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Eternal Hell, Scripture or ignorant theory?

bibleonly

Member
uth101 said…Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they,(This is not contrasting "they" as the physical universe to those who have the firstfruits. It is contrasting those (mankind) which do not have the firstfruits of the spirit to those who do.)

Romans 8:22-23.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only “ they”, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

First of all the word “ they” is in italics, meaning that it is not in the original text.

Pointing out the carelessness of your workmanship.

Grasping at the air for anything to come the aid of your false doctrine!

The translator were more sensitive to the Word of God than what you have shown thus far.

The reason you grasp at the attempt to make it part of the text is to prove your concocted guesswork.

There is no “they” in the text, (the plural pronouns to convey people is not there).

So it doesn’t necessary have to include all of mankind!

The Point is your rattling about words with no wisdom!

You arguing about a word that’s not in the text!

Then purport that you know what this text is talking about!

Your scholarly deeds have betrayed you!

Maybe it time to just read the Bible for season without commentary!

Nothing wrong with just listening to God’s Word without comment!
 

bibleonly

Member
CONTINUED...

The problem now is your insistent preoccupation with injustice!

You fail to realize that God is just and you are unjust!

Romans 3:10-20
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one
.
13
Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15
Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16
Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17
And the way of peace have they not known:
18
There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


We are all unjust before God deserving Eternal punishment for our crimes against the Eternal Majesty, Who made us to live eternally in obedience to His Eternal Will.

The punishment fits the crimes; we are murders, adulterers, and haters of God, etc. all crimes that are worthy of death.

Death not only to our bodies but also to our spirits and souls!

Guilty before God as charged!

Notice: no flesh is just in his sight by any work, payment, purification, etc!

Your purification theory, (that man will be purified by going through temporary punishment) is a ridiculous sham, which sound a lot like purgatory!

“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight

Nothing that man can do can ever undo sin!

That is the law of justice!

Life for Life!

God is perfectly just!
 

bibleonly

Member
Continued…

Man is unjust!

Man is ever trying to find a loophole in the Law!

There aren’t any loopholes!

The sentence is eternal Life in which we given!

We were made to exist forever!

It’s an eternal Life penalty, for crimes committed against an eternal God.

The law is holy, Romans 7:12
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It is Man who is unholy, unjust and no good!

There will be people that God leaves to themselves, Romans 1:24-25
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Does this make God unjust?

God is not unjust to render unto man what he has sowed!

There is a group of Humanity that justice will be executed with no Mercy!

Its up to the King Eternal to pardon sin if He so chooses!




So going back to Romans 8:19-23
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
There no mention of the people that God has justly left alone!

20 For the creation was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
No mention of the people that God has justly left alone!

We know this for certain because of the phrase “was made subject to vanity, not willingly” “gar mataiotes ho ktisis hupotasso ou hekon”

Because Satan’s lusted to be god in which Man also lusted to be as gods (with the swelling of vanity, man was lured through his lust willingly)!

2Peter 2:18
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, “mataiotes” they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.

Mankind willingly submitted to Satan through vanity of pride!

Consequently, God cursed mankind, who had been created by God to rule over this earth, because of their rebellion against God.

God, therefore, also cursed this beautiful world so that it no longer was a perfect creation.

The creation did not become subject to these curses willingly!


Therefore it doesn’t have humanity in view, man is who sinned against God willingly is in view!

Man and man alone rebelled against God.

