing the mighty power of God. (Isaiah 63:1, Colossians 2:15) But also the will of Adonai was displayed in the heavenlies and everywhere. So that all could discern at that point the plan of the Most High. That He would redeem man(His creature) from all his sins and from death itself. For so it was written and could not be altered and Jesus was the Word of Life (1 John 1:1) written into the very DNA of the flesh. (John 1:14)
Now risen above all creation; (Ephesians 4:10) Jesus the Son of man sits on the Right hand of all power (Matthew 28:18, Mark 14:62) and will reign until every last enemy of mankind is placed under His human feet. (Psalm 110:1, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:13) So humanity may have power over every foe small or great through Jesus. (Psalm 8:6, John 16:33, Matthew 28:20) Then and only then will He deliver the restored kingdom up to the Father so that all will again be subject to the Father because Jesus has finished His work. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
74x12 said:
adultery with demons (1 Timothy 4:1)
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Wait, what?

Those people were MARRIED to those demons, I tell you!

(The verse axually says, "But the [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach," lest anyone think people were having sex with demons or something.)
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Axe Elf said:
Wait, what?

Those people were MARRIED to those demons, I tell you!

(The verse axually says, "But the [Holy] Spirit distinctly and expressly declares that in latter times some will turn away from the faith, giving attention to deluding and seducing spirits and doctrines that demons teach," lest anyone think people were having sex with demons or something.)
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Thanks. I definitely meant spiritual adultery.

But ... some demons do have sex with people called incubus or succubus.
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
74x12 said:
Thanks. I definitely meant spiritual adultery.

But ... some demons do have sex with people called incubus or succubus.
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Suck-you-what?

People sometimes dream about having sex with demons, and sometimes those dreams seem very real (especially when they are accompanied by something called "sleep paralysis," which can make people feel that their "demon assailant" is preventing them from volitional movement), but sex with a demon has never axually been documented in real life.

I would hope you know this without me having to tell you, but on here, I can never be sure.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Axe Elf said:
Suck-you-what?

People sometimes dream about having sex with demons, and sometimes those dreams seem very real (especially when they are accompanied by something called "sleep paralysis," which can make people feel that their "demon assailant" is preventing them from volitional movement), but sex with a demon has never axually been documented in real life.

I would hope you know this without me having to tell you, but on here, I can never be sure.
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Some Christians believe that literal human/demon hybrids called "nephilim" existed before the flood.
Wacky, I know.
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
Father Heathen said:
Some Christians believe that literal human/demon hybrids called "nephilim" existed before the flood.
Wacky, I know.
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Well, sort of. The belief is that human women mated with angels (not demons), based on the description in Genesis 6:1-4 of "sons of God" having the hots for, living with, and making wives out of "daughters of men."

But of course, interpreting "sons of God" as "angels" would be ridiculous (and at the same time render moot the NT description of God's "only begotten son"), as "sons of God" is more properly interpreted to be a description of kings and heroes--mortal men whose regality (and egos) artificially elevated them to the status of "sons of God."
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
Father Heathen said:
I thought demons were fallen angels (thus the same "species") occording to Christianity?
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Well, the devils (the Bible never actually calls them "demons," only "devils"--though the Greek word for "devils" is "daemons," which is probly where we get that, but anyway...) were once angels who participated in the rebellion against God in heaven with Satan--but I don't think there's a record of any angels "falling" after that. And in any case, after falling, they would no longer be called "sons of God" as devils/demons.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Axe Elf said:
Well, sort of. The belief is that human women mated with angels (not demons), based on the description in Genesis 6:1-4 of "sons of God" having the hots for, living with, and making wives out of "daughters of men."

But of course, interpreting "sons of God" as "angels" would be ridiculous (and at the same time render moot the NT description of God's "only begotten son"), as "sons of God" is more properly interpreted to be a description of kings and heroes--mortal men whose regality (and egos) artificially elevated them to the status of "sons of God."
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You'll find that indeed the angels are called sons of God. Like in Job 2:1-2 where we see that the "sons of God" came to present themselves before God and satan(a well known fallen angel) presented himself among them.

Job 2:1-2
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Jesus is the only "begotten" Son of God. Begotten means born. Angels were not born but made.
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
74x12 said:
You'll find that indeed the angels are called sons of God. Like in Job 2:1-2 where we see that the "sons of God" came to present themselves before God and satan(a well known fallen angel) presented himself among them.
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Different context.

Use Occam's razor--what's more likely, that angels mated with human women, or that kings and heroes took wives from among the commoners?

