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Purpose of life?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I think the answer is to know and love God.
I know God but I do not love Him very much. :oops:

One could say that is because I do not love myself very much but I consider that psychobabble. I think there is a lot more to it than that simple explanation. :rolleyes:

If people can get beyond their scriptures, they eventually have to ask themselves why a loving God would even create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering. It is difficult to love a God like that, notwithstanding all the religious apologetics that attempt to tell you why suffering is good for you. :rolleyes:
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I know God but I do not love Him very much. :oops:

One could say that is because I do not love myself very much but I consider that psychobabble. I think there is a lot more to it than that simple explanation. :rolleyes:

If people can get beyond their scriptures, they eventually have to ask themselves why a loving God would even create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering. It is difficult to love a God like that, notwithstanding all the religious apologetics that attempt to tell you why suffering is good for you. :rolleyes:

The greatest people are those that suffer most. ;) Must be a wisdom in it!

Helps us to detach from this world. That is a good thing to.

Regards Tony
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
As a believer I do not think that God defines our purpose in life, except very generally.

Same, there is one's personal ambitions, natural inclinations and sense of fulfillment in their life (which I'd call the "purpose" in the personal sense); then there is the divine will (of God)
The first of them depends on the person, and the second is beyond the person (and ultimately influences it anyway)

We are ultimately responsible for ourselves (however we want to interpret that), not God. Our "purpose in life" in the usual sense, is nobody's responsibility but ourselves.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The greatest people are those that suffer most. ;) Must be a wisdom in it!

Helps us to detach from this world. That is a good thing to.

Regards Tony
Logically speaking, that does not mean that everyone who suffers is great or that suffering helps everyone detach from this world. This is what I consider a platitude, a religious apologetic.

Not everyone has the same ability to endure. Some people fall down under the weight of suffering, good people.

As @ IndigoChild5559 said a couple of weeks ago:

"I do not think any religion or denomination offers a sufficient answer to the problem of why good people suffer."

"I think, personally, the reason we are not told why there is suffering, is that basically it is too far out of our ability to understand."


Yet Baha'is seem to think they know things that other religions do not know... :rolleyes:
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yet Baha'is seem to think they know things that other religions do not know... :rolleyes:

If we pursue this subject we find there is a lot about this subject in the Baha'i writings. Thus there is more on this subject that has been disclosed than in other scriptures.

Baha'u'llah suffered for over 40 years and has said why he submitted to that path;

"The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!" Love draws us towards the wisdom in suffering, we want to be moulded into better people.

A hidden word tells us why we are tested by suffering;

"O SON OF BEING! Busy not thyself with this world, for with fire We test the gold, and with gold We test Our servants."

We pray for suffering to be part of our journey, without suffering it is hard to grow spiritually;

‘Does the soul progress more through sorrow or through the joy in this world?’ ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.—‘The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness. Man is, so to speak, unripe: the heat of the fire of suffering will mature him. Look back to the times past and you will find that the greatest men have suffered most.’ (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 178)

But suffering, although an inescapable reality, can nevertheless be utilized as a means for the attainment of happiness. This is the interpretation given to it by all the prophets and saints who, in the midst of severe tests and trials, felt happy and joyous and experienced what is best and holiest in life. (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 280)

Personally the last decade has given me a path where the wisdom of this has become more clear. This passage full of wisdom;

"However afflictive your sufferings may be, stay ye undisturbed, and with perfect confidence in the abounding grace of God, brave ye the tempest of tribulations and fiery ordeals." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 73)

True happiness is found by suffering;

‘Then it is impossible to attain happiness without suffering?’ ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.—‘To attain eternal happiness one must suffer. He who has reached the state of self-sacrifice has true joy. Temporal joy will vanish.’ (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 178)

Suffering

Susan has a good article on this subject;

Suffering Through Tests - Susan Gammage, Baha'i-Inspired Solutions

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Logically speaking, that does not mean that everyone who suffers is great or that suffering helps everyone detach from this world. This is what I consider a platitude, a religious apologetic.

Not everyone has the same ability to endure. Some people fall down under the weight of suffering, good people.

No soul is tested beyond its capacity. Thus the wisdom of suffering may not unfold in this world for all people, but rest assured it will be made clear when we pass beyond this world of many veils.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If we pursue this subject we find there is a lot about this subject in the Baha'i writings. Thus there is more on this subject that has been disclosed than in other scriptures.

Baha'u'llah suffered for over 40 years and has said why he submitted to that path;

"The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!" Love draws us towards the wisdom in suffering, we want to be moulded into better people.

A hidden word tells us why we are tested by suffering;

"O SON OF BEING! Busy not thyself with this world, for with fire We test the gold, and with gold We test Our servants."