Man and man alone was made subject to vanity, willingly
 

Truth101

Member
bibleonly said:
uth101 said…Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they,(This is not contrasting "they" as the physical universe to those who have the firstfruits. It is contrasting those (mankind) which do not have the firstfruits of the spirit to those who do.)
Romans 8:22-23.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only “ they”, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
First of all the word “ they” is in italics, meaning that it is not in the original text.
Pointing out the carelessness of your workmanship.
Grasping at the air for anything to come the aid of your false doctrine!
The translator were more sensitive to the Word of God than what you have shown thus far.
Really? Our translators have put the word "they" in there in the first place and for good cause because they (the translators) also realized that these verses are refering to people. "they" clarifies 'WHO' is being refered to, not 'WHAT' is not being refered to. You just keep reaching and reaching because your blindness will not allow you to see what is right in front of your eyes. "Ktisis" by your own admission includes all that is seen in creation especially including humankind since God is concerned with mankind not with "things". I never read the part where we are told that "God so loved the physical universe that He gave His only begotten Son that all the physical universe will be saved". Could you point that scripture out for me or maybe one that is along those lines? Something tells me that you'll suck a camel through a straw to find that one.
The reason you grasp at the attempt to make it part of the text is to prove your concocted guesswork.
There is no “they” in the text, (the plural pronouns to convey people is not there).
So it doesn’t necessary have to include all of mankind!
The very fact that you say it does not NECESSARILY have to include, shows that you yourself who 100%opposes this with an unsure word as necessarily. Honestly you do not even know what to believe. It either includes them or it doesn't. Come down off your theological doubltalking horse and just believe the truth. The truth is that it is always inv=cluding humanity. Our translators have translated "Ktisis" as creature for a reason. The passage has those who have the firstfruits of the spirit contrasted with those who do not unless the physical universe just might recieve the spirit of God. Come on with this nonsense. Its one thing to be mislead but to do the misleading is another all together. Your argument fails on all levels. There is not one shread of admissable evidence from you. All you have done is tear this passage up with your putting words in and taking words out and changing the proper contextual definitions. This passage is properly translated but it just bothers you to no end that God will eventually have mercy on all. You have no idea of the spiritual signifigance of any scripture and you really need to pray about that. You believe that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a picture of heaven and hell which it is not but that does not matter to you because you are content to remain in your deception arguing for it no matter what you have to do.
The Point is your rattling about words with no wisdom!
You arguing about a word that’s not in the text!
Then purport that you know what this text is talking about!
Your scholarly deeds have betrayed you!
Maybe it time to just read the Bible for season without commentary!
Nothing wrong with just listening to God’s Word without comment!
I will never profess myself to be wise because I am not. God has given me knowledge and I am attempting to grow in that and my conversations with you have just caused me to fail in that I have rendered evil for evil with you as we sling mud back and forth and I do know better. Furthermore I do know what the text it talking about. It is you who does not. You believe in what you want to believe. Thats your business. Especially when its a twisted version of the word of God.
God bless, Dave
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…Wow, after reading your whole post you contradict your own opening defense. You say here that you never said this and then you say in your next statement "The word creation “ktisis” includes everything that created seen and unseen!

Let me put it another way for those that are drawn from the breasts!

What God has created containseverything of His “ktisis” creation whether seen or unseen!

Not to imply that every time you see the word creation, that you should misconstrue it to mean that every last atom and molecule has to be in view!

But for you who seem to strain at a gnat!

I’ll say it again!

Just because God talks about His {creation “ktisis”} that doesn’t mean He has to always included Humanity.".

The point is very clear the key word to notice is when God TALKS about His creation.


truth101 said…If creation includes everything that is created and seen by your own admition then how can you follow this with "however"? This word "ktisis" really does cover everything in creation

Let’s make it more clear for the unskilled!

If God has created it then it’s part of His “ktisis” creation!
If God didn’t created it then it’s not part of His “ktisis”creation!



However, Just because God mentions His {creation “ktisis”} that doesn’t mean He has to always included Humanity.".

Heb. 9:11
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; "ktisis"

Is God mentioning things that were part His creation “ktisis” ?
Yes!
Building material that came from His “ktisis” creation, They are being mention in this text!
These Building materials came from the “ktisis” creation that God created!


Is God talking about His creation?

YES!

Is Humanity in view?

NO!

You inept methods you use to study the Bible, again proves that you are a workman that is to be ashamed!

At least we are making progress on three issues
1.Your “ktisis always refers to flesh” theory has been abandon!
Once again your theory is worthless!

2.Your “your cannot apply creation to Rom.” theory in no longer viable!

truth101 said…Another false claim not to mention deceiptful misrepresentation of what I said. Although upon firther investigation of these passages it would appear that the whole passage should contain the word "creature" including verse 22 because it is people who are in view here.

Well we have seen your incompetent efforts that, has lead to your bewilderment!
Your groping through the Bible has caused greater darkness to come forth your lips!

truth101 said…Not to mention I noticed that you removed the word "they" out of my quote in my very last post.. How very decieptful of you. I guess you thought by removing the word "they" you could remove the thought of humans being in focus here. Very subtle and deceiptful.

