If you believe

TransmutingSoul · Nov 28, 2018

Nakosis said:
If I had a better beard, looking at your profile pic, I could almost believe I was looking in a mirror.

I imagine going to a concrete place of worship is very comforting.

However I can't escape the feeling that waiting a lifetime for conformation of one's faith is a bit evil.

Faith confirmed is wonderful. Waiting a lifetime torturous. I hope you find fulment but dang, why does God prolong it so?

Great I have a twin

Consider Baha'u'llah was persecuted, exiled and imprisoned for over 40 years.

He offered us this to consider;

"The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!"

Knowing that suffering is part of life is a great burden lifted.

I wish you always well and happy.

Regards Tony

Unveiled Artist · Nov 28, 2018

Trackdayguy said:
Came to faith 30+ years ago, rejected evangelical fundalism 20 years ago.

If you believe that down through the ages that God has spoken through many people, then it would seem logical that one could embrace the teaching of Baha'u'llah.

No. On what grounds should that person accept bahaullah if bahai believe in diversity of thought and choice of all religious god or not?

Windwalker · Nov 28, 2018

Trackdayguy said:
Came to faith 30+ years ago, rejected evangelical fundalism 20 years ago.

If you believe that down through the ages that God has spoken through many people, then it would seem logical that one could embrace the teaching of Baha'u'llah.

And hundreds after him too.

Dawnofhope · Nov 28, 2018

Trackdayguy said:
Came to faith 30+ years ago, rejected evangelical fundalism 20 years ago.

If you believe that down through the ages that God has spoken through many people, then it would seem logical that one could embrace the teaching of Baha'u'llah.

I too rejected Christian fundamentalism over 30 years ago. I spent 5 years searching for answers and following a Persian prophet called Baha'u'llah was unimaginable when I started. It makes more sense now than ever. As a genuinely universal religion that embraces both the Abrahamic (Moses, Christ, Muhammad) and Dharmic (Krishna and Buddha) lineages I've been unable to find a better way.

loverofhumanity · Nov 28, 2018

One of the main important reasons I’m very, very happy with what I believe is that we are taught to accept all people, nations, races and reject none. I can pray and meditate in any religions house of worship in any temple, church, pagoda or mosque or synagogue.

All the good words, the Holy Books are for me to learn from. No one is evil or condemned or from Satan or unsaved. All are born pure and we learn good or bad ways from our education and upbringing.

No religion, race, nation or people are superior to any other especially not my own. All are to be learned from and appreciated. As far as my beliefs are concerned every person has truth in them and every person of any religion or no religion is precious and should be treated with welcoming loving courtesy and kindness.

But none of us is perfect so we must forgive and look at each other’s good not faults because we all have them.

To be this way is to me to be in a very good place mentally and spiritually as I can have good relations with most if not all people as there is an emphasis on unconditional acceptance of all people instead of harshly judging others.

I think if we all just accept each other for whoever we are we can easily live in peace and harmony.

loverofhumanity · Nov 28, 2018

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
There is this life to continually work on that question. If we are sincere in that quest, then that is what is asked of us.

Test all things, hold fast to what is good.

Personally pilgrimage in 2014 to Haifa confirmed it for me. I go again next week.

I ask myself, if this Faith is wrong, what Faith can be right? The answer to me would be none. Thus Baha'u'llah has shown me they all come from the same source.

Regards Tony

Hi Tony. We wish you and you dear wife a safe trip and wonderful time.

shunyadragon · Nov 28, 2018

Rival said:
It's not exactly that simple, though. The messages have to logically follow.

The problem with logic is that it is most often the tool one uses to justify their own belief system. I came to the conclusion long ago that no faith is subject to logical justification. The Baha'i Faith is my stop along the road of the spiritual search, but not justifiable by logic. I consider strong agnostic humanism like found in Unitarian Universalism objectively a viable alternative, and I am close to much in the abstract spiritual nature of Buddhism accept the cultural adornments, and lack of relevance to the contemporary diverse world.

