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Are we a simulation?

allfoak

Alchemist
If so, then is it organic or artificial?

Acts 17:28
‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

New International Version (NIV)

Footnotes:

Acts 17:28 From the Cretan philosopher Epimenides
Acts 17:28 From the Cilician Stoic philosopher Aratus
Bible Gateway passage: Acts 17:28 - New International Version


Do we live within an all knowing, ever present Mind?
If this is true, then the simulation must be organic in nature not as the current hypothesis suggests, which is that we live in a computer generated simulation.
Are we part of an organic simulation?
This would solve one of the problems with the current hypothesis.
That being: "How do you simulate consciousness?"
If the simulation is organic in nature then consciousness would be a natural part of the expansion and growth of the universe.

Today there is a wide measure of agreement, which on the physical side of science approaches almost to unanimity, that the stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears as an accidental intruder into the realm of matter; we are beginning to suspect that we ought rather to hail it as a creator and governor of the realm of matter...
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
If so, then is it organic or artificial?

Apologies for answering your question with a question, but how would one know?

Do we live within an all knowing, ever present Mind?

No. In my view, I am the "ever present Mind."

If this is true, then the simulation must be organic in nature not as the current hypothesis suggests, which is that we live in a computer generated simulation.

On what grounds are you arriving at this conclusion?

That being: "How do you simulate consciousness?"

In my view, there is no simulation of consciousness since I am consciousness.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Informational Structural Realism is kind of like a simulation but requires no moving parts, no time and no outside computer. It actually allows for us to not exist while seeming like we do. Also it allows for consciousness and knowledge without thoughts. Some versions of this idea assume binary numbers, but that is merely for convenience for mathematicians.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Simulation seems a fair possibility. Any reality hackers willing to share their tricks can send pm. ;)
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
If so, then is it organic or artificial?




Do we live within an all knowing, ever present Mind?
If this is true, then the simulation must be organic in nature not as the current hypothesis suggests, which is that we live in a computer generated simulation.
Are we part of an organic simulation?
This would solve one of the problems with the current hypothesis.
That being: "How do you simulate consciousness?"
If the simulation is organic in nature then consciousness would be a natural part of the expansion and growth of the universe.

I used to firmly believe that we are a simulation, due to anomalous personal experience.

I often wrestled with whether or not we are simulated people in a simulated universe or brains in vats plugged into a virtual reality – or perhaps a bit of both? I always fancied myself as an artificial intelligence!

I’ve moved on from this belief though. I am currently agnostic as to whether or not we are in a simulation.

I suppose there’s no real way of telling and that we can never know.

Edit: but I personally am going to carry on as if we aren't, which I believe is much much much more likely

Further edit: I see - is the simulation itself organic? well, is there really a distinction to be made, if we are talking about things beyond our understanding?
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How can you be so sure?
Pain.

Unless you think you can hurt a simulation to a point it reels in agony.

Can a simulation dream?

Are the characters in my video game actually alive with some form of awareness?

Also where are the glitches and bugs that come with simulations?

Can you imagine the amount of energy required to run something like that?

Lastly, even a simulation is in fact an aspect of reality in the same way our own virtual creations are.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Pain.

Unless you think you can hurt a simulation to a point it reels in agony.

Can a simulation dream?

Are the characters in my video game actually alive with some form of awareness?

Also where are the glitches and bugs that come with simulations?

Can you imagine the amount of energy required to run something like that?

Lastly, even a simulation is in fact an aspect of reality in the same way our own virtual creations are.

If it can feel pain then it wouldn't be a simulation, it would feel therefore it would be real -- regardless of if it is or is not organic - on a technological phenomenon or in a body - if there is a meaningful distinction to be made between the two. It would therefore be alive.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
If so, then is it organic or artificial?

Do we live within an all knowing, ever present Mind?
If this is true, then the simulation must be organic in nature not as the current hypothesis suggests, which is that we live in a computer generated simulation.
Are we part of an organic simulation?
This would solve one of the problems with the current hypothesis.
That being: "How do you simulate consciousness?"
If the simulation is organic in nature then consciousness would be a natural part of the expansion and growth of the universe.