See how your groping in darkness make you sound like a staggering drunkard!
Because of your anger you were quick to try to find a twig in my eye, but forgot to remove the log that was blinding you from seeing “they” was in italics, (not part of the original text).

My faithfulness to the text is render as evil in your eyes! Isa. 5:20
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
 

bibleonly

Member
CONTINUED...

The deception is that methodology it continues to deceive you!



The Greek word “ktisis” creations (Is what was created).

Ktisis is from the Greek word “ktizo” to create or make from the Creator.

The derivation (etymology) of the Greek word “ktisis” has been show.

Your etymology theory has been discredited!

Once again staining at gnats to no avail!


truth101 said…You have discredited nothing at all. Your whole theory is based on a false premise to begin with and you know this is true since you found it nescessary to delete a portionof scripture in order to further your deciptful theory of eternal torment.

You have been discredited, your whole theory is based of a false premise to begin with and you know this is true since you found it necessary to add “they” to the text in order to further your ignorant theory of pugutory!

Your own mouth condemns you!

truth101 said…Furthermore, going back to your removal of the word "they", did you not ever read at the end of revelation, "if any man" add to the word or remove from the word their is a consequence to it?

Furthermore, going back to your addition of the word “they”did you not ever read at the end of revelation, "if any man" add to the word or remove from the word their is a consequence to it?
Rev. 22:18
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

The plagues are to be under the curse of God: to be under God curse, carry with it eternal damnation.

Maybe that why you ignore the Truth of eternal punishment for one’s hatred of God!
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…Well there it is. You take a Hebrew word which has a different definition range than the Greek word in question and to further your exposed heresy you use a hebrew word speaking in past tense which is also an adjective and not a noun as "ktisis" is. "creature", "creation" are nouns. They are things (physical universe, all humanity, etc) created. You take an adjective speaking in past tence and contrast it with a noun. "created" is an adjective and "creation" is a noun. Even if it was possible to compare the definitions of a Hebrew word with a Greek word you cannot contrast an adjective to a noun and think they are synonymous. This is just absolutely ridiculous.

Your grammatical mumbo-gumbo, has only confused you!
Your Pride keeps you from missing the point!
The point is not whether the words are Hebrew or Greek!
The point is not whether the words are nouns or adjectives!
The point is not whether words imply past tense, present tense or future tense!

The Point is When God TALKS about His creation!

Whether the words are Hebrew or Greek!
Whether the words are nouns or adjectives!
Whether words imply past tense, present tense or future tense!

Does He always include Humanity.?


Gen. 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Is God talking about His creation?

YES!

Is Humanity in view?

NO!


Your grammatical gibberish is a ploy to confuse the issues!


You have come to the Bible with your grammatical gobbledegook ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth!

2Tim. 3:7
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.


2Peter 1:1616 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.







truth101 said…I just didn't notice that you deleted the word "they" from your quote of my post. I quote directly from my online bible which was pasted on my post and you quoted it and removed the word "they".

You didn’t notice it because of that big log that was stuck in your eye.

truth101 said… Don't get me wrong, I understand fully why you did that. It blows your eternal torment docrine out of the bible not to mention the rest of this theology you carry which is not scriptural.

Now we fully understand why you added “they”. It blows your ignorant purgatory theory out of the bible not to mention the rest of this theology you carry which is not scriptural.
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…Your removal of the word "they" in Romans 8:23 is a blatent misuse of Gods word. It was a desperate attempt to save all you have to hang on to this eternal torment doctrine.

Your adding of the word “they”, in Romans 8:23 is a blatant misuse of God’s Word.
It was a desperate attempt to save all you have to hang on to this ignorant purgatory theory!

So then since the word “they” isn’t in the original text!

All of your Judgments that you judge with has judge yourself.
Matt. 7:1
1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again



truth101 said…You have attempted to establish a limited definition of a Greek noun using a Hebrew adjective as a contrasting synonym which the grammar police would immediately imprison you for.

Your grammatical drivel was a scheme to evade the real question?
When God talks about His creation, Does He always include Humanity.?

Your attempt to eliminate humanity from a passage which is speaking of all of creation especialy humanity since "THEY" are the ones contrasted with "but we also who have the first fruits of the spirit" has been obliterated.

Your shoddy research again is proof that you should repent from your desire to teach, since you workmanship is a disgrace and should be abandoned. 1Tim. 1:7
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

“they” is in italics, (meaning it not in the original text)!