We pray for suffering to be part of our journey, without suffering it is hard to grow spiritually;

‘Does the soul progress more through sorrow or through the joy in this world?’ ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.—‘The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be. Just as the plough furrows the earth deeply, purifying it of weeds and thistles, so suffering and tribulation free man from the petty affairs of this worldly life until he arrives at a state of complete detachment. His attitude in this world will be that of divine happiness. Man is, so to speak, unripe: the heat of the fire of suffering will mature him. Look back to the times past and you will find that the greatest men have suffered most.’ (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 178)

But suffering, although an inescapable reality, can nevertheless be utilized as a means for the attainment of happiness. This is the interpretation given to it by all the prophets and saints who, in the midst of severe tests and trials, felt happy and joyous and experienced what is best and holiest in life. (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 280)

Personally the last decade has given me a path where the wisdom of this has become more clear. This passage full of wisdom;

"However afflictive your sufferings may be, stay ye undisturbed, and with perfect confidence in the abounding grace of God, brave ye the tempest of tribulations and fiery ordeals." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 73)

True happiness is found by suffering;

‘Then it is impossible to attain happiness without suffering?’ ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.—‘To attain eternal happiness one must suffer. He who has reached the state of self-sacrifice has true joy. Temporal joy will vanish.’ (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 178)

Suffering

Susan has a good article on this subject;

Suffering Through Tests - Susan Gammage, Baha'i-Inspired Solutions

Regards Tony
I am really sorry I have to say this Tony, but the Baha'i Faith is the religion that has more platitudes and apologetics than any other religion.

In general some of what the Writings say about suffering might be true for some people some of the time but it is not true for all people all of the time, so the next thing I predict you will say is that it is their own fault that they cannot endure the suffering God throws at them because God only tests people according to their capacity. If that was actually true, then there would be no suicides, so you just lost that argument..

Then we have the grossly unequal distribution of suffering... I am not going to say I have suffered more than anyone else because I am sure that is not true, but certainly most people have not suffered as much as I have.

I am not complaining, but logically speaking there is no way you can say that God is All-Loving when God allows so much suffering in the world... You can say it, but I will never believe it, nor will a lot of other people believe it just because it is written in a book that claims to be from God. Sorry, but that is not good enough, because what I see in the world does not align with what is written in the books. In short, if it does not pass the logic test, I am not going to believe it on faith alone.

My husband is also a Bahai, has been fro over 53 years, and we have this conversation often. He tries to be God's lawyer, but God does not need a lawyer, He just needs to get off His duff and help people in need. The fact that God does not do that is the evidence that God does not care if they suffer. I am not talking about ordinary suffering, minor inconveniences, I am talking about people who lose an entire family in a murder or a fire. Where was your Loving God then?

Let me make this perfectly clear. It does not matter to me one iota that there is an afterlife where people get recompense. There is no way to even know anything about the afterlife, another cheap trick God played on us. We are just supposed to believe the afterlife will be joy and gladness because that is written in a book. But given all the other promises from God that have not come true, the afterlife could well be just more suffering.

Let me make this perfectly clear. I have nothing but love and reverence for Baha'ullah and I do hold Him accountable for anything. Baha'u'llah was just like a mailman who brought the mail but God is the one who built and runs the post office. It is unfair to blame Baha'u'llah for what God has done, or not done. He was just the Messenger.

My husband often says I should just drop out of the Baha'i Faith because "I don't really believe it." But I do believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, so that is why I have not dropped out, yet. Baha'u'llah had good intentions when He wrote His Will and Testament but whatever happened after Baha'u'llah died was outside of His control, so I do not necessarily have to believe what Abdu'l-Baha or Shoghi Effendi or the UHJ wrote, not unless those Writings are congruent with what Baha'u'llah wrote. That is highly debatable as Abdu'l-Baha took a lot of literary license.

In short, only Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God. I am willing to look at what He wrote, but just as with the Bible, those Writings can mean different things to different people, and they will...

You said: " We pray for suffering to be part of our journey, without suffering it is hard to grow spiritually;"

How many Baha'is do you think pray for suffering? Some of us don't have to. We are truly blessed. :rolleyes: The only thing is that we have been beaten down so bad that we can barely function at work and cannot do anything for the Faith or other people except online.

