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God's Great Success

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God's great success? He said he was sorry he created man and flooded the whole world, allegedly, to rid the world of evil men and animals and Nephilim. Did he rid the world of evil? No. He wasn't successful.
If I were a Christian, I'd be wondering about God's plan. He makes a spirit creature that he knows will rebel? Then he sends this evil spirit being to Earth? But, to save the day, God sends his only Son, Jesus, to save the day? By having him killed?
But who, other than Christians, believes that. And what's worse, Christians believe the next step is total destruction of the Earth and most of its inhabitants....................

To me, God was successful in saving (delivering / rescuing) Noah and company from that violent world - Genesis 6:11.
Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil being drawn out by his own desire to have humans worship him.
The corrupted Jewish leaders had the Romans do their dirty work of killing Jesus.

Absolutely NO destruction of Earth because as Ecclesiastes 1:4 B says: the Earth abides forever.
God will bring to ruin, NOT Earth, but as Revelation 11:18 B says: bring to ruin those ruining Earth.
And, as Jesus promised that humble meek people will inherit the Earth at Matthew 5:5. - Psalms 37:9-11.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth will rid the Earth of wickedness - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Upright people will remain on Earth as per Proverbs 2:21-22.
So, what is headed for total disaster is NOT Earth but corrupted people on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
It is very wrong to say real Christians believe in total destruction, but rather through Jesus there will be ' healing ' for earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2. Healing is coming as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
Blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations. That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come ! Come and bring heavenly blessings to Earth for people of goodwill.
 
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1213

Well-Known Member
...So we've been faihful to G-d's plan whether we believe in Him or not. Now what? What do our sacred writings or worldview tell us to do at this point in history and why?

All people would still fit on ice of the biggest lake in Finland. So, there is still much room. But I think people should also guard and preserve environment, because:

Yahweh God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep [=guard, preserve] it.
Gen. 2:15

Also, it would be good to love others as God has told.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
God's great success? He said he was sorry he created man and flooded the whole world, allegedly, to rid the world of evil men and animals and Nephilim. Did he rid the world of evil? No. He wasn't successful.

If I were a Christian, I'd be wondering about God's plan. He makes a spirit creature that he knows will rebel? Then he sends this evil spirit being to Earth? But, to save the day, God sends his only Son, Jesus, to save the day? By having him killed?

There are many problems with a worldview based on Christian fundamentalist literal interpretation. I personally can't take it seriously and wonder if the belief tu parody is so flawed as to be harmful.

But who, other than Christians, believes that. And what's worse, Christians believe the next step is total destruction of the Earth and most of its inhabitants. But, Baha'is believe that a tremendous upheaval is eminent also don't they? So, either way, Christian or Baha'i, the world is heading towards disaster. Christians say that after the disaster Jesus will return and make everything perfect. Baha'is say that the "Christ" has already come, and the leaders of the nations didn't listen to him, so now, the disaster will happen... and people will then turn to the Baha'i Faith to show people the way to restore the Earth.

In a sense Armageddon started in 1914 with WWI.

On a number of occasions 'Abdu'l-Bahá spoke of Armageddon in connection with the "Great War"' of 1914-1918.

We are on the eve of the battle of Armageddon, referred to in the 16th chapter of Revelation. The time is two years hence, when only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe. The social unrest in all countries, the growing religious skepticism antecedent to the millennium are already here. Only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe as is prophesied in the verses of Daniel and in the Book [Rev.] of John....

Certain of Shoghi Effendi's letters reflected upon the challenges accompanying the spread of the Bahá'í religion use the language of an apocalyptic battle. In 1947 in "The Challenging Requirements of the Present Hour":

The stage is set. The hour is propitious. The signal is sounded. Bahá'u'lláh's spiritual battalions are moving into position. The initial clash between the forces of darkness and the army of light ... is being registered by the denizens of the Abhá Kingdom ["celestial worlds"]. The Author of the Plan that has set so titanic an enterprise in motion is Himself mounted at the head of these battalions, and leads them on to capture the cities of mens' hearts.

In a cable of June 1957 Shoghi Effendi drew attention to the fact that horrendous events and anti-Bahá'í activity foreshadowed the "dire contests" predicted by 'Abdu'l-Bahá which were destined to "range the Army of Light against the forces of darkness, both secular and religious."

Such apocalyptic language rooted in the Bible and the Qur'án is not uncommon in the writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. In spreading the Bahá'í teachings, Bahá'ís believe that they are working for the establishment of the "Kingdom of God" on earth "as it is in heaven" The "people of Bahá" as Bahá'u'lláh referred to his followers, strive both indirectly for the "lesser peace" and more distantly and directly for the "most great peace." In many of his letters Shoghi Effendi counselled Bahá'ís to spread the unitative message of Bahá'u'lláh; not to obtain a privileged place in an exclusivist "heaven" but in order to shift humanity away from the consequences of its sometimes materialistic, racist and divisive ways.

