The Problem of Others: Do Not Judge Others: Matthew 7:1-6

Jesus taught...the measure of judgment you use on others will be used on you. You have failings much more significant than you can perceive in others. Do not give sacredness to dogs, pearls to pigs.

My questions are these:

• What is the scope (how far does this apply) of Jesus’ statement that we may not judge others?
• What is the psychological validity of the mote/beam metaphor?
• What political implications result from this teaching?
• Does the metaphors about dogs, pearls and pigs relate to jugding others? Or is this properly a separate topic?

sealchan said:

Jesus taught...the measure of judgment you use on others will be used on you. You have failings much more significant than you can perceive in others. Do not give sacredness to dogs, pearls to pigs.

My questions are these:

• What is the scope (how far does this apply) of Jesus’ statement that we may not judge others?
• What is the psychological validity of the mote/beam metaphor?
• What political implications result from this teaching?
• Does the metaphors about dogs, pearls and pigs relate to jugding others? Or is this properly a separate topic?

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I imagine that one shouldn't judge others to a level they themselves don't possess.

My view is we need to worry more about correcting our own inequities than that of others.

Understand that we are all human and prone to making mistakes.

I don't see the metaphor as relating. That relates more to understanding not everyone ready to understand the virtue of one's own argument.

You can judge all you like; just call it "discernment" and you're good to go.

sealchan said:

Jesus taught...the measure of judgment you use on others will be used on you. You have failings much more significant than you can perceive in others. Do not give sacredness to dogs, pearls to pigs.

My questions are these:

• What is the scope (how far does this apply) of Jesus’ statement that we may not judge others?
• What is the psychological validity of the mote/beam metaphor?
• What political implications result from this teaching?
• Does the metaphors about dogs, pearls and pigs relate to jugding others? Or is this properly a separate topic?

Click to expand...

As one judges others, so shall they be judged. A good example would be that the average "Christian" believes that those who do not believe in Christ, go to hell. A problem with that is that the average "Christian" doesn't believe in what Yeshua has said, and has nailed the actual Word of God to the cross, and have worshipped the beast and his false prophet. Since they have mentally tossed those who do not believe as they do into the fire, what will be their judgment? According to Revelation 14:10-11, as they apparently carry the mark of the beast and his false prophet, they will have to drink from the cup of the wrath of God, which apparently incudes smoke and fire.

Nakosis said:

I imagine that one shouldn't judge others to a level they themselves don't possess.

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That could easily turn out to be personally embarrassing I would think. But we might humbly try to assess how safe or reliable or trustworthy someone is. We should do this much to maintain our own safety and the safety of those who are in our care.

My view is we need to worry more about correcting our own inequities than that of others.

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I would say this is Psychology 101.

Understand that we are all human and prone to making mistakes.

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Yes, except, of course, in politics. <put wink smiley here>

I don't see the metaphor as relating. That relates more to understanding not everyone ready to understand the virtue of one's own argument.

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I'm not sure I do either but what I said about assessing other's safety might actually provide a link to this last bit of scripture...I will return to that in a later post.

Axe Elf said:

You can judge all you like; just call it "discernment" and you're good to go.

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Yes, and this raises a huge question...certainly we need to assess whether someone is trustworthy or safe or reliable. That requires judgment. I can't see that we should dispense with this and, in fact, we cannot and be held accountable ourselves.

So this teaching I think may be meant to indicate judging the whole person and coming to a conclusion as to their total value. In other words we can't dismiss a person entirely.

2ndpillar said:

As one judges others, so shall they be judged. A good example would be that the average "Christian" believes that those who do not believe in Christ, go to hell. A problem with that is that the average "Christian" doesn't believe in what Yeshua has said, and has nailed the actual Word of God to the cross, and have worshipped the beast and his false prophet. Since they have mentally tossed those who do not believe as they do into the fire, what will be their judgment? According to Revelation 14:10-11, as they apparently carry the mark of the beast and his false prophet, they will have to drink from the cup of the wrath of God, which apparently incudes smoke and fire.

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There is this possibility...that we judge, In God's name, by referencing scripture or whatever we have been taught is of scripture and then we find ourselves on the wrong side of that. That could be much more than embarrassing.

Of course, we also have the issue of who is right and how are any of us to judge what reading, what interpretation is correct. There must be something more than just reading the Bible and coming to an understanding of it in our faith.

On my part I think that one's personal testimony, personal experience and also scientific or scholarly perspectives on psychology are crucial additional vantage points for triangulating what is truly universal in terms of how scripture describes the possibilities of human experience.

sealchan said:

That could easily turn out to be personally embarrassing I would think. But we might humbly try to assess how safe or reliable or trustworthy someone is. We should do this much to maintain our own safety and the safety of those who are in our care.