Maybe that's where God got the idea of knocking up Mary...
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Axe Elf said:
Well, the devils (the Bible never actually calls them "demons," only "devils"--though the Greek word for "devils" is "daemons," which is probly where we get that, but anyway...) were once angels who participated in the rebellion against God in heaven with Satan--but I don't think there's a record of any angels "falling" after that. And in any case, after falling, they would no longer be called "sons of God" as devils/demons.
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Yeah, doesn't make sense that angels on god's good side would descend to earth to philander with mortal women and create offspring that god would consider abominable. This also ignores the issue with genetics.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen said:
Yeah, doesn't make sense that angels on god's good side would descend to earth to philander with mortal women and create offspring that god would consider abominable. This also ignores the issue with genetics.
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What issue? We humans have finally figured out cloning. But angels are superior to humans in intellect by a large amount. And also gifted with superior knowledge. Basically it would be pretty easy.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
74x12 said:
What issue? We humans have finally figured out cloning. But angels are superior to humans in intellect by a large amount. And also gifted with superior knowledge. Basically it would be pretty easy.
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The point is that being able to breed with humans suggests that they're not only organic lifeforms, but genetically similar enough to be considered members of the homo genus. Angels = winged apes. :D
Then again, that shouldn't be a surprise considering that they're depicted simply as humans with avian wings grafted on in a way that makes no anatomical sense. What a lame, lazy design.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Father Heathen said:
The point is that being able to breed with humans suggests that they're not only organic lifeforms, but genetically similar enough to be considered members of the homo genus. Angels = winged apes. :D
Then again, that shouldn't be a surprise considering that they're depicted simply as humans with avian wings grafted on in a way that makes no anatomical sense. What a lame, lazy design.
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There are thought to be and it's in the scriptures also; many different types of angelic beings. The ones that look like humans are probably the ones called cherubs. However, potentially any type of angelic being could have come to earth. When they come into the physical realm they can take whatever form they need to take. So they can take a human form or other forms. Even animal forms.

The fact they look like we do is because God obviously made both species as similar. This is because God apparently made both in "the image of God". This is why both Adam and the angels are referred to as sons of God. Because they're made in His image.

There is nothing lame or lazy about their design. What you see of angels anyway is symbolic. Everything being symbolism of some kind. Some angels had eagles heads or lion heads etc. The wings are another example of the same basic thing. They're symbolic. One angel called the "metatron" from Rabbinic writing is said to have 72 wings if I remember correctly. That would obviously be a completely redundant amount of wings just to fly with. I suppose that spiritual beings don't really need wings; like we would need wings to fly. But the appearance of angelic beings tells us something about them.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Axe Elf said:
Different context.

Use Occam's razor--what's more likely, that angels mated with human women, or that kings and heroes took wives from among the commoners?

Maybe that's where God got the idea of knocking up Mary...
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Actually ... it's more likely that the text is speaking of angels mating with human women. The supporting evidence from other ancient Jewish literature such as the book of Enoch.

The children of this admittedly odd pairing "sons of God" with "daughters of men" are the ones described as heroes. Or "mighty men of old" "men of renown". This really seems to point to ancient mythological characters. Such as Gilgamesh or Hercules. Both of whom are fathered by gods with earth women. Gilgamesh was said to be 2/3rds god and 1/3 human. Hercules was 1/2 god and 1/2 human.

Just replace "fathered by such and such god" with "fathered by the sons of God also known as angels". In other words, angels came down in ancient times and were apparently regarded by the people to be as gods and they took wives which they had children with.

Some myths also make Hercules out to be of giant proportions. And Gilgamesh was definitely a giant. Who knows what would result when you mixed human and angel?
 
Axe Elf

Axe Elf

Prophet
74x12 said:
Gilgamesh was said to be 2/3rds god and 1/3 human. Hercules was 1/2 god and 1/2 human.
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I'm not going to bother chasing down most of your nonsense (since it's largely speculative, however unreasonable it may also be, and thus just a matter of opinion), but I do want you to consider how any offspring of two sexes could ever be 1/3 or 2/3 anything. The denominator always has to be an exponent of two--2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Axe Elf said:
I'm not going to bother chasing down most of your nonsense (since it's largely speculative, however unreasonable it may also be, and thus just a matter of opinion),
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Yes I use reasonable speculation. But the scriptures as a whole I believe paint this picture. In fact I don't believe it's an accident that this story is in Genesis 6. God has it in there for a reason. Since then they have done it again and continue to do so.
Axe Elf said:
but I do want you to consider how any offspring of two sexes could ever be 1/3 or 2/3 anything. The denominator always has to be an exponent of two--2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.
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Admittedly it's a strange fraction to come up with. I'm not here to defend Gilgamesh's claim to divine origins. Just bringing up examples of possible mythological characters inspired by the "men of old; men of renown" the Bible speaks of.
 
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