A "machine" is any causal physical system, hence we are machines; thus, machines can be conscious. The question is: What type of machines could be conscious? Odds are robots passing the Turing Test Turing test - Wikipedia would be indistinguishable from us in their behavioral capacities --and could be conscious (i.e. feel), but we can never be certain. There's no way for any "conscious" being to know whether or not he is actually experiencing a virtual reality produced by an interface between his brain and a computer .

However, there are some possible indications we are living in a computer simulation....

1. A particle passing through a double-slit behaves as a wave causing an interference pattern when unobserved, but this same particle doesn't create an interference pattern when its path of travel can be determined by an observer. This collapse of the wave-function could be happening in order to save computational resources necessary for our simulated reality.

2. There is indeed a mark of intelligence left in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

This mark of intelligence left in our genetic coding is indicative of an intelligent designer, who may be responsible for the simulation of our reality.

3. Theoretical physicist Dr. S. James Gates Jr. has revealved that a certain string theory, super-symmetrical equations describing the nature and reality of our universe, contains embedded computer codes; these codes have digital data in the form of 0's and 1's identical to what makes web browsers function, and they're error-correct codes.


At least one of the following statements is very likely to be true:

1. Human civilization or a comparable civilization is unlikely to reach a level of technological maturity capable of producing simulated realities or such simulations are physically impossible to construct.
2. A comparable civilization reaching aforementioned technological status will likely not produce a significant number of simulated realities (one that might push the probable existence of digital entities beyond the probable number of "real" entities in a Universe) for any of a number of reasons, such as diversion of computational processing power for other tasks, ethical considerations of holding entities captive in simulated realities, etc.
3. Any entities with our general set of experiences are almost certainly living in a simulation.
4. We are living in a reality in which posthumans have not developed yet and we are actually living in reality

"Bostrom's argument rests on the premise that given sufficiently advanced technology, it is possible to represent the populated surface of the Earth without recourse to digital physics; that the qualia experienced by a simulated consciousness are comparable or equivalent to those of a naturally occurring human consciousness, and that one or more levels of simulation within simulations would be feasible given only a modest expenditure of computational resources in the real world."

ARE YOU LIVING IN A COMPUTER SIMULATION? BY NICK BOSTROM

Faculty of Philosophy, Oxford University

Published in Philosophical Quarterly (2003) Vol. 53, No. 211, pp. 243-255.

Are You Living in a Simulation?
 
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Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
It can be tested.
Do go on.

Some physicists have proposed a method for testing if we are in a numerical simulated cubic space-time lattice Matrix or simulated universe with an underlying grid.
[1210.1847] Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation

Based on the assumption that there'd be finite computational resources, a simulated universe would be performed by dividing up the space-time continuum into individually separate and distinctive points. Analogous to mini-simulations that lattice-gauge theorists conduct to construct nuclei based on Quantum Chromodynamics, observable effects of a grid-like space-time have been studied from these computer simulations which use a 3-D grid to model how elementary particles move and collide with each other. Anomalies found in these simulations suggest that if we are in a simulation universe with an underlying grid, then there'd be various amounts of high energy cosmic rays coming at us from each direction; but if space is continuous, then there'd be high energy cosmic rays coming at us equally from every direction.

High Energy Physics - Phenomenology
Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation
Silas R. Beane, Zohreh Davoudi, Martin J. Savage
(Submitted on 4 Oct 2012 (v1), last revised 9 Nov 2012 (this version, v2))
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Some physicists have proposed a method for testing if we are in a numerical simulated cubic space-time lattice Matrix or simulated universe with an underlying grid.
[1210.1847] Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation

Based on the assumption that there'd be finite computational resources, a simulated universe would be performed by dividing up the space-time continuum into individually separate and distinctive points. Analogous to mini-simulations that lattice-gauge theorists conduct to construct nuclei based on Quantum Chromodynamics, observable effects of a grid-like space-time have been studied from these computer simulations which use a 3-D grid to model how elementary particles move and collide with each other. Anomalies found in these simulations suggest that if we are in a simulation universe with an underlying grid, then there'd be various amounts of high energy cosmic rays coming at us from each direction; but if space is continuous, then there'd be high energy cosmic rays coming at us equally from every direction.

