siti
Well-Known Member
Dunno! But there are scriptural grounds for assuming that he does not - for example it is said that "God...cannot lie" (Titus 1:2) - if it is impossible for God to choose to tell a lie how can he be said to have free will?
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Does God have Free Will?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
creating reality drew a lot of lines
tweaking the boundaries just whenever would be......inconsistent
miracles are fine as limited events
but on a large scale.....destructive
on the flip side.....knowing reality to it's finest detail.....
makes God .....the Almighty
By what reasoning are you asserting that someone's will must be being forced upon him if he does not have free will?
Good grief, Skwim! As an intelligent man, are you actually suggesting that a dictionary definition of a word is the only "honest" definition? If so, can you explain why you -- or perhaps any well informed person -- would believe such nonsense? Last, have you any idea how dictionaries are compiled?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Maybe I don't understand your question.
Is it possible for a god's nature to be such that the god does not have free will?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God is completely FREE to do whatever God wants to do, since God is omnipotent, but God will only do what God wants to do, not what we want Him to do (unless what we want is what God wants). This is a Baha'i belief which is reflected in the following passages:
“God witnesseth that there is no God but Him, the Gracious, the Best-Beloved. All grace and bounty are His. To whomsoever He will He giveth whatsoever is His wish. He, verily, is the All-Powerful, the Almighty, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting.” Gleanings, p. 73
“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209
“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284
“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209
“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284
Somewhere I read that God gave humans free will so we could at least experience some of what it is like to be like Him. Of course our will is not completely free since it is constrained by many factors, so we cannot do whatever we want to do, the way God can.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Never said it was the only definition, but because it is a dictionary definition it is an accepted and quite common one applicable to the context. For instance:
From Merriam Webster
From Oxford living Dictionary
NOTICE ANY COMMONALITY AMONG THEM? Look closely. I'll wait. . . . . . . . . . . . . find it? Good (I hope).From Oxford living Dictionary
EVIL
Profoundly immoral and wicked.
Profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
‘his struggle against the forces of evil’
1.1count noun A manifestation of profound immorality and wickedness, especially in people's actions.
From the Cambridge dictionaryProfoundly immoral and wicked.
Profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
‘his struggle against the forces of evil’
1.1count noun A manifestation of profound immorality and wickedness, especially in people's actions.
evil noun [ C/U ]
us /ˈi·vəl/
the condition of being immoral, cruel, or bad, or an act of this type:
[ U ] a contest between good and evil
From Random House Webster'sus /ˈi·vəl/
the condition of being immoral, cruel, or bad, or an act of this type:
[ U ] a contest between good and evil
Evil (e-vil), adj.
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked. evil: accompanied by misfortune or suffering.
And from my original posting1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked. evil: accompanied by misfortune or suffering.
e·vil
/ˈēvəl/
adjective: evil
1. profoundly immoral and malevolent.
noun: evil
1. profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
/ˈēvəl/
adjective: evil
1. profoundly immoral and malevolent.
noun: evil
1. profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
That said, obviously you have have a far better definition; one that isn't your own of course, but another common definition that better fits the context in which IsaiahX used it: "God, being good, cannot do anything evil,"
So I await this superior definition of yours, AND its source. Failing this I'll simply assume you're blowing smoke again.In any case, this thread is still too new to be taking it off topic, so this will be my last comment on the nature of evil here. Back to the issue of god and his lack of free will.
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Truly Enlightened
Well-Known Member
If God is All-Knowing then it is impossible for God to have free-will. And, If God does have free-will, then it is impossible for God to be All-Knowing. This paradox suggest that it is impossible for God to be or have both at the same time. There are many other paradoxes and self-contradictions, regarding omniscience, omnibenevolence, and omnipotence, that seem to suggest that a God cannot exist at all.
Truly Enlightened
Well-Known Member
So, do you believe that as long as an omnipotent, omnibenevolent being is ambivalent to the evil in the world, and does no evil Himself, that He will still remain All-good? I certainly disagree with your spin on Godly responsibility. Also, if God is limited by anything(including His own nature), then how can He be All-Powerful?
Never said it was the only definition, but because it is a dictionary definition it is an accepted and quite common one applicable to the context. For instance:
From Merriam WebsterNOTICE ANY COMMONALITY AMONG THEM? Look closely. I'll wait. . . . . . . . . . . . . find it? Good (I hope).
From Oxford living Dictionary
EVILFrom the Cambridge dictionary
Profoundly immoral and wicked.
Profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
‘his struggle against the forces of evil’
1.1count noun A manifestation of profound immorality and wickedness, especially in people's actions.
evil noun [ C/U ]From Random House Webster's
us /ˈi·vəl/
the condition of being immoral, cruel, or bad, or an act of this type:
[ U ] a contest between good and evil
Evil (e-vil), adj.And from my original posting
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked. evil: accompanied by misfortune or suffering.
e·vil
/ˈēvəl/
adjective: evil
1. profoundly immoral and malevolent.
noun: evil
1. profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
That said, obviously you have have a far better definition; one that isn't your own of course, but another common definition that better fits the context in which IsaiahX used it: "God, being good, cannot do anything evil,"
So I await this superior definition of yours, AND its source. Failing this I'll simply assume you're blowing smoke again.
In any case, this thread is still too new to be taking it off topic, so this will be my last comment on the nature of evil here. Back to the issue of god and his lack of free will.
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Skwim, I'm tired of waiting for you to get a clue --- just a clue! -- about how dictionaries are compiled. You treat them as if they were authorities on what is the proper and improper usage of words. Can a presumably educated man really be that ignorant of something so basic as what a dictionary is and isn't?
By the way, you seem to be under the impression that I am attempting to offer a definition of evil. I am not. I am calling out your abysmal ignorance of what a dictionary is.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
Seeing free will came from God, That means, God also has free will. That's Logical.
IsaiahX
Ape That Loves
If you want a verse supporting the first point, I would reccomend Isaiah 58:8-9. (also, it seems deities from any religion are at least a little inhuman. It seems to be a qualification for being a deity).
Secondly, whenever anyone in the bible has disobeyed God's commandments, it is often portrayed as causing that person suffering (Romans 6:23, Isaiah 59:2, Psalm 38:3). If someone sins without repenting, it can be assumed that they suffer spiritually and sometimes even physically, which God does not take pleasure in (1 Timothy 2:4), even though I believe he still does allow it for the greater good.
So could an omniscient god choose to deviate from what he knew he was going to do?
Titus 1:2 in context of the view of God in the OT reflects an ancient anthropomorphic view of God. God's Will is reflected in the nature of our physical existence, and its natural laws. The natural laws of our physical existence do not lie.
The citation may be interpreted that God does not lie nor tell the truth. The question of lieing or telling the truth reflects human attributes.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
ok...you highlighted.....moral.....more than onceNever said it was the only definition, but because it is a dictionary definition it is an accepted and quite common one applicable to the context. For instance:
From Merriam WebsterNOTICE ANY COMMONALITY AMONG THEM? Look closely. I'll wait. . . . . . . . . . . . . find it? Good (I hope).
From Oxford living Dictionary
EVILFrom the Cambridge dictionary
Profoundly immoral and wicked.
Profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
‘his struggle against the forces of evil’
1.1count noun A manifestation of profound immorality and wickedness, especially in people's actions.
evil noun [ C/U ]From Random House Webster's
us /ˈi·vəl/
the condition of being immoral, cruel, or bad, or an act of this type:
[ U ] a contest between good and evil
Evil (e-vil), adj.And from my original posting
1. morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked. evil: accompanied by misfortune or suffering.
e·vil
/ˈēvəl/
adjective: evil
1. profoundly immoral and malevolent.
noun: evil
1. profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.
That said, obviously you have have a far better definition; one that isn't your own of course, but another common definition that better fits the context in which IsaiahX used it: "God, being good, cannot do anything evil,"
So I await this superior definition of yours, AND its source. Failing this I'll simply assume you're blowing smoke again.
In any case, this thread is still too new to be taking it off topic, so this will be my last comment on the nature of evil here. Back to the issue of god and his lack of free will.
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and in several forms
but morality is a list of restraints we humans use
where did I see it?......which dictionary?
evil.....as in harm
evil....as in nature of a spirit.....desire to do harm
can God be evil?
and I did see it somewhere in scripture....
and God repented the evil He would do
(no harm dealt....He just considered it)
but there are several occasions where harm was dealt
Sodom and Gomorrah
the Great Flood
the plagues upon Egypt
and more
and again .....where did I see it?
Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God
Well, the gods I worship have clearly definable natures and limits given those natures. While the map is not the territory, there is often little to suggest that the gods have "will" as humans understand it, much less acausal "free" natures.
Then again, the idea of "free will" stopped making sense to me after I'd studied enough of the sciences as a kid, so I can't process it in general for anything.
Then again, the idea of "free will" stopped making sense to me after I'd studied enough of the sciences as a kid, so I can't process it in general for anything.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
The terms consciousness, God, free will...are all so closely linked that it is truly impossible to understand one without reference to the other...assuming you reference God at all.
God is the potential of what humanity can become as a product of how humanity was formed in the first place. Consciousness is the awareness of reality and the potential to alter that reality. Our sense of free will arises out of those moments when we perceive our story as it plays out within our consciousness, within the realm of what is and what could be, could have been other than it turned out to be.
sealchan
Well-Known Member
Can/would God do anything that is potentially evil/leaves open the possibility of evil? And if yes is He responsible, given His omniscience, for that outcome? And if not, then has God even the potential to do evil? And if so, then is God omnipotent?