Heb. 5:12
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.


You continue to prove with your mishandling of the Word, that the Lord has not called you to teach!
But in your Arrogance, you will continue to do so!
Jer. 23:21
21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…Really? Our translators have put the word "they" in there in the first place and for good cause because they (the translators) also realized that these verses are refering to people. "they" clarifies 'WHO' is being refered to, not 'WHAT' is not being refered to.

Shall worthless reasoning have an end?

They put it in, and made every one aware that they inserted the word “they”.

No matter how hard you look in the original text it will not appear!

The words that are in italic are not found in the original manuscripts!

They are not part of God's Word, so they are not to be used for any purpose!

If you had been weaned, you should have known this first lesson.



But since you can’t read Greek, you now strain at gnats (grasp at the air) you grasp at words that aren’t in the original text.




Romans 8:23
23 And not only, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Here's the Greek, The Bible in the original text doesn't offer you any help!

“ou monon de alla kai autos ho aparche ho pneuma echo hemeis kai autos en apekdechomai ho apolutrosis ho soma hemon”

“ou monon”
there's not a hint of “they”

Your only plea, instead of admitting your err, YouCall the translators to rescue you from your shame!

LET GOD's WORD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR!
 

Truth101

Member
Bibleonly, You have less scholarship than a sunday school kid. You have no idea what you are talking about. You say one thing and then contradict it in the next sentence. You are implying that God did not created most of Humanity. If the WHOLE creation is in view then Humanity is included. You say that it is not. You say let Gods word be true but really you should be saying "let bibleonlys words be true". You need to learn to listen and learn.

I do not even have to reply to your posts quote by quote because you have already exposed your inability to understand on your own and refuse to hear from anyone els on the matter. You want to believe that all of humanity is not included in all of creation you go ahead and believe that. As for me I will take my pearls and no longer cast them before the swine
All you have done is trample the word of God until you have rendered it completely useless.

I am unsubscribing to this thread and I will open up another discussion surrounding this ridiculous claim that all of creation does not include all of humanity you are so confused about.

I will not sit here slinging mud back and forth at each other because it is wrong.

I am unsubscribing from this thread to insure I do not engage in talks with you which render the Cross of Christ to none effect and the word of God in its entirety completely useless.

God bless you and give you HIS truth and rid you of your false docrines and idols of the heart.

Dave
 

Truth101

Member
Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city.
 

bibleonly

Member
This is the Third time that you have quoted. Mark.6:11
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

It say to depart, But your Pride keep you coming back!

How can one truly trust a man that is not obedient to the scriptures he quotes?

You can’t trust such a man!

Your have shown by your mishandling of the Word and by your disobedience to the Word, that you are not to be trusted!
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…If the WHOLE creation is in view then Humanity is included.

Nowhere did I say IF the WHOLE creation
is in view then Humanity is include.


What God has created contains
everything of His “ktisis” creation whether seen or unseen!

Not to imply that every time that God usesthe word creation in a sentence, that you should misconstrue it to mean that every last atom and molecule has to be in view!

Your false witness is just another evidence your fleshy nature!


Just because God talks about His {creation “ktisis”} that doesn’t mean He has to always included Humanity when using the word “ktisis
".


The key word to notice is when God TALKS about His creation.


If God has created it then it’s part of His “ktisis” creation!


If God didn’t created it then it’s not part of His “ktisis”creation!



However, Just because God mentions His {creation “ktisis”} that doesn’t mean He has to always included Humanity when using the word “ktisis
".

Heb. 9:11
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; "ktisis"

Is God mentioning things that were part His creation “ktisis” ?
Yes!
Building material that came from His “ktisis” creation, They are being mention in this text!
These Building materials came from the “ktisis” creation that God created!
Is God talking about His creation?
YES!
Is Humanity in view?

NO!




truth101 said…
I do not even have to reply to your posts quote by quote


There’s no reply, because you can’t find something that doesn’t exist!

You can’t find the mention of humanity in "ktisis", Heb. 9:11
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; "ktisis"

You can’t find the italicize word “they” in the original text! Romans 8:23
23 And not only, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

If you are true to the Word, then Your mouth has been stopped by scripture proof!
Romans 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Your mouth has been stopped by the Word of this text! Heb. 9:11
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; "ktisis"
You can’t find the mention of humanity in "ktisis" in this text!

