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Receiving Death Threads

cardero

Citizen Mod
Lately I have been engaging in many death threads. I have posted on such varied topics as abortion, justifying war, vegetarians right not to promote animal slaughter. There has been much discussion about what constitutes murder and what doesn’t. It seems that everyone has their own opinions and their own degrees of morals concerning death. Now there is nothing wrong or right in proposing opinions and expressing how you feel about death but the one thing that I have observed is that sometimes these opinions bleed over into the realm of judgment. For example one person may feel quite persistent about stating how immoral it is to destroy a human fetus but is very supportive about soldiers marching off to war. Another person may express their distaste about the violent murders that happen in their country while eating a steak dinner as they type their response on their computer.

Are there degrees of death or is death just death? Are some people hypocritical in their views and judgments of death? Have we forgotten that death is a TRUTH of life on this planet? What is the acceptable life rate of an entity? Why do we sob uncontrollably or feel remorse at funerals but not bat an eyelash over the cat we just ran over with our car? With our respected religious beliefs and our views of the afterlife why is death described as a plague to mankind? Does everyone wish to reach a very old age and die peacefully in their own beds or are we much more realistic in how we will pass from this existence?
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
i wish i could afford steak.i've never run over a cat.i don't think death is a plague.
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
carrdero said:
Lately I have been engaging in many death threads. I have posted on such varied topics as abortion, justifying war, vegetarians right not to promote animal slaughter. There has been much discussion about what constitutes murder and what doesn’t. It seems that everyone has their own opinions and their own degrees of morals concerning death. Now there is nothing wrong or right in proposing opinions and expressing how you feel about death but the one thing that I have observed is that sometimes these opinions bleed over into the realm of judgment. For example one person may feel quite persistent about stating how immoral it is to destroy a human fetus but is very supportive about soldiers marching off to war. Another person may express their distaste about the violent murders that happen in their country while eating a steak dinner as they type their response on their computer.

Are there degrees of death or is death just death? Are some people hypocritical in their views and judgments of death? Have we forgotten that death is a TRUTH of life on this planet? What is the acceptable life rate of an entity? Why do we sob uncontrollably or feel remorse at funerals but not bat an eyelash over the cat we just ran over with our car? With our respected religious beliefs and our views of the afterlife why is death described as a plague to mankind? Does everyone wish to reach a very old age and die peacefully in their own beds or are we much more realistic in how we will pass from this existence?
I think I have been pretty consistent in my views against killing. I don't believe in abortion, I don't eat meat, I don't believe in war. I agree with you completely, we should think about how we affect every living being on the planet. It is the single largest belief that motivates me. What I don't understand is that how there are so many of us on the planet that consider ourselves "good" people, yet somehow we promote killing. I am not perfect, but on a daily basis, I try to find things that I can do to avoid affecting other living beings negatively, and killing them is definitely a negative thing.
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
are plants not alive because they don't have faces of pain when you kill them?
 

HelpMe

·´sociopathic meanderer`·
you are not a bull or pig either, again, is the plant alive or not?
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Huajiro writes: I don't believe in abortion, I don't eat meat, I don't believe in war. I am not perfect, but on a daily basis, I try to find things that I can do to avoid affecting other living beings negatively, and killing them is definitely a negative thing.
But since death is inevitable should we as a society view it as negative? I mean if a human doesn’t die in the line of duty or survives an abortion how would we expect them to die and at what age? If a cow survives the slaughterhouse or an insect the bottom of our shoe what does fate entail for the remaining years of their lives? If we have strong faith in religious doctrines whether you believe in paradise in heaven or reincarnation or if you believe that we inherit the earth isn’t the result of death a source of hope. Aren’t these entities destined to a “better place”? Aren't these positive aspects?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I can not see death as negitive, it is as important as life. Life by its very nature feeds on the death of others, yes eaven the plants that feed on your corpse as you lie in the ground. All I can do is respect the sacrifice that other lives make so that I can continue to live and when my time comes hope that my death provides life for others. I do not believe in killing needlessly and feel equily bad about both the cat hit by the car and the human put in a box.

As for the difference between Killing and Murder, that is a cultural call. It is at its heart an "Us vs. Them" mentality. Killing is the death of someone outside your peer-group, it is justified by saying that their death isn't as meaningful because they aren't the same as you and your friends. Murder is the death of someone inside your peer-group. Murder is wrong because it violates the social constraints of the peer-group. If this disctintion were not made in society than such things as wars could not happin. By de-humanizing people outside our peer-goup we insulate ourselves from the moral guilt that we would normaly have. Thus deaths outside the peer-group are always talked about in a sterile way to further prevent moral guilt.
Thus when our military bombs an 'enemy' it is never called murder but something nice and vague like neutralizing. The same idea works for the deaths of innocent people who are outside our peer-group wich we call 'colateral damage'. However when the 'enemy' kills one of our peers we call it murder. Thus the deaths on 9/11 are not colateral damage from the distruction of the buildings, but the deaths of the civilains in the bombings of Bagdad are. Again this serves to protect our self-image as good and moral people and our enemy as something different from ourselves. Without this distinction a society can not find moral justification for killing.
The death penalty works in the same way by cutting the person on death row out of society and into the class of 'not one of us'.

but this is just what I think.

wa:do
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
carrdero said:
But since death is inevitable should we as a society view it as negative? I mean if a human doesn’t die in the line of duty or survives an abortion how would we expect them to die and at what age? If a cow survives the slaughterhouse or an insect the bottom of our shoe what does fate entail for the remaining years of their lives? If we have strong faith in religious doctrines whether you believe in paradise in heaven or reincarnation or if you believe that we inherit the earth isn’t the result of death a source of hope. Aren’t these entities destined to a “better place”? Aren't these positive aspects?
I am starting to believe that death may not change things so much. I put "Heaven is what you make it" in a thread and I am starting to live by it.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
I think death is both important and neccessary. Suffering gets my back up. Murder is another, although yes it is death, it is tragically unfair and causes suffering to others. My stance is usually, why hurt others if we can avoid it?
 

mahayana

Member
"Thou shall not kill" is interpreted differently by different people. Someone I met on another forum has been going to college to become a minister, on a ROTC scholarship. Ironic, eh?