An Armageddon scenario has continued after world war I. This terrible war could be viewed as having had continuing ramifications on into world war II and beyond. Shoghi Effendi saw world war I as a "terrible conflict, the first stage in a titanic convulsion long predicted by Bahá'u'lláh..."

In a letter addressed to the national spiritual assembly of the United States and Canada a year or so before the outbreak of world war II (dated 5 July 1938), Shoghi Effendi reckoned the years ahead "pregnant" in the light of "...The twin processes of internal disintegration and external chaos" which were being "accelerated" daily and "inexorably moving towards a climax." Clearly predicting world war II, he wrote that, "The rumblings that must precede the eruption of those forces that must cause 'the limbs of humanity to quake' can already be heard..." Reference was made to biblical terminology when he further stated that '... The time of the end', 'the latter years', as foretold in the Scriptures, are at long last upon us. The Pen of Bahá'u'lláh, the voice of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, have time and again, insistently and in terms unmistakable, warned an unheeding humanity of impending disaster..."

Shoghi Effendi wrote in 1939 at the time of the outbreak of the world war II. This terrible war is referred to in its opening lines as "A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course" and "catastrophic in its immediate effects." That Hidden Word (Persian No. 63, see above) mentioning an "unforseen calamity" and a "grievous retribution" was cited in this connection. In a communication of Shoghi Effendi dated 13 December 1941, world war II was clearly identified as the "most great convulsion" prophesied throughout the ages,

[The] most great convulsion envisaged by [the] Prophets from Isaiah to Bahá'u'lláh, catastrophic in violence, planetary in range [is] assailing, at long last, [the] predominating nations [of the] Asiatic [and] American continents.

The two world wars do not, in Shoghi Effendi's viewpoint, close the period of apocalyptic "calamity." In a letter to an individual Bahá'í dated 8 January 1949, he reckoned that, in the light of the continuing waywardness of humanity, it was "too late to avert catastrophic trials" and anticipated "still more violent upheaval and agony." Later that same year he stated that "we do not know what form the immediate future will take, anywhere" and mentioned that "great suffering will be experienced." Then also on 21 November 1949, Shoghi Effendi's viewpoint was expressed as follows, "... We have no indication of exactly what nature the [coming] apocalyptic upheaval will be; it might be another war." According to a letter written on his behalf in 1954, he "has never stated how far-reaching the effects of a future war will be, or what other catastrophes may accompany it or follow it." During 1956, he stated that "... the condition that the world is in is bringing many issues to a head. It would be perhaps impossible to find a nation or people not in a state of crisis today. The materialism, the lack of true religion and the consequent baser forces in human nature which are being released, have brought the whole world to the brink of probably the greatest crisis it has ever faced or will have to face."

A variety of possible apocalyptic scenarios were foreseen by Shoghi Effendi in the light of international affairs and the writings of Bahá'u'lláh and 'Abdu'l-Bahá. While most notably in the late 1940s and early 1950s he both wrote and spoke of terrible, cataclysmic trials to afflict humanity and destabilise humankind, he nonetheless articulated a variety of possible futures which may or may not be realised. Future events depend on interrelated, complex, numerous and often all but unfathomable factors; such as, for example, the "positive" and "negative" state of humanity (ever-changing segments of global society), that of the constantly evolving Bahá'í and other religious communities and the inscrutable operations of the divine providence. Futurology and "prophecy" involves multiple possible futures. A third possibly nuclear world war, for example, is not necessarily anticipated in the Bahá'í writings. Scores of conflicts currently afflict humanity along with many tokens of international co-operation and reconciliation. Apocalyptic trials have afflicted humanity for most of the 20th century; a century of "light" (progress) as well as a century of terrible "darkness" (calamity). Current and increasing globalisation, is furthermore, both renewing and destabilising.

The basic purpose of whatever does or does not comes to pass is, from the Bahá'í point of view, viewed positively. Human history is fundamentally for the furtherance of the unity in diversity of humankind. It has been stated that it is often through cataclysmic difficulties that, " humanity can and must be welded into some form of political unity – such as a World Federal State."

Bahá'í scripture, then, has a realistic appraisal of "catastrophe" when it focuses upon the major wars and continuing socio-economic and other disruptions of the 20th century. It recognises various underlying dimensions of "catastrophe"; such as human activities revolving around materialism; racism and excessive nationalism. The decadent state of aspects of contemporary society may be seen to be an aspect of the end-time "catastrophe." Humanity is only now beginning to see itself as an international community in need of a world order and internationally regulated justice. "Lesser peace" secular co-operation among nations and peoples is beginning. Whether or not the many "catastrophes" currently afflicting humanity will precipitate yet another major war is something that cannot be predicted. Bahá'ís are certainly advised not to dwell on such a possibility and remain confident of the bright millennial future of mankind, the coming "most great peace."

Adapted from...

Catastrophe, Armageddon and Millennium

Is that close to what you believe? If so, do Baha'is believe their is a way to avoid the disaster, or is it too late?

From the promise of world peace 1985....

Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible.
 
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