Your mouth has been stopped by the Word of this text!

However, you have not become guilty before God!
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…You need to learn to listen and learn.

From an unruly and vain talker!

From a deceiver!

From a man that uses italicize words as the Word of God, to save face!

I think not!

The scriptures say’s to rebuke sharply!

Titus 1:12-14
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Holding fast the faithful word, (not a ITALICIZE word)

10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth








truth101 said…I am unsubscribing to this thread and I will open up another discussion surrounding this ridiculous claim that all of creation does not include all of humanity you are so confused about.

Even in your last breathe of this tread you craftily insert the word all, in a final attempt to deceive.

I said "Just because God talks about His {creation “ktisis”} that doesn’t mean He has to always included Humanity when.using the word "ktsis".

This doesn't mean that all of creation doesn't include all of humanity!

This is your style of subtilty, add words to sentences that aren’t there!
 

bibleonly

Member
truth101 said…As for me I will take my pearls and no longer cast them before the swine

The only thing that you are taking with you is a bag that contains thirty pieces of silver!

truth101 said…I will not sit here slinging mud back and forth at each other because it is wrong.
truth 101 said… It is obvious your doctrine is not only a malicious one toward the character of God but also to the lost who look to those who appear to hold the truth for answers.
truth 101 said… You come along with your malicious, contentious, hateful, accusations toward your fellow man.

The only hate that is brewing was found in your own heart

truth 101 said… I find myself giving in to my flesh everytime I talk to you because you are trying on my patience

The hate that you perceive is coming from your heart, it's whats in your own heart that is continually expressing these feeling!

Your own mouth has condemn you!

Gal. 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the fleshare manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

You have concluded that you are giving in to these works.

You have said, you find yourself “giving in to the flesh”!

And then confessed that you lack patience because of a debate, again out of your own mouth you say you lack the fruits of the Spirit. Gal. 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Because you have approach this debate with hatred in your heart, you assume that I am like you.

Your confession is from your heart, it has come out of your own mind how you feel about this debate.

You are a neophyte that has been lifted up with pride.

Your hatred against me doesn’t affect me, that is your sin!

This is a debate; I am only refuting the errors of your words as it pertains to the scriptures.

truth 101 said… Do you believe that this is the spirit in which God commands we approach not only the world but also our enemies?

My argument is with the words of your false doctrines!

James 5:19
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


I have been attacking the lie that you are proliferating as truth in the name of Christ!.

There’s still hope for you to come to the knowledge of the truth!

Your Eternal soul is at sake!
 

bibleonly

Member
NOW, we can continue to explore the Truth behind this question!

Eternal Hell, Scripture or ignorant theory?

The question can now be re-phrased as:

Eternal Hell, Scripture or Purgatory, ignorant theory?


The theory of Purgatory is the underlying support of the idea that there is no Eternal consequence for the retribution for sins.

Upon their hypothesis, they have ignorantly concluded that every single individual that has ever lived or will live in the future will eventual become purified.

So, we must search the scriptures to see if such a doctrine can be found to support such a notion!


First, we must determine what is meant by the word Purgatory, since this word is not found in the scriptures.

The definition that has been used to describe their theory is in two parts:

FIRST PART:

· A condition, state or place of temporary PUNISHMENT for one’s own sins.

To punish is chiefly to inflict penalty or pain as retribution for misdeeds.

· A condition, state or place of temporary SUFFERING for one’s own sins.

1. Suffering includes Torture.
2. Suffering includes Torment
3. Suffering includes Pain.
4. Suffering includes Anguish.
5. Suffering includes Agony.
6. Suffering includes Affliction.


SECOND PART:

· A condition, state or place of temporary serving to atonement for one’s own sins.
· A condition, state or place that is temporary to make amends for one’s own sins.
· A condition, state or place that is temporary serving to cleanse one’s own sins.
· A condition, state or place that is temporary serving to purify one’s own sins.
· A condition, state or place that is temporary serving to pay for one’s own sins.


Five Things Stick Out:

1. A condition, state or place that is TEMPORARY serving to purge one’s own sins
2. A condition, state or place that is temporary serving to PURGE one’s own sins
3. A condition, state or place that is temporary serving to purge ONE’S OWN SINS!
4. A condition, state or place of temporary PUNISHMENT for one’s own sin!
5. A condition, state or place of temporary SUFFERING for one’s own sins!