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There's a good point here. Generally I see no reason to trust someone you don't know. I suppose I don't see it as a judgement, more a statement of fact. "No reason to trust you", that's not IMO a judgement. Experience can show whether you can actually trust or need to continue to not trust a person. At which point it is still more a statement of fact.

I know or presume not everyone does it this way. Some people will judge others based on how they look for example.

In this case it seems an appropriate saying right? Don't judge someone else based on their looks because you are equally likely to be judge on your looks.

I think it's more important to realize even someone who looks pleasing to you, you've really have no reason to trust as well. Just a statement of fact, not a judgement IMO.

Nakosis said:

There's a good point here. Generally I see no reason to trust someone you don't know. I suppose I don't see it as a judgement, more a statement of fact. "No reason to trust you", that's not IMO a judgement. Experience can show whether you can actually trust or need to continue to not trust a person. At which point it is still more a statement of fact.

I know or presume not everyone does it this way. Some people will judge others based on how they look for example.

In this case it seems an appropriate saying right? Don't judge someone else based on their looks because you are equally likely to be judge on your looks.

I think it's more important to realize even someone who looks pleasing to you, you've really have no reason to trust as well. Just a statement of fact, not a judgement IMO.

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Yes, this is a good point and Jesus mentioned "the measure you use". It seems that when we judge, perhaps, we are always using a measure. This raises the question, "what is that measure?" and "how do I myself measure up?"

So if one judges in a way to make the other seem like they do not live up to a measure, but, in fact, you yourself do not even measure up, then we have a nice little piece of wisdom here.

Now how about if one judges another by a measure that one does look good in? Let's go back to teenager days and think like an adolescent...let's say I am a smarty-pants and I judge a "jock" as being an idiot. I might be able to pass my own measurement test. But what will happen...the jock will turn around and maybe threaten me with a good roughing up. Now I am feeling sorry!

Now I should not have made that assessment, but this particular saying of Jesus does not seem to apply as much.

Maybe this is where the mote/beam metaphor comes in...

sealchan said:

On my part I think that one's personal testimony, personal experience and also scientific or scholarly perspectives on psychology are crucial additional vantage points for triangulating what is truly universal in terms of how scripture describes the possibilities of human experience.

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I am thinking that your perspective puts you on the outside looking in per Matthew 11:25.

Nakosis said:

There's a good point here. Generally I see no reason to trust someone you don't know. I suppose I don't see it as a judgement, more a statement of fact. "No reason to trust you", that's not IMO a judgement. Experience can show whether you can actually trust or need to continue to not trust a person. At which point it is still more a statement of fact.

I know or presume not everyone does it this way. Some people will judge others based on how they look for example.

In this case it seems an appropriate saying right? Don't judge someone else based on their looks because you are equally likely to be judge on your looks.

I think it's more important to realize even someone who looks pleasing to you, you've really have no reason to trust as well. Just a statement of fact, not a judgement IMO.

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John 7:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

2ndpillar said:

I am thinking that your perspective puts you on the outside looking in per Matthew 11:25.

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I am where I feel God wants me to be. So long as God leads us, who are we to question where?

Do not judge...

2ndpillar said:

John 7:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

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So what is righteous judgment in your view?

Jesus was condemning hypocritical judgment. Matthew 7:5-"Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Anna Therese said:

Jesus was condemning hypocritical judgment. Matthew 7:5-"Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

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Yes, but Jesus is also seeming to claim that we always have this beam in our own eye. Is this true? Should we all just assume to have this beam? Or can some of us demonstrate that we don't so that we are free to judge the merits and flaws of others?

sealchan said:

Yes, but Jesus is also seeming to claim that we always have this beam in our own eye. Is this true? Should we all just assume to have this beam? Or can some of us demonstrate that we don't so that we are free to judge the merits and flaws of others?

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No. It's clear that He says not to denounce someone for doing something which you yourself do. Jesus was not condemning all judgments or denunciations, but hypocritical ones. There are passages which show that Christians must judge. Here's one:

1 Corinthians 6:1-3- “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints? Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things of this world?”

Anna Therese said:

No. It's clear that He says not to denounce someone for doing something which you yourself do. Jesus was not condemning all judgments or denunciations, but hypocritical ones. There are passages which show that Christians must judge. Here's one:

1 Corinthians 6:1-3- “Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints? Know you not that the saints shall judge this world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things of this world?”

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This was said in the context of the early Christian community seeking justice outside of that community. I think here that the new Christians are still cutting their teeth on their new ethic and not connecting that with their old way of thinking about justice. To not trust in that ethic, or revelation, is to devalue it.