But suffering, although an inescapable reality, can nevertheless be utilized as a means for the attainment of happiness. This is the interpretation given to it by all the prophets and saints who, in the midst of severe tests and trials, felt happy and joyous and experienced what is best and holiest in life. (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 280)

The key words in that quote are "can be utilized." It may or may not be able to be utilized so I consider this a platitude. What has worked for some people does not work for all people. All quotes like this accomplish is putting a guilt trip on people who do not measure up, making them feel even worse. However, that is unavoidable because quotes like this were written for ordinary people, not for those afflicted with depression and anxiety. Those people can go to hell in a bread basket as far as God is concerned. They will get recompense in the afterlife. :rolleyes:

"However afflictive your sufferings may be, stay ye undisturbed, and with perfect confidence in the abounding grace of God, brave ye the tempest of tribulations and fiery ordeals." (‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 73)
Give me one good reason why we should have confidence in the abounding grace of God, other than what is written in books telling us about God. In other words, where is the evidence?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
No soul is tested beyond its capacity.
That is a faith-based statement with no evidence to back it up. Can you prove it?
If no soul is tested beyond its capacity why do so many people commit suicide?
Thus the wisdom of suffering may not unfold in this world for all people, but rest assured it will be made clear when we pass beyond this world of many veils.
That is a faith-based statement with no evidence to back it up. Can you prove it?
I believe that is true, but only because I am a Baha'i and I have faith.

However, it does not do anyone any good to know that even if it is true, because they still have to suffer through this world and some people have untold suffering.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
According to my religion, the purpose of life is to know and love God. We know God by reading what God revealed about Himself through Messengers. We love God by serving God through service to humanity.
By fulfilling our purpose in this life we prepare ourselves for the afterlife in the spiritual world.

In contrast, I find by fulfilling our purpose in life we can prepare ourselves to be delivered alive when the coming Super Storm comes upon humanity. Many have a cavalier attitude about such a 'stormy tribulation' happening.
World condition are ' red hot ' ( global warming / out-of-control societies / nations Not knowing the way out ) red-hot alert warnings that such a tribulation is coming upon humanity. Coming like a run-away freight train that is on fire.
Is the news really news any more, or being riddled with some sort of propaganda ______.
ALL these polluted conditions are Not sustainable because mankind is up against hitting the wall.
Political kings/rulers often put rank and privilege above the people.
Two opposing parties often go back and forth like windshield wipers more concerned about their own interests.
So, this planet needs a new sign hung on it: " Under New Management ".
This coming Super Storm is Not about any afterlife, but the world of living humanity right here on planet Earth.
In Scripture I find that coming New Management' is going to be brought about, Not by humanity, but by divine involvement into humanity's affairs delivering upright people through the coming great tribulation stormy conditions.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In contrast, I find by fulfilling our purpose in life we can prepare ourselves to be delivered alive when the coming Super Storm comes upon humanity. Many have a cavalier attitude about such a 'stormy tribulation' happening.
World condition are ' red hot ' ( global warming / out-of-control societies / nations Not knowing the way out ) red-hot alert warnings that such a tribulation is coming upon humanity. Coming like a run-away freight train that is on fire.
Is the news really news any more, or being riddled with some sort of propaganda ______.
ALL these polluted conditions are Not sustainable because mankind is up against hitting the wall.
Political kings/rulers often put rank and privilege above the people.
Two opposing parties often go back and forth like windshield wipers more concerned about their own interests.
So, this planet needs a new sign hung on it: " Under New Management ".
This coming Super Storm is Not about any afterlife, but the world of living humanity right here on planet Earth.
In Scripture I find that coming New Management' is going to be brought about, Not by humanity, but by divine involvement into humanity's affairs delivering upright people through the coming great tribulation stormy conditions.
Thanks for sharing. I agree with most everything you said. :)
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If people can get beyond their scriptures, they eventually have to ask themselves why a loving God would even create a world in which He knew there would be so much suffering. It is difficult to love a God like that, notwithstanding all the religious apologetics that attempt to tell you why suffering is good for you. :rolleyes:

I find suffering was Not offered to Adam, so suffering is Not God's purpose. Adam was offered everlasting life.
Adam was told you break the Law of the Land ( do Not eat from God's tree ) or you will die.
Satan is the one who threw a monkey wrench into Gods' purpose for a paradisical Earth as Eden was a Sample.
Satan is the one who challenges ALL of us according to Job 2:4-5. Touch our 'flesh'(loose our physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.
So, a loving God created a beautiful paradisical world, but it was Satan and Adam who brought suffering to us.
Since we can Not undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us is why we need some who can undo the damage for us.
In Scripture, God provided His Son to come and undo all the damage for us, and have Earth become a beautiful garden as Eden was.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come an bring ' healing ' ( undo the suffering ) so there will be 'healing for earth's nations' as per Revelation 22:2.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No soul is tested beyond its capacity. Thus the wisdom of suffering may not unfold in this world for all people, but rest assured it will be made clear when we pass beyond this world of many veils.
Regards Tony

To me, 'pass beyond this world of many veils ' means passing alive through the coming great tribulation into a righteous new society right here on Earth. That is the future hope that Jeremiah believed in at Jeremiah 29:11.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I find suffering was Not offered to Adam, so suffering is Not God's purpose. Adam was offered everlasting life.
Adam was told you break the Law of the Land ( do Not eat from God's tree ) or you will die.
Satan is the one who threw a monkey wrench into Gods' purpose for a paradisical Earth as Eden was a Sample.
Satan is the one who challenges ALL of us according to Job 2:4-5. Touch our 'flesh'(loose our physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions. Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.
So, a loving God created a beautiful paradisical world, but it was Satan and Adam who brought suffering to us.
Since we can Not undo the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us is why we need some who can undo the damage for us.
In Scripture, God provided His Son to come and undo all the damage for us, and have Earth become a beautiful garden as Eden was.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come an bring ' healing ' ( undo the suffering ) so there will be 'healing for earth's nations' as per Revelation 22:2.
I do not believe in the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve and the fall of man, so I do not believe in original sin.

