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Study of Matthew

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I've been reading lonely man of faith about the two Adams of genesis.

The Lonely Man of Faith - Wikipedia

I digress. Its respectful question time.

What do you guys make of the number 40 in the Bible...like Jesus being 40 days tempted by the Devil and the Hebrew people spending 40 years in the desert?

I personally don't believe in Satan and demons but have no problem with those who do. Why are there only stories of demons getting cast out of people in the Synoptic gospels and not John or the Hebrew Bible?

25 Bible verses about Jesus Casting Out Demons
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I've been reading lonely man of faith about the two Adams of genesis.

The Lonely Man of Faith - Wikipedia

I digress. Its respectful question time.

What do you guys make of the number 40 in the Bible...like Jesus being 40 days tempted by the Devil and the Hebrew people spending 40 years in the desert?

I personally don't believe in Satan and demons but have no problem with those who do. Why are there only stories of demons getting cast out of people in the Synoptic gospels and not John or the Hebrew Bible?

25 Bible verses about Jesus Casting Out Demons
Looks like an interesting read... although I have so many books to catch up with.

I wondered the same about the number 40 and have found absolutely....... nothing. Moses fasted for forty years, Jesus also, forty days that the flood was on the earth, forty years in the desert. etc.

As for John, obviously there isn't anything that would tell us why so it is purely a subjective position. Some have offered that since John was well in age, he knew what was already written, had learned so much more through revelation and decided to share what was "new" in understanding.

As far as demons, though he didn't mention it there is this verse than lends us to think that he did know about it:
John 13:27And when Judas ate the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus looked at Judas and said, “What you are planning to do, go do it now.”

There are so many modern accounts of demons possession that I believe if you saw it, you would become a believer. There was a woman that was close to my wife's family that would speak in a man's voice and it would take five men to hold her down. My wife's mom, in her BC life, was a Satan worshipper.

On the opposite side of the coin, there are so many people "casting out devils" and there are none to cast out.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Like my wife at the age of 11 burying her head in the pillow of the bed she share with her two other siblings praying for three years: "God, send me a blue eyed American to take me to the US". To be frank, how it came about that my brother rented a room in her house is every bit a miracle. IMV....

Coincidence? Some people say yes and in many cases it would be. But as time has gone by, I realize the "the steps of the righteous are ordered by the Lord" and it happens too often to not think that God's Holy Spirit is involved here.
I hear ya as you know I also went through an almost three-year phase of my life whereas "coincidences" kept on reoccurring, only to finally realize that they couldn't have been coincidences.

BTW, I thought your eyes were more bloodshot than blue?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What are the health benefits of affective touch?
I did not grow up in a touchy-feely family but being married to an Italian for 51 years definitely changes that, and all our "kids" and grandkids are that way as well.

Great "therapy", imo!
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What do you guys make of the number 40 in the Bible...like Jesus being 40 days tempted by the Devil and the Hebrew people spending 40 years in the desert?
As you note, is a reoccurring number in scripture that implies completeness, as well as is 3, 7, 12, and 1000. .

I personally don't believe in Satan and demons but have no problem with those who do.
Ditto.

Even within orthodox Judaism there's some doubts about an actual "Satan" versus it possibly being symbolic of our natural tendency to choose what's sinful at times.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I also don't remember why Jews wear kippas.
Good question, but the answer is "unknown". Even one of the greatest Jewish sages, Maimonides, considered it optional even at synagogue because there's no Torah mandate for it.

One theory I've read is that it may have been worn in response to Christian men not wearing any head covering in church.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There are so many modern accounts of demons possession that I believe if you saw it, you would become a believer. There was a woman that was close to my wife's family that would speak in a man's voice and it would take five men to hold her down.
Supposedly "The Exorcist" was actually based on true events even though "Hollywoodized".

Now, I had a blind date once that... OK, I think I'll just stop there.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Good question, but the answer is "unknown". Even one of the greatest Jewish sages, Maimonides, considered it optional even at synagogue because there's no Torah mandate for it.
Maybe he forgot, too?

One theory I've read is that it may have been worn in response to Christian men not wearing any head covering in church.
I have a few theories about it that I keep forgetting. Perhaps at some point in the last 4000 years they were ordered by authorities to wear hats, and one of them promised that they would keep wearing them. Now they are stuck wearing them. Another theory is that it is sort of like taking off one's shoes, because you are adding a layer up high which would normally not be up there. A third theory is that it is used in place of sandals -- a way to keep that law of the unsandled in winter countries where its just too cold to wear sandles.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Maybe he forgot, too?