I determined early that pretty much all ancient religions, ie Judaism, Christianity and Islam, fail as stand alone beliefs, because of the cultural and tribal burdens that define their claims of exclusive beliefs they carry since they formed. They like all ancient religions only have relevance if considered in some greater theme of the relationship of humanity and existence to a 'Source' some call God(s).

Katzpur · Nov 28, 2018

Trackdayguy said:
Came to faith 30+ years ago, rejected evangelical fundalism 20 years ago.

If you believe that down through the ages that God has spoken through many people, then it would seem logical that one could embrace the teaching of Baha'u'llah.

It is entirely logical. It is also logical that one could embrace the teachings of Joseph Smith, who founded The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God has never stopped communicating to His children. Those who insist that He has are doing nothing but plugging their ears and telling Him to shut up.

loverofhumanity · Nov 28, 2018

Why does it come down to having to be one or another? We can believe in all religions there is a lot of truth in all of them that we can accept and that is not contradictory.

I’ve never felt it was either or but found it far easier to accept all without distinction.

The contradictions are only based on people’s interpretations but you can have an interpretation that is not contradictory and enables you to accept them all.

The question needs to be asked of us is why we choose always to accept the interpretations that keep us in conflict and prevent us from being united?

If we are really all about love and peace for all then interpreting all beliefs in a united way is more likely tye truth as truth doesn’t contradict itself.

Dawnofhope · Nov 28, 2018

Quintessence said:
How could polytheism be built on monotheism when polytheism historically predates monotheism? Regardless, fake "soft polytheism" might help rationalize things in your worldview, but don't mistake your reconciliation with the realities of true "hard polytheists" like myself. My gods are not a rainbow that came out of some single pure light. The Baha'i tendency to ignore and overwrite polytheistic narratives is one of the things that annoys me about them, sad to say.

God is an unknowable essence according to Baha'i Teachings. Few of us had had the kinds of truly mystic experiences that would enable us to witness first hand what truly lies beyond this mortal realm. Of those who make such a claim, who do we believe?

Almost all human cultures have their roots in early spiritual experiences with animism leading to polytheistic worldviews. Many of those in turn have a Supreme Being or beings. However polytheists insisting they are right is no more convincing than monotheists insisting they too are right.

Dawnofhope · Nov 28, 2018

Rival said:
It's not exactly that simple, though. The messages have to logically follow.

Logic, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

IndigoChild5559 · Nov 29, 2018

I'll stick to the original monotheism. I see no need to add on new teachings.

Rival · Nov 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
Logic, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Except it isn't. If one source gives two completely different messages, the source is not to be trusted. Logic, unlike beauty, is subject to laws.

Rival · Nov 29, 2018

shunyadragon said:
The problem with logic is that it is most often the tool one uses to justify their own belief system. I came to the conclusion long ago that no faith is subject to logical justification. The Baha'i Faith is my stop along the road of the spiritual search, but not justifiable by logic. I consider strong agnostic humanism like found in Unitarian Universalism objectively a viable alternative, and I am close to much in the abstract spiritual nature of Buddhism accept the cultural adornments, and lack of relevance to the contemporary diverse world.

I determined early that pretty much all ancient religions, ie Judaism, Christianity and Islam, fail as stand alone beliefs, because of the cultural and tribal burdens that define their claims of exclusive beliefs they carry since they formed. They like all ancient religions only have relevance if considered in some greater theme of the relationship of humanity and existence to a 'Source' some call God(s).

It does not matter to you if G-d said the Torah is for the Jews for all time and then reneges on that with Christianity, and then goes back on that by sending Muhammad, whose messages contradicts both prior faiths and so on?

Dawnofhope · Nov 29, 2018

Rival said:
Except it isn't. If one source gives two completely different messages, the source is not to be trusted.

The problem with that argument is you can get many different messages from the one source. Orthodox and reform, Catholic and Protestant, and Sunni and Shia alomg with all the other variants that have existed through the centuries.