But I combine pacifism, zen, existentialism, science, vegetarianism, farming...so may have a little inconsistency myself, hah!
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
carrdero said:
For example one person may feel quite persistent about stating how immoral it is to destroy a human fetus but is very supportive about soldiers marching off to war.
First off - great thread. I hope this generates a lot of responses.
I think that one of the most inconsistent combinations occurs when someone is Pro-Choice in the abortion debate, but opposes the death penalty. I can see virtually every other combination from a rational standpoint, but that particular combination escapes me. I can understand someone that is Pro-life, and yet supports the death penalty (the fetus has done nothing to bring about the abortion, but the person on Death Row has committed some crime to cause his fate).



carrdero said:
Have we forgotten that death is a TRUTH of life on this planet?
The only thing that any living thing is ever guaranteed is that someday, it will die. THAT is a universal, immutable truth.

TVOR
 

huajiro

Well-Known Member
mahayana said:
"Thou shall not kill" is interpreted differently by different people. Someone I met on another forum has been going to college to become a minister, on a ROTC scholarship. Ironic, eh?

But I combine pacifism, zen, existentialism, science, vegetarianism, farming...so may have a little inconsistency myself, hah!
Sometimes people just don't think of the inconsistencies. I myself will run across things on a daily basis I can change. Some vegetarians probably don't know that gelatin comes from the horns, hooves and bones of animals, or that the enzyme that is used to create cheese comes from a cow's stomach (not trying to get off subject, just an example).
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
Truthseekingsoul: I think death is both important and neccessary. Suffering gets my back up. Murder is another, although yes it is death, it is tragically unfair and causes suffering to others. My stance is usually, why hurt others if we can avoid it?
You brought out a very interesting point, truthseekingsoul. Some people destined for death are stricken with terminal DISeases and in some cases must suffer until they pass. The word tragedy also intrigues me. Is this an acceptable human condition/definition or does death ignore such labels. I mean we hear that word on the news a lot. Is death a tragedy? Should we judge or apply such adjectives to death? Should we have one accepted opinion of death or our own opinions? Is it fair to make these presumptions on someone’s death even though we do not K(NOW) what kind of live they lived or what kind of existence they are going to experience in the afterlife? I apologize for all the questions just something I have been pondering for the last few days.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
The Voice Of Reason writes: I think that one of the most inconsistent combinations occurs when someone is Pro-Choice in the abortion debate, but opposes the death penalty.
I had a debate with someone on another forum who used the same defense. I had to ask him where he thought murderers came from then I had to assure him that they did not come from aborted fetuses.

The Voice Of Reason writes: The only thing that any living thing is ever guaranteed is that someday, it will die. THAT is a universal, immutable truth.
TVOR
There was a news report in the area. A woman was interviewed about her daughter who was struck by a car and died. The word tragedy was used by the reporter but the mother went on to say that it shouldn't have happened that she was only 8 and that she was so young. I understand the mother's REALationship to her daughter and I have no problems with the grieving process but I couldn’t understand where she received the idea that her daughter was guaranteed a long life. Do we as society measure a good life on the amount of time that we exist here? A bee lives for a week, a dog 15 years, a horse 28 years what is an accurate measurement for life?
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
This quote by the comedian Denis Leary:

"We live in a country where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest. Yoko Ono is standing right next to him. Not one F**king bullet. Explain that to me!"

Now THAT is a tragedy.

TVOR
 

lousyskater

Member
i've always felt that death is inevitable and the only thing ever guarateed in life, so it shouldn't be feared.


carrdero said:
I understand the mother's REALationship to her daughter and I have no problems with the grieving process but I couldn’t understand where she received the idea that her daughter was guaranteed a long life.

exactly. when your time is up, it's up. there's no "it's unfair" or anything else like that. i'm not talking about fate though, i'm just saying that there is no way around death. when it comes, there's nothing you can do about it. you may be able to prolong life, but death will eventually come.
 

mahayana

Member
The real question is who we are. We don't ask to be born, don't know the hour of our death. How we affect others is more important than our material accumulations, the tombstones we build. The ideas that last past our demise are the small contributions we make to immortality; if there is judgement, it's about how much we love or make people consider truth and how they should live to make the world a better place.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
The problem is our extreme physical focus...

Luke 12:4 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.

We have assumed that physical death was introduced in the garden of Eden. The Scriptures aren't very clear on this. I would suggest that the death introduced that day was a Spiritual Death.

I believe that niether animals nor plants have a soul. They are destined to physically die one day, whether it is for food or for waste.

War is wrong. We are killing those who are already spiritually dead, but who have a chance for a new life. Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

Abortion is wrong. While they have not sinned and so have not died spiritually, there is SO much that they can bring into this world. I have no scriptures, but "Thou shall not kill" easily comes to mind.

Our physical life is but a vapor... live for what is eternal.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
mahayana said:
The real question is who we are. We don't ask to be born, don't know the hour of our death. How we affect others is more important than our material accumulations, the tombstones we build. The ideas that last past our demise are the small contributions we make to immortality; if there is judgement, it's about how much we love or make people consider truth and how they should live to make the world a better place.
AMEN! Of all the posts that I have read on this site, this one probably captures my view on life the best. Excellent post, great thought, and very well presented.
I HAD to frubal this post!

TVOR
 
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