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Eternal spirit and soul

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?

I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?

I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....

From a Baha'i perspective the soul is an entity beyond the comprehension of men.

Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 158-163

No wonder you're tired of thinking about it...:D
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
From a Baha'i perspective the soul is an entity beyond the comprehension of men.

Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 158-163

No wonder you're tired of thinking about it...:D

Probably. Who knows. (No likes or hearts or anything) just thinking of my aunt. She wasnt a believer either. Least not the outward appearance of such. Her soul and spirit are with me (as defined above). I know she isnt here. Dead.

But many people believe in the eternal nature of the soul. What is their definition,who knows. But wouldnt it be logical if the soul lives for eternity, it would exist before and after ones death?

By the way. The Buddha doesnt teach about learning the nature of the soul since he believed there isnt one. In his view, philosophizing over the nature of life (in this case rebirth) is irrelevant.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel.

Soul and god are inseparable?

Mind you, I dont know what god is.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?
Your full attention. :)

I interpret the
I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)
I'd change that list, ever so slightly,
Soul: Personality Energy Essence
Spirit: Not applicable or a feature of the above
Mind: Thoughts,emotions and mental work-spaces
Consciousness: awareness (simple); being

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.
And so you shall experience for a time... in accordance to your expectations.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....
The simple answer is, nothing. It is as aware, right now, as it will be after your body croaks. The trick is becoming aware of it. Deep meditation might bring the individual closer to understanding the nature of this sense of inner being via direct experience, though that is a long shot, it's a better shot than most.

In my warped view, there is a form of reincarnation that exists, though it is unlike virtually anything one can peruse in esoteric tombs. The neat thing about it is that, especially if you are still focused in physical reality, it doesn't matter if one believes in this larger framework or not. The idea is that the individual is still physical and likely already has their hands full and need not consider other lives. (One is usually enough to keep ones attention.) :)
 

Axe Elf

Prophet
Spirit is immortal, but not personal. It is merely the breath of life, the force that animates matter and makes us alive. It is given by God and returns to God upon our death.

Soul is who we are, what makes us "us"--our minds or personalities. It is not immortal; it needs to be "saved" or it will be destroyed upon death.

Nothing about either one of them exists after death that did not exist before.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Probably. Who knows. (No likes or hearts or anything) just thinking of my aunt. She wasnt a believer either. Least not the outward appearance of such. Her soul and spirit are with me (as defined above). I know she isnt here. Dead.

But many people believe in the eternal nature of the soul. What is their definition,who knows. But wouldnt it be logical if the soul lives for eternity, it would exist before and after ones death?

By the way. The Buddha doesnt teach about learning the nature of the soul since he believed there isnt one. In his view, philosophizing over the nature of life (in this case rebirth) is irrelevant.

The most common belief amongst the Abrahamic faiths I'm most familiar with is, the soul begins at conception. I don't see why it would be more logical for a soul to be present before conception since that is the beginning of our existence.

Its hard to pinpoint what Buddha taught about God and the soul. I know many people who live in countries who have practiced Buddhism for centuries are theist, yet in the West atheism is emphasised much more.

Some questions are simply too hard to fathom. Perhaps a more straight forward path is to study the teachings of someone like Buddha and see what unfolds.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Well. :( I dont even know how to address this.

Theravadas and Mahayanas have totally different concepts and emphasis on deities (polytheism), devas, buddha nature, and nature of what abrahamics call a soul. It highly depends. Probably 80% of "authentic buddhist" are in monastaries and temples usually owned by an monastic. The rest of us layman (american) dont have much access to it. Of course, depending on transportation and denero. The US is huge.

That, and Westernism or mentioning anything westernized is belittling the nature of authentic beliefs and religions held in the isolated areas to which buddhism is practiced highly different than layman without access to being with monastics and people of that nature.

The most common belief amongst the Abrahamic faiths I'm most familiar with is, the soul begins at conception. I don't see why it would be more logical for a soul to be present before conception since that is the beginning of our existence.

Its hard to pinpoint what Buddha taught about God and the soul. I know many people who live in countries who have practiced Buddhism for centuries are theist, yet in the West atheism is emphasised much more.

Some questions are simply too hard to fathom. Perhaps a more straight forward path is to study the teachings of someone like Buddha and see what unfolds.

Id say that kinda supports my point of soul being personality. We develop our personality etc at conception not before. But they also believe the soul is eternal. So, since it is eternal, why would it start at conception?

:( He didnt teach about god. (He taught about gods ;) ) In tibetan Buddhism, deities and bodhisattvas are used to connect with The Buddhas enlighennment. It isnt atheistic (theravadans in the west dont disbelieve in deities, its just not important and emphasised in their views as it is in mahayana.)
But, yeah. On the other site I go to, more academic focused not regular RF type site, some ask about the soul and it was tossed out like a dirty rag. But if you want to know more about Atman from a Buddhist view, they can give insight. Id give you the site, if you want?