High Energy Physics - Phenomenology
Constraints on the Universe as a Numerical Simulation
Silas R. Beane, Zohreh Davoudi, Martin J. Savage
(Submitted on 4 Oct 2012 (v1), last revised 9 Nov 2012 (this version, v2))

Thanks for posting this, but in the post from me that you quoted, I was asking @allfoak how one would know that the simulation is organic and and not artificial. He said it can be tested, and I asked him to go on about how.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Pain.

Unless you think you can hurt a simulation to a point it reels in agony.

Isn't pain just electrical signals interpreted by the brain? Why could they not be simulated?

Can a simulation dream?

I don't know. Do you know one cannot?

Are the characters in my video game actually alive with some form of awareness?

What video game are you playing? :D

Also where are the glitches and bugs that come with simulations?

Are there no simulations that exists that have no bugs or glitches? Can a simulation exist without one?

Can you imagine the amount of energy required to run something like that?

Yes, but in a simulation, you would not be privy to the power source.

Lastly, even a simulation is in fact an aspect of reality in the same way our own virtual creations are.

Indeed. And as I see it, that makes it possible for our reality to be a creation of an Absolute. :)
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Informational Structural Realism is kind of like a simulation but requires no moving parts, no time and no outside computer. It actually allows for us to not exist while seeming like we do. Also it allows for consciousness and knowledge without thoughts. Some versions of this idea assume binary numbers, but that is merely for convenience for mathematicians.
Seems contrary to my experience.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Do go on.
If it is organic then there should be a biofeedback mechanism in place for the purpose of experiencing and learning, thus causing the expansion of the universe.
Learn how this works and one now has control of the simulation rather than being controlled by it.
This is all possible because our consciousness would be separate from as well as connected to everyone else's and the universal consciousness . When one learns how to use this biofeedback one begins to grow and expand their own consciousness . This is the proof that the simulation exists but is organic in nature and is continually expanding through our experience.
The assumption would be that we would not have any control if it were not organic in nature.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Thanks for posting this, but in the post from me that you quoted, I was asking @allfoak how one would know that the simulation is organic and and not artificial. He said it can be tested, and I asked him to go on about how.

You've asked an unanswerable question. Right? Other than a simulated universe that is a numerical simulation performed on a cubic space-time lattice or grid, is there any other testable type of simulated universe?

If we were existing in a type of simulated reality other than one performed on a cubic space-time lattice or grid, then I'd like to know how anybody could go figure out whether or not we exist in some sort of non-cubic-space-time lattice or non-grid based simulated reality.
 
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Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Isn't pain just electrical signals interpreted by the brain? Why could they not be simulated?

Are there no simulations that exists that have no bugs or glitches? Can a simulation exist without one?

Also, who knows if simulations with bugs or glitches couldn't somehow be fixed without getting significantly noticed by anyone within the simulation.
 

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
If it is organic then there should be a biofeedback mechanism in place for the purpose of experiencing and learning, thus causing the expansion of the universe.
Learn how this works and one now has control of the simulation rather than being controlled by it.
This is all possible because our consciousness would be separate from as well as connected to everyone else's and the universal consciousness . When one learns how to use this biofeedback one begins to grow and expand their own consciousness . This is the proof that the simulation exists but is organic in nature and is continually expanding through our experience.
The assumption would be that we would not have any control if it were not organic in nature.

Interesting thoughts, do you have any citations from any scientific peer-reviewed journals that hypothesize an "organic" simulated reality as well as concurring with your methodology of testing for reaching the conclusion that consciousness exists within or not within an "organic" simulation?
 
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