Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Does Exodus specifically say that the mountain was black? Please quote it. Why did it turn black? You are not answering the question fully.
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Jesus Resurrection
- Thread starter Prometheus85
- Start date
Jollybear
Hey
The story in the bible does not say one way or the other if the top of the mountain became blackened.
But, it does say this in exodus 19:18
"Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently."
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
And truly dead people didn't come back in the bible either. They almost always had a vague cause of death if any at all and were all conveniently entombed or left there, meaning they had air. These people aren't checking for pulses or brain activity. They cannot be trusted to define death.
We were putting bells near graves until relatively recently. You can have lots of resurrections when you can't figure out if someone's dead or not.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So at the most it would have been smudged on the outside of the rock. A deposit that would have eroded away rather quickly. It would cause the observed formation.
Jollybear
Hey
Well, theres a few more questions in need of.
How hot was the fire on mount sinai? IF it was hot enough, then it could be the cause of the rock on top being metamorphic.
Now, if it was not hot enough, then it would leave what you said, a "smudge" but, even a smudge can be a low grade metamorphosis on its surface. If it was a low grade metamorphosis, then it probably would not wither away in 5 thousand years. But, yes, a small chared smudge probably would.
In anycase, articles on the net say that the rock on top of jubel al luz IS black metamorphic rock. And per the testimony of some who broke the rocks open, it was light brown inside and black outside. So that looks like the rock metamorphed on its surface and not all the way through.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But the heat does not matter. If you understood the sources that I linked a long time ago you would not now be changing your argument. You are now grasping at straws rather than do the proper thing, which is to say that you were wrong. The Bible only says that there was smoke. That would only smudge the surface. This makes your entire argument with the mountain top a red herring. And no, as I pointed out earlier weathered surfaces are very often a different color than the inside of rocks. That is why geologists carry rock hammers and are always breaking rocks open. Weathered surfaces do not tell one as much as the interior. A dark surface would not be due to metamorphism.
Jollybear
Hey
It dont? Why not?
How did i change my argument? Im simply trying to go through this diagram with you in a practical way.
Correction. The bible says fire too.
exodus 19:18
"Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently."
A red herring means to change the subject. Im still talking of the subject of mount sinai. No red herring has been done.
Do you have proof withering of rock changes its color?
Because if you have a brown rock and wind or water is flowing over it, causing its surface particles to erode down, then, how will the stuff underneath not be brown too?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Excessive breaking up of a post is a bad sign. The material that the rock is made of determines its color, not the "heat".
Actually you aren't. When shown to be wrong the proper thing to do is to admit that you were wrong, not changing your argument so that you can convince yourself that it still works.
So just smoke, quoting out of context is a way of lying. Try to avoid that..
A red herring is also bringing up claims that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Wow, yes, go break open some weather rock. Crap, this is basic stuff. If you know this little you disqualify yourself from the argument. The rocks that we are discussing are not porous. Water cannot enter.
Prometheus85
Active Member
So Jesus wasn’t t truly dead? He was just in a coma? And they weren’t checking for brain pulses 2000 yrs ago because they didn’t know anything about that. What does putting bells near graves have to do with anything? Again, when u say resurrection can happen when you can figure out if someone is dead or not is a medical resurrection. However, this usually only occurs in very short time frames (a few minutes) between death and "resurrection" and assumes that all bodily functions have not completely shut down. For example when someone gets shot and his or her life is hangs in the balance the emt’s are using baisc medical Procedures to keep that alive but he/she dies before they get to the hospital and receive real medical assistance. No amount of medical tech is going to bring that person back from the dead because all bodily functions have completely shutdown before any life saving medical tech can be applied. I don’t see were u are going with comparing peoples lives being saved threw 21st century science and Jesus Miraculously coming back form the dead 2000 yrs ago
Jollybear
Hey
The heat and the metamorchism of the rock does change its form and can change its color. If you think otherwise, do you have proof source?
If you say so.....
Lol, no, not just smoke. Look at the quote. It says "fire" and "furnace" as well.
Plus, logically, if you have a whole mountain up in smoke, youl have fire somewhere.
My claim relates to the mountain. That means theres no red herring.
Water or wind dont have to enter rock in order to wither it. Over time, LOTS of time, the rock will erode as the wind or water flows over its surface.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
We are talking about this particular formation. Once again if you understood the sources that I used you would understand this. You are trying to shift the burden of proof by asking improper questions.
If you say so.....
Can you be honest? When you have shown an inability to do so the use of smileys is incredibly wrong.
Apply it properly. And you are not using logic. Until you do you should not use that phrase.
Wrong again.
Oh my
Jollybear
Hey
Sometimes the burden of proof needs to be shifted. In this case, heres why. This quote is from the wiki source you gave me.
"When a rock is contact altered by an igneous intrusion it very frequently becomes more indurated, and more coarsely crystalline. Many altered rocks of this type were formerly called hornstones, and the term hornfels is often used by geologists to signify those fine grained, compact, non-foliated products of contact metamorphism. A shale may become a dark argillaceous hornfels, full of tiny plates of brownish biotite; a marl or impure limestone may change to a grey, yellow or greenish lime-silicate-hornfels or siliceous marble, tough and splintery, with abundant augite, garnet, wollastonite and other minerals in which calcite is an important component. A diabase or andesite may become a diabase hornfels or andesite hornfels with development of new hornblende and biotite and a partial recrystallization of the original feldspar. Chert or flint may become a finely crystalline quartz rock; sandstones lose their clastic structure and are converted into a mosaic of small close-fitting grains of quartz in a metamorphic rock called quartzite."
So, you see, yes, metamorphic rock can and does change not just form, but color too. A change in form would also logically lead to a change in color. Even if ever so slightly.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There is no need to underline or bolden words. If you don't understand simply say so. Don't spout nonsense and grasp at the slightest straw that seems to support your claims.
So, since you failed, wrong again.
EDIT: Let me give you a clue, you are barking up the wrong tree by relying on contact metamorphism.
Jollybear
Hey
You must be divorced right? She initiated it i bet. My correct?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope. Just because you are wrong is no excuse for personal attacks.
Jollybear
Hey
So, you wer never married or never divorced? Ever?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let's keep on topic. You don't want me dissecting your relationships based on your inability to own up to your countless errors here.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why is it that the weak in faith are so quick to violate the Ninth Commandment?
Jollybear
Hey
Was your wife or girl friend weak in faith?
Do you have a son or daughter? Have you drove them crazy? You should call them up and say "this is dad, im sorry for being the way i am, my intent is good, but my method of approuch has been terrible and i know its driven you away. Im sorry. Can we go for dinner, my treat."
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Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is my opinion that if this story happened at all, we are dealing with someone who was misdiagnosed as dead.
You don't have the coroner's report for Jesus. You cannot be certain he was dead. He was taken down shortly after passing out. Even Pilate is shocked he died so soon 'cause it usually takes a long time. In John, at least, there is the possibility he had fluid overload and the spear to the side relieved the pressure, but I've seen personally what happens when you drain fluids too quickly -- their vitals tank. You can't even put in a urinary catheter and drain a liter or two of urine all at once. You have clamp, release, clamp, release, etc. So, Jesus gets popped like a blister and he faints and the body is taken down and placed in a nice cool secluded place with air in it. He wakes up a few days later and hightails it out of the area.
We wouldn't be having this conversation had he been beheaded or buried in a grave under lots of dirt.