So who thinks that they are a hypocrite so that they know that this teaching of Jesus is directed at themselves? Under what circumstances would one be instructed by this teaching? Do non-Christians also not approve of hypocrites?

Certainly, I agree that we all are judges. I think that this must be a basic life skill and those that cannot make good judgments often suffer and bring suffering to others as a result. We should grow our wisdom as to how to use good judgment and Jesus is indicating the way.

But I think that Jesus is saying more than just "don't be a hypocrite". I think he is saying that we are fundamentally poor of sight and that we should begin there.

What I would say is that there are modern theories of personality development that can show us particular ways in which this is true. Knowing our own blindness we can then begin the essential, moral work of rectifying or, at least, humbly mitigating that blindness. I believe that the teachings of Jesus had deep psychological insight on this and that only now coming to light in modern scientific understanding.

sealchan said:

Yes, but Jesus is also seeming to claim that we always have this beam in our own eye. Is this true? Should we all just assume to have this beam? Or can some of us demonstrate that we don't so that we are free to judge the merits and flaws of others?

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Yeshua is addressing the "hypocrites", and the main "hypocrite"/"Pharisee"/"leaven" (Matthew 16:6) was Paul, your supposed brother, leader and teacher, who taught that he kept God's law with his mind, and the "law of sin" with his "flesh" (Romans 7:25), and like the present pope, exclaimed that it wasn't him who sinned, but the "evil present within me" (Romans 7:20). Sin begins in the mind and heart, and one doesn't sin in the flesh, unless it starts in the mind and heart. As long as one is a hypocrite, one can assume they have a beam in their eye (Matthew 5:28 & 6:23).

As for "righteousness", one must first seek His kingdom, and His righteousness (Matthew 6:33), and righteousness is the opposite of "wickedness"/sin/transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) & (Malachi 3:18). "Righteousness" is the "level" used for building "Zion" upon the "tested stone" (Isaiah 28:16-17). On the other hand, you seem to rely on the "covenant with death", the false gospel of grace, which "shall not stand" (Isaiah 28:18), and petros, instead of petras for your foundation stone. (Matthew 16:18).

sealchan said:

Jesus taught...the measure of judgment you use on others will be used on you. You have failings much more significant than you can perceive in others. Do not give sacredness to dogs, pearls to pigs.

My questions are these:

• What is the scope (how far does this apply) of Jesus’ statement that we may not judge others?
• What is the psychological validity of the mote/beam metaphor?
• What political implications result from this teaching?
• Does the metaphors about dogs, pearls and pigs relate to jugding others? Or is this properly a separate topic?

Click to expand...

What your saying, is the same as many Christians are taught ( Judge not, for in the way you Judge, you shalt be Judge)

But seeing that you and alot of Christians only quote half of what Jesus said.

Jesus also said, "Judge not by the appearance, but Judge righteous judgement"

What this mean is don't judge someone by their appearance alone, because the appearance can by deceiving.

Just because someone walks like their drunk, it could be they have a physical defect, that prevents them from walking normal. So they were judge by their appearance and not by righteous judgement.
So a person can judge, as long as they don't judge by the appearance alone, but by righteous judgement.

2ndpillar said:

Yeshua is addressing the "hypocrites", and the main "hypocrite"/"Pharisee"/"leaven" (Matthew 16:6) was Paul, your supposed brother, leader and teacher, who taught that he kept God's law with his mind, and the "law of sin" with his "flesh" (Romans 7:25), and like the present pope, exclaimed that it wasn't him who sinned, but the "evil present within me" (Romans 7:20). Sin begins in the mind and heart, and one doesn't sin in the flesh, unless it starts in the mind and heart. As long as one is a hypocrite, one can assume they have a beam in their eye (Matthew 5:28 & 6:23).

As for "righteousness", one must first seek His kingdom, and His righteousness (Matthew 6:33), and righteousness is the opposite of "wickedness"/sin/transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) & (Malachi 3:18). "Righteousness" is the "level" used for building "Zion" upon the "tested stone" (Isaiah 28:16-17). On the other hand, you seem to rely on the "covenant with death", the false gospel of grace, which "shall not stand" (Isaiah 28:18), and petros, instead of petras for your foundation stone. (Matthew 16:18).

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Currently I am considering the Beatitudes of Matthew 5:3-12 as the way to cultivate righteousness. Out of these psychological attitudes one has a "right mind" to judge, perhaps. If one is pure in heart, wishing no gain over another, perhaps one's judgment is not hypocritical, for instance.

I agree that to sin is a matter of heart and mind. I understand that Jesus taught us to tend to our inner world in order to conquer ourselves in the outer world.