I have a few theories about it that I keep forgetting. Perhaps at some point in the last 4000 years they were ordered by authorities to wear hats, and one of them promised that they would keep wearing them. Now they are stuck wearing them. Another theory is that it is sort of like taking off one's shoes, because you are adding a layer up high which would normally not be up there. A third theory is that it is used in place of sandals -- a way to keep that law of the unsandled in winter countries where its just too cold to wear sandles.
No on even knows when it started and your hypotheses could be as good as any. As for myself, I prefer to stick to my oft-reoeated line here at RF: "I don't know".
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Supposedly "The Exorcist" was actually based on true events even though "Hollywoodized".

Now, I had a blind date once that... OK, I think I'll just stop there.
I just shared this with my wife... we just finished a belly laugh! :D
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I have that one. He makes an interesting argument that I should read again, because I don't remember it! I also don't remember why Jews wear kippas.
He compares the qualities of Adam in Genesis 1 with Adam in Genesis 2. One is idealistic, the other pragmatic. He relates the need to reconcile these two aspects of our nature through the loneliness and suffering we all experience.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
He compares the qualities of Adam in Genesis 1 with Adam in Genesis 2. One is idealistic, the other pragmatic. He relates the need to reconcile these two aspects of our nature through the loneliness and suffering we all experience.
Thanks.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I hear ya as you know I also went through an almost three-year phase of my life whereas "coincidences" kept on reoccurring, only to finally realize that they couldn't have been coincidences.

BTW, I thought your eyes were more bloodshot than blue?
the red makes the blue look bluer.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
the red makes the blue look bluer.
BTW, I also have blue eyes (Swedish on my mother's side + Celtic on my father's), and my hair used to be so blonde that it almost glowed. When I got older, my hair turned more brown, but since I spent to much time in the sun in the summer the top would blonde out again whereas some of my wife's relatives thought I actually died my hair.

That's when I had hair. :emojconfused:
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Chapter Five Overview

This chapter covers the beginning of the Sermon On the Mount given by Jesus on a hill in Capernaum.

Jesus says blessed are the peacekeepers, the oppressed, the poor in spirit, plus calls his disciples "the salt of the Earth".

Jesus says he didn't come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.

He teaches not to be prone to anger and lust, speaks out against divorce and an "eye for an eye", and says to "love your enemy" and to even pray for your persecutors.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
My Take

What a different tone that was commonly heard back then in eretz Israel whereas it was more the wealthy and those in higher positions in society that were viewed as being more blessed by God. We are to be "the church of the poor", not the health & wealth "gospel" of hedonism, materialism, and pride. It's "us" not just "me".

The part that used to be more confusing to me was how could Jesus say that he didn't come to abolish the Law and yet the Church began to walk away from the get-go, even with the apostles themselves? It wasn't until much later that I got it straight (or think I do) that what Jesus was doing was basically streamlining (simplifying) the Law, much like telling your teenage kids to "Clean up the room!", and undoubtedly they would do that immediately, right? :rolleyes: IOW, it's the "law of love" from God and all that He preached.

He also covers "heaven" and "hell", neither of which show up directly at least in the Tanakh. IMO, I'm not sure either exists, plus I'm not sure if I'd even want to be in heaven if both @KenS and @sealchan were to be there. :p

The issues of anger and lust I tend to view in more an indirect way. If you get angry because I just purposely stomped on your foot, or if I look at an attractive women and drool a bit (at my age, that happens anyway), I don't think this is what Jesus was referring to because these simply are "built in reactions since we're humans and I do believe God made us that way. Instead, I think it's more likely a prolonging of such emotions-- "attachments" as the Buddhists call them. IOW, "Get over it!".

Finally, the one thing I saved for last is, I believe, terribly important, and that is an overview of what Jesus was saying, namely that Christianity is a lifestyle, not just a set of beliefs. It's a call to action-- not a call to sit back in a rocking chair with p.c. thoughts running through our heads.

It's doing, not just thinking, imo. It's what can I do to try and leave this place at least a bit better then it was before I was born. It's which "tools" do I want my kids and grandkids to have so they're not just spectators but are part of the solution. It's standing up for what we know is right and moral, thus not necessarily expedient nor popular. It's commitment.


[OK, the collection plate will now be passed around, so please be very generous :)]

Your responses are welcome, so please contribute.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

The relationship between the Tanakh and the New Testament is a topic that has been round the block in RF.

Hebrews 8:13 exemplifies one position. Clearly the Old Testament bsed on the Mosaic and Davidic Testaments are still alive and will and I wonder if the word remnant is relevant.

Remnant (Bible) - Wikipedia

Its all somewhat of a sensitive and confusing subject.

My questions:

1/ What laws of the Tanakh are still relevant for Christians?

613 commandments - Wikipedia

2/ As Christians, in what manner should we conduct ourselves amidst the Jewish people?

3/ Does the remnant refer to the Jewish people or something else?