Rival · Nov 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
The problem with that argument is you can get many different messages from the one source. Orthodox and reform, Catholic and Protestant, and Sunni and Shia alomg with all the other variants that have existed through the centuries.

Yes, a law is down to interpretation, but if a part of that law is 'This law is for you forever' and a later self-proclaimed prophet comes and says, 'God says do it like this now,' that is clearly illogical. Such as G-d saying he does not ask for human sacrifice, that the thought never entered His mind, yet Christians claim Jesus as a human sacrifice. These things are illogical. They do not follow.

Dawnofhope · Nov 29, 2018

Rival said:
Yes, a law is down to interpretation, but if a part of that law is 'This law is for you forever' and a later self-proclaimed prophet comes and says, 'God says do it like this now,' that is clearly illogical. Such as G-d saying he does not ask for human sacrifice, that the thought never entered His mind, yet Christians claim Jesus as a human sacrifice. These things are illogical. They do not follow.

As I understand it, G-d in essence never leaves us or abandons us. He guides us through His laws. If we are faithful He blesses us. He we turn on our heels against the Covenant of G-d He withdraws His blessing from us, even curses us (Deuteronomy 28). At some point the Covenant between G-d and the Jews reached a point of no return.

Jesus sacrificed Himself in the path of G-d as many before Him have and those ater Him did? Martyrdom is no new thing, especially amongst the Jewish prophets.

Rival · Nov 29, 2018

adrian009 said:
At some point the Covenant between G-d and the Jews reached a point of no return.

No it didn't. In the prophets and writings, G-d assures Israel that He will never abandon them.

1 Kings, 6:13
"And I will dwell among the children of Israel and will not forsake my people Israel.”

Isaiah, 54:8-10
“With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,” says the Lord, your Redeemer. “This is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. The mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, Who has mercy on you.

Jeremiah, 31:35-36
Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar – the Lord of hosts is His name: If this fixed order were ever to cease from My presence, says the Lord, then also the offspring of Israel would cease to be a nation before Me forever.

Thus says the Lord: If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will reject all the offspring of Israel because of all they have done.

G-d will not abandon His people Israel.

wizanda · Nov 29, 2018

Isaiah 54:7 “For a small moment I have forsaken you; but I will gather you with great mercies.

Rival said:
Isaiah, 54:8-10
“With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,” says the Lord, your Redeemer. “This is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. The mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, Who has mercy on you.

The verse before indicates Israel/Judah are under the Curse of Moses Deuteronomy 28-32...

They're still not free from the Curse until after the Fire (Deuteronomy 29:22-23) cleanses mankind (Isaiah 24:6, Isaiah 34:5, Zechariah 14:11).

Isaiah 43:28 Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel an insult.”

Just to be clear, those who do not accept the Curse stipulated, and "teach Peace" instead, are soon to be cut off from reality (Deuteronomy 29:19-20).

In my opinion.

TransmutingSoul · Nov 29, 2018

Rival said:
No it didn't. In the prophets and writings, G-d assures Israel that He will never abandon them.

1 Kings, 6:13
"And I will dwell among the children of Israel and will not forsake my people Israel.”

Isaiah, 54:8-10
“With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,” says the Lord, your Redeemer. “This is like the waters of Noah to Me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth, so have I sworn that I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you. The mountains shall depart and the hills be removed, but My kindness shall not depart from you, nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,” says the Lord, Who has mercy on you.

Jeremiah, 31:35-36
Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar – the Lord of hosts is His name: If this fixed order were ever to cease from My presence, says the Lord, then also the offspring of Israel would cease to be a nation before Me forever.

Thus says the Lord: If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will reject all the offspring of Israel because of all they have done.

G-d will not abandon His people Israel.

I see God fulfilled the promise and did return the Jews to the Holy Land.

In Jeremiah 31 verse 31, it talks of a new covernant and when we get to verse 35 the 'Lord of Hosts' is Baha'u'llah.

I will be there end of next week.

Regards Tony

If you believe

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