It is strictly theravadan and owned by monastics (who, interestingly enough, a few talk to us about the sutta history etc. It goes over my head given the pronounciation and all of that) Also, its not like RF where you have multiple view points. You can learn a lot but from a Bahai point of view, in my opinion, to discuss it as Truth would be disrespectful.

I dont know if there are people here that believe an eternal soul is only considered eternal after conception. That sounds like an oxymoron.
 
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?

I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?

I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....

Hi,I think it's good to think. You get tired because you don't get answers.
The Bible doesn't teach about afterlife
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that didnot exist before?

I interpret the

Soul: Personality
Spirit: Energy (of life)
Mind: Thoughts and emotions
Consciousness: awareness (simple)

I personally believe in no afterlife (nor before life). Once we die, thats it. Nothing.

If our spirit and soul are eternal, what about the soul and spirit that exists after death that did not exist before?

Sometimes I just get tired of thinking up....

In my view, there is no soul or spirit that did not exist before death. I was here before I was born into this body and mind, and I will be here after death.
  • Gross body: the ego self - originates upon birth of the temporal body and ends at the death of the body and mind
  • Subtle body: the energy that animates the gross body; the driver or actor, so to speak - was here before birth of the temporal body and survives temporal death
  • Causal body: the seed of the subtle and gross body which stores wisdom derived from experience - was here before birth of the temporal body and survives temporal death
Finally, there is the Atman, which is the witness, the observer of the three bodies, which is the the real and true Self, and the same as Brahman, the Absolute.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi,I think it's good to think. You get tired because you don't get answers.
The Bible doesn't teach about afterlife

Shrugs. My beliefs are elsewhere. I didn't know the bible doesnt teach the afterlife. Do tell.

Do you think its logical, though, to say the soul lives forever but doesnt exist before birth?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In my view, there is no soul or spirit that did not exist before death. I was here before I was born into this body and mind, and I will be here after death.
  • Gross body: the ego self - originates upon birth of the temporal body and ends at the death of the body and mind
  • Subtle body: the energy that animates the gross body; the driver or actor, so to speak - was here before birth of the temporal body and survives temporal death
  • Causal body: the seed of the subtle and gross body which stores wisdom derived from experience - was here before birth of the temporal body and survives temporal death
Finally, there is the Atman, which is the witness, the observer of the three bodies, which is the the real and true Self, and the same as Brahman, the Absolute.

That went over my head. I personally dont see the eternal nature of a soul nor spirit. I believe we just die. There are many who believe the soul lives forever. Yet these many dont believe the soul lives before death.

Does the manys views make sense to you?
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
We spend way too much time wondering about death,
and too little time wondering about life.
Death will get here, give a it a little time, but it is coming,
sooner than you wish, `God` has little to do with it.
But, go on and worry your silly butts off, life is edging on,
you all are missing the most important part.
Butterflies won't live very long, enjoy them when you can,
you won't live very long, enjoy life when you can.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
That went over my head. I personally dont see the eternal nature of a soul nor spirit. I believe we just die. There are many who believe the soul lives forever. Yet these many dont believe the soul lives before death.

Does the manys views make sense to you?

No. The concept that a soul or immortal essence begins at death makes no sense to me.

Who are these ‘many’ that believe this?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No. The concept that a soul or immortal essence begins at death makes no sense to me.

Who are these ‘many’ that believe this?

Im not sure of Santeria believe in life before death; but, they do believe in a concept of an afterlife. Buddhism has rebirth but there is no concept of a soul. Consciousness is one string; so, thats interesting to think about compared to a soul coming from birth. JW dont believe there is a soul or spirit of someone. So, that makes a bit more sense in regards to christianity. Im not familar with other religions.

But, it does seem contradictory regardless whose belief is whose. Christianity is so varied that to say Many is just christians would be generalizing.

Many-is just another word for the majority (of religion) or more than a few. Its used as a placeholder since the question isnt who or what but why and how.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Why do we die? Death is an inevitable consequence of the laws of thermodynamics: physical systems just wear out. In theory one could reverse the process, but the technology would be unbelievably complex.

Now what reason have we to believe that the laws of thermodynamics apply to non-physical entities? None. There are no grounds to believe that the soul (mind, spirit, whatever) will not just keep going.

Can it keep going without the body? Evidence for the mind (soul, whatever) operating independently includes (1) out-of-the-body experiences, (2) authenticated communications from the dead, and (3) manifestations of gods. Anyone who wants to explore the matter might like to read Professor Carl Becker's Paranormal experience and survival of death (SUNY, 1993).

Most non-Western societies believe in multiple souls. At the minimum, they accept an animating principle (what the anthropologists call the body soul) which does not survive and a soul (anthropologically the free soul) which does. There doesn't seem to be a decent general discussion of this in English, but Professor Jan Bremmer's The early Greek concept of the soul (Princeton UP, 1983) is useful.
 
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