4/ What do these verses from Matthew 5:29-30 mean?

5/ Is Jesus changing Mosaic law with Matthew 5:31-32? What authority does He have to do this?

Thank you in advance for your responses.:)
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
My Take

What a different tone that was commonly heard back then in eretz Israel whereas it was more the wealthy and those in higher positions in society that were viewed as being more blessed by God. We are to be "the church of the poor", not the health & wealth "gospel" of hedonism, materialism, and pride. It's "us" not just "me".

The part that used to be more confusing to me was how could Jesus say that he didn't come to abolish the Law and yet the Church began to walk away from the get-go, even with the apostles themselves? It wasn't until much later that I got it straight (or think I do) that what Jesus was doing was basically streamlining (simplifying) the Law, much like telling your teenage kids to "Clean up the room!", and undoubtedly they would do that immediately, right? :rolleyes: IOW, it's the "law of love" from God and all that He preached.

He also covers "heaven" and "hell", neither of which show up directly at least in the Tanakh. IMO, I'm not sure either exists, plus I'm not sure if I'd even want to be in heaven if both @KenS and @sealchan were to be there. :p

The issues of anger and lust I tend to view in more an indirect way. If you get angry because I just purposely stomped on your foot, or if I look at an attractive women and drool a bit (at my age, that happens anyway), I don't think this is what Jesus was referring to because these simply are "built in reactions since we're humans and I do believe God made us that way. Instead, I think it's more likely a prolonging of such emotions-- "attachments" as the Buddhists call them. IOW, "Get over it!".

Finally, the one thing I saved for last is, I believe, terribly important, and that is an overview of what Jesus was saying, namely that Christianity is a lifestyle, not just a set of beliefs. It's a call to action-- not a call to sit back in a rocking chair with p.c. thoughts running through our heads.

It's doing, not just thinking, imo. It's what can I do to try and leave this place at least a bit better then it was before I was born. It's which "tools" do I want my kids and grandkids to have so they're not just spectators but are part of the solution. It's standing up for what we know is right and moral, thus not necessarily expedient nor popular. It's commitment.


[OK, the collection plate will now be passed around, so please be very generous :)]

Your responses are welcome, so please contribute.

When the Buddha achieved enlightenment after resisting temptation he resolved to teach what he had learned.

In a manner similar to the four noble truths and the eightfold path we have the Beatitudes. They are a concise list of inner psychological attitudes one must cultivate in order to achieve the kingdom of heaven. Your suffering becomes your credit.

Now I noticed that at the end of Chapter Four Jesus is out healing people and the types of maladies which are specified all seem to have to do with the nervous system.

It may be that the central revelation of Jesus is that the power of God to transform your life is available as the right effort made in ones own psychology. Taking care of inner world will resolve ones outer world. If not then your suffering is to your credit.

When we turn to look within we see a world of characters which are truly different voices within us. It is these voices that we should cultivate as a gardener. It is not so much an external Satan or God but the voices within us that must be heeded and confronted. These are the determiners of ones actions. Your inner enemies are a part of YOU, so cast them out or confront them or listen and love them as you would yourself.

Jesus is bringing a new level of self consciousness to the too much politicized and legalistic religion of his time.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:17-19

The relationship between the Tanakh and the New Testament is a topic that has been round the block in RF.

Hebrews 8:13 exemplifies one position. Clearly the Old Testament bsed on the Mosaic and Davidic Testaments are still alive and will and I wonder if the word remnant is relevant.

Remnant (Bible) - Wikipedia

Its all somewhat of a sensitive and confusing subject.

My questions:

1/ What laws of the Tanakh are still relevant for Christians?

613 commandments - Wikipedia

2/ As Christians, in what manner should we conduct ourselves amidst the Jewish people?

3/ Does the remnant refer to the Jewish people or something else?

4/ What do these verses from Matthew 5:29-30 mean?

5/ Is Jesus changing Mosaic law with Matthew 5:31-32? What authority does He have to do this?

Thank you in advance for your responses.:)

Jesus is attempting to remove ones attitude toward sin as a public outcome and toward an inner determination.

By recognizing the need for an individual to take responsibility for ones inner thoughts before they become outer consequences, one will see where ones effort and duty truly lies. By shockingly indicating that one does have some measure of control and choice about ones actions, Jesus hope's to spark an awakening of inner effort.

So cutting off a body part to prevent the destruction of the whole body...obviously no one would/could do this. But we SHOULD see that this is good reasoning...might we then not work harder to understand that one voice inside us who moves us to sin and address it before the sin emerges?

A certificate obtained is but a public cover for a spiritual failing...better to acknowledge that no public deed can give your ownership of the kingdom of your heart, mind and soul.
 
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