I believe than humans cause most of their own suffering because we have free will to do either good or evil and many choose evil. Then some of those people who choose to do evil hurt good people.

I do not believe in a being called Satan. I believe that Satan symbolizes the lower selfish nature of man, which Baha'is call the satanic self.

I believe that God sent His Son to reveal God and show us how to lead a spiritual life, thereby conferring everlasting life upon us. In short, this is how I believe Jesus saved humanity:

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I do not believe in the literal interpretation of Adam and Eve and the fall of man, so I do not believe in original sin.
I believe than humans cause most of their own suffering because we have free will to do either good or evil and many choose evil. Then some of those people who choose to do evil hurt good people.
I do not believe in a being called Satan. I believe that Satan symbolizes the lower selfish nature of man, which Baha'is call the satanic self.
I believe that God sent His Son to reveal God and show us how to lead a spiritual life, thereby conferring everlasting life upon us. In short, this is how I believe Jesus saved humanity:

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125

Thank you for your reply. Yes, humans cause most of their own suffering but also because of human imperfection.
As far as suffering from sickness, humans do cause some of it by spreading infectious diseases, but humans did Not originate sickness. I like that Isaiah 33:24 wrote that the time is coming when No one will say, "I am sick..."

I find the lower selfish nature of man is described by the selfish behavior as listed at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
That to me is why see selfish people going from bad to worse. That is a free-choice selfishness.

Since most people want peace then it seems odd to me that there is Not more Peace on Earth.
That alone tells me there is a behind-the-scenes invisible influence on mankind aka Satan.

To me the ' world of liberty ' is the coming ' righteous new world ' under Christ for a thousand years.
Freed from the vices of human imperfection and gaining healthy human physical perfection as Adam originally had.
I like how Revelation 22:2 lets us know that mankind living on Earth will see the return of the Genesis "Tree of Life" right here on Earth. The purpose of the "Tree of Life" returning is for the ' healing of earth's nations '.
That is how it will be possible for everyone on Earth to say, " I am Not sick...."

I am wondering what you might think about God's promise to father Abraham (Genesis 12:3;Genesis 18:18; 22:18)
That ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Same, there is one's personal ambitions, natural inclinations and sense of fulfillment in their life (which I'd call the "purpose" in the personal sense); then there is the divine will (of God)
The first of them depends on the person, and the second is beyond the person (and ultimately influences it anyway)
We are ultimately responsible for ourselves (however we want to interpret that), not God. Our "purpose in life" in the usual sense, is nobody's responsibility but ourselves.

"...is nobody's responsibility but ourselves." means to me that we are all free to act responsibility toward God.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
"...is nobody's responsibility but ourselves." means to me that we are all free to act responsibility toward God.

Yep, and that our lives on earth are a product of human/animal interaction. To blame our failings or humans wronging other humans on God is ridiculous. We are individuals and the nature of being an individual is one of choice.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That is a faith-based statement with no evidence to back it up. Can you prove it?
If no soul is tested beyond its capacity why do so many people commit suicide?

That is a faith-based statement with no evidence to back it up. Can you prove it?
I believe that is true, but only because I am a Baha'i and I have faith.

However, it does not do anyone any good to know that even if it is true, because they still have to suffer through this world and some people have untold suffering.

God does not change their choices. It depends on our frame of mind. Everything is from God and is up to us to know and Love God. Given this, how can anything that happens not have a wisdom for us to move closer to that goal. We are all under the mercy of God. If tests and trials leave us without anything in this life, it all has a reason and though hard to face, we can be thankful the wisdom will be known.

"...He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful. Bahza'u'llah - Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 104-107

Regards Tony
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
The purpose of life is simply to breed and survive long enough for your offspring to repeat the process and continue the propagation of species. Simple really
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
In your view/opinion, What is life all about spiritually?

We are the Universe's way of experiencing itself. As life evolves, how life experiences the Universe gets fully realized in ways we can't possibly imagined. This is because where we exist in the evolution of life defines a particular filter for how we experience the Universe.

To put it another way, we exist so our omnipotent God can realize His omnipotence by experiencing the thrill of having limitations by sharing in our experiences of our life's joys and frustrations.
 
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