Which Can Be Summed Up In the Following Definition of Temporary Hell:

A condition, state or place of PUNISHMENT & SUFFERING that is TEMPORARY serving
to PURGE ONE’S OWN SINS!

The question can also be re-phrased as:

Eternal Hell, Scripture or Temporary Hell, ignorant theory?

From their definition, we have discovered two points of contention!

The first argument, is not if there is a Hell, the argument is if it’s Eternal or Temporal?
We will take a look at their ploy to confuse the issues.

Please remember that this definition is from their own Hypothesis, and not found in the scriptures, its merely conjecture, as we will discover from the scriptures when we take a look at the Second argument of their definition!

The Second part of the theory of Purgatory is the question, of purging of one’s own sins!

The Second argument is if man’s purging will satisfied the payment for sins!

Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 

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Eternal Hell, Scripture or Temporary Hell, ignorant theory?




The first argument, is not if there is a Hell, the argument is if it’s Eternal or Temporal?
We will take a look at their ploy to confuse the issues.

The first thing to notice in this theory is the pretense of having a concern for the Character of God.

truth101said…your statement…shows your inability to understand…the character of God.
truth101said….How can you continue to slander the character of God
truth101said:… but if He… sends them to be tormented forever and ever and ever than He is unjustified in His actions… this view horribly disfiguresHis character.
truth101said:… quote by A. E. Knoch Jonah went through the streets of Nineveh, crying, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown!" God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way, and God repented concerning the evil that He said He would do unto them, and He did it not (Jonah 3). What did Jonah do? Was he not pleased at the success of his mission? Did he not glory in the character of his God? Alas! He was like the majority of the Lord's people today. Like Jonah, they imagined that God has a streak of hate in His character, and that He wanted to destroy Nineveh to give it exercise. He had an object, though, in threatening its destruction. Now that they repented and the object was attained, why should He belieHis character and destroy them from sheer vindictiveness?


The first ploy is to insinuate that they have a higher regard for the Character of God than those that oppose their theory!

However, as it pertains to God’s punishment, there view is no different than those that hold Eternal Punishment!

The main difference is the length of time this punishment will continue!

truth101said:…The following is a quote from the book "Christ Triumphent" by Thomas Allin “I have no desire to ignore "the Terrors of the Lord"

To instill intense fear in man’s heart is not out of the Character of God!
To display injurious destruction on men; is not out of the Character of God!
In fact this has become very recognizable behavior, that Thomas Allin say’s“ I have no desire to ignore "


truth101said:…My intentions are not to eliminate the judgment of God or His wrath.

They recognize one of God’s dispositions can display wrath!
To reveal vengeance as the consequence of anger is not out of the Character of God!

CONTINUE…
 

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Eternal Hell, Scripture or Temporary Hell, ignorant theory?
CONTINUED…


truth101said:…BUT, BUT, BUT, HE SHALL BE SAVED through the LAKE OF FIRE(not literal physical fire GOD IS THE CONSUMING FIRE)

So it’s not out of Character of God to cast men into the LAKE OF FIRE!

Whether you are devoured by the flame of God’s wrath or placed in a condition or state to experience this vengeance is irrelevant to the question of the Character of God!

To say that the fire is not literal but it’s God Himself consuming them with His Righteous, Just, and Holy present doesn’t detract from the fact that God’s indignation is in view.

Look at the sun with your eyes open, you’ll go blind and figuratively “they’ll burn right out of your sockets”!

What would happen if you came within a million miles of the sun’s ball of fire?

What then will happen when you come into the hands of God who is a Consuming Fire?



truth101said:…Yes it is very simple. The judgment is a trial by fire.

It must then be in the Character of God to inflict SUFFERING.

· Suffering includes Torture.
· Suffering includes Torment
· Suffering includes Pain.
· Suffering includes Anguish.
· Suffering includes Agony.

truth101said:…These people will suffer very much


They then do declare then that the wrath of God is in harmony of His Character!

truth101said:…Unbelievers will experience the indignation of God

Then God’s wrath can be aroused by wickedness and this agrees with the Character of his behavior.


truth101said:…There is no doubt this time is in anguish but the question is, "Is hell a place of anguish FOREVER AND EVER?".

There is no doubt that the Character of God includes having men suffer excruciating pain!

Men will be agonizing in torment, which they say that “There is no doubt”!


truth101said:…Yes it is very frightful and should be even without your doctrine of eternal destruction.
truth101said:…I have not omitted the terrors of the Lord.

How can they omit the terrors of the Lord, since they are in Harmony with His Character!

truth101said:…We are aware of the terrors of the Lord

truth101said:…The terrors of the Lord are to be fear

So they are aware that this is in align with God’s Character!
truth101said:…Their day in judgment and punishment will come.

truth101said:…God's wrath is still something to be feared even though it will not continue for eternity

One’s Character is known by one’s Behavior!
One’s Character is known by one’s Reputation!
One’s Character is known by one’s Principles!
One’s Character is known by one’s Traits!
One’s Character is known by the distinctive qualities that make one recognizable!

It is evident that the God who is LOVE is also the God who JUDGES!

JUDGMENT then is not out of harmony with God’s Character!

CONTINUE….
 

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Eternal Hell, Scripture or Temporary Hell, ignorant theory?
CONTINUED…


In fact, before a sinner can know the Love of God, God reveals to them His displeasure!

Romans 4:15
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Why?
Out of the Love, God warns of the impending Punishment and Suffering awaiting mankind who is still under the Wrath of God that has no way of escaping, except they flee to Christ!

Jonah 3:4
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown
Jonah preaching was not, “God Loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life”!

God gave Jonah a different message!

That message was enough to cause that whole city to repent!

That message was what awoke them to their true relationship to God!

That message declared that it was God, who was about to destroy them!

That message caused them to know that their sins are against God!
Jonah 3:9
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?


That message caused them to come to God who they sinned against, even if it meant that God wouldn’t turn from His fierce wrath!

That message didn’t deceive them into inaction, that the message of “God Loves you as you are” does!

They came to God, fully acknowledging that they were sinners, deserving no matter what was in store for them!

That message brought no argument from them!

There were no theological debates, whether God’s anger was Temporal or Eternal!

They weren’t considering if God Loved the whole world or just some!

All they knew was that in forty days God was going to destroy them!

That message made them stand exposed of their sins in front of God who is the JUDGE!

That message made stand guilty and await the sentencing for their sin!
Romans 3:19
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Knowing whatever God decided to do, whether to save or to destroy, it was in God’s hand.

That Message caused them to Fear God, and yet Trust in God!
 

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Temporary Hell, ignorant theory?

What message is hidden behind their pious care to uphold only one aspect of God’s Character namely, God is Love and began to formulate a message that declares
“ All Will Come To Salvation In The End”?


If This Message Is Correct: ------------ All Will Come to Salvation In The End!

· Then there is no accountability for sin and It doesn’t matter if we sin!

Heb. 10:26
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

But, the scriptures say, There is no other salvation in any other!
Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.



If This Message Is Correct: ------------ All Will Come to Salvation In The End!
truth101…All others will be purified by fire and then they will believe but not until the kingdoms is coming to its end.
  • Give man another way to forsake the only way to make sacrifice for sin!
But, the scriptures say, If we sin willfully, after neglecting the only way of Salvation in Christ, there is no other sacrifice for sins.

Heb. 2:3
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


There will be nothing else to look forward to but the terrible expectation of God’s judgment and the raging fire that will devour His enemies.


If This Message Is Correct:------------ All Will Come to Salvation In The End!
truth101…It was not His sacrifice that washes away sins, it is in His resurrection that all sin is washed away.

· Then the shedding of Christ blood sacrifice didn’t pardon man’s sin.

Matt. 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

God forgave the sin’s of His people, all of the sins were washed, purged, and cleansed from all their sins.

The resurrection is the evidence that Christ the Lamb, His sacrifice was acceptable to God for the forgiveness of the sins of His people.
1Cor. 15:17
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; you are yet in your sins.
The blood has wash, cleansed and purged sin by Christ’s sacrifice and the resurrection is the proof Christ abolished the demand of the Law, (the wages of sin) eternal death has longer any dominion, power over His people.

Eph. 2:13-15
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Peace with God, because Christ sacrifice wash our sin away with his blood experiencing the second death, which is being in the Lake of Fire, (eternal damnation), for His people so making peace on our behalf.

CONTINUE…
 
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