Dealing With Biblical Contradictions

nPeace said:

One who looks for issues in the Bible can certainly find, many, but the many they find, may only be 1% of all they find.
Likewise, the seeming contradictions they find, may not be contradictions at all, but misunderstandings in most cases - about 99.6%.

Click to expand...

Perhaps misunderstanding is behind the contradictions, or maybe difference of opinion is behind them, but in any case they still stand as contradictions.

However, to be fair, let's say they are contradictions, as one who do not deny that a few copyist errors have crept into the translations of the Bible, I do not deny them, but view them as so insignificant in comparison to the harmonious, and error free, beneficial part of the Bible.

Click to expand...

Thank you for telling us where you stand. However, I just question how you can tell what else in the Bible is error free. If the Bible is capable of getting stuff wrong in some places---at least one of the contradictions has to be wrong---what's preventing it from getting from getting other things wrong? Those things that have no contradiction by which one could correct them? All of which leaves everything in the Bible suspect, unless that is, one just ignores the fallibility of the Bible and goes on to believe whatever one needs to. Something I believe is what all Christians do anyway. Damn the contradictions, full steam ahead.

.

.

W3bcrowf3r said:

They are humans as well. Why dont you try to learn Greek and Hebrew and see how hard it is to make a perfect translation?

Click to expand...

I don't care to, but assume you have; steeping yourself in ancient Greek and Hebrew to come up with the correct translation. Correcting all the mistakes that now crop up in the other translations. Your translation being the one other scholars were never capable of putting together. Having done all this work I can only suggest putting it to use and publishing the "true" translation of the Bible. Of course if you've never done any such steeping how would you know the modern translations got it wrong. You wouldn't.


.

KenS said:

You make absolutely no sense... but that's OK. We are a free country and not believing in God is a freedom, however much it will violate reality.

Click to expand...

Im betting you can not provide valid evidence of the reality of god or gods.

Subjective and objective are well defined words. Changing those definitions to suite personal sensibilities does cause confusion.

Skwim said:

Perhaps misunderstanding is behind the contradictions, or maybe difference of opinion is behind them, but in any case they still stand as contradictions.


Thank you for telling us where you stand. However, I just question how you can tell what else in the Bible is error free. If the Bible is capable of getting stuff wrong in some places---at least one of the contradictions has to be wrong---what's preventing it from getting from getting other things wrong? Those things that have no contradiction by which one could correct them? All of which leaves everything in the Bible suspect, unless that is, one just ignores the fallibility of the Bible and goes on to believe whatever one needs to. Something I believe is what all Christians do anyway. Damn the contradictions, full steam ahead.

.

.

Click to expand...

It's like your motor car.
If you use your motor car, after a while, you become familiar with it.
You know how it runs - when it's working fine, and when it's not.
You get to know its tune. You may even become familiar with changing the oil, the battery, and based on how interested you are in your car, you might even become familiar with other intricate parts.
Overall though if it works, you don't complain.

On the other hand, you could complain, and start picking at this, picking at that, complaining about wanting a better steering, and on and on. Your eye is so focused on complaining, you keep sending it to the garage to be modified.
You therefore don't know whether the car really worked fine before or not. Or... maybe it just doesn't work the way you want it to work.

Those who use the Bible as it was designed to be used, become familiar with it, and they get to experience it power when they "take it for a spin".
They see no need to complain because they like the design, and they realize it works fine - tested and proven. Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17; Isaiah 48:17, 18
They fell smart giving it mileage every day.

W3bcrowf3r said:

Never trust an interpretation or someone else.

NIV isn't a good translation. And is based on the Nestle Aland instead of the Greek New Testament that can be found in the Greek Church.

Click to expand...

I know that NIV isnt I deal but it was/is familiar. My assumption which I have found is 90% effective is that at the level of story, an English translation is sufficient. I am open to insights regarding the original language in specific cases in the text.

nPeace said:

It's like your motor car.
If you use your motor car, after a while, you become familiar with it.
You know how it runs - when it's working fine, and when it's not.
You get to know its tune. You may even become familiar with changing the oil, the battery, and based on how interested you are in your car, you might even become familiar with other intricate parts.
Overall though if it works, you don't complain.

Click to expand...

Not like my motor car at all. It doesn't run simply because I need it to, but because all its parts work together. For instance, all its spark plug wires go exactly where they have to. If they go to the wrong plugs the car isn't going to work just because I have faith it will.

On the other hand, you could complain, and start picking at this, picking at that, complaining about wanting a better steering, and on and on. Your eye is so focused on complaining, you keep sending it to the garage to be modified.
You therefore don't know whether the car really worked fine before or not. Or... maybe it just doesn't work the way you want it to work.

Click to expand...

A fact is a fact, and pretending that it isn't and dismissing this "isn't" as having no impact, is living in a fool's world. The fact that the Bible is fallible is no small point. Realistically, I feel the trust factor should drop to near zero rather than remaining high based on need.

Those who use the Bible as it was designed to be used, become familiar with it, and they get to experience it power when they "take it for a spin".

Click to expand...

Absolutely they do. It's just that this "spin" is based on a need supported by a faith that purposely ignores all the stop signs.

.

Skwim said:

Not like my motor car at all. It doesn't run simply because I need it to, but because all its parts work together. For instance, all its spark plug wires go exactly where they have to. If they go to the wrong plugs the car isn't going to work just because I have faith they will.


A fact is a fact, and pretending that it isn't and dismissing this "isn't" as having no impact, is living in a fool's world. The fact that the Bible is fallible is no small point. Realistically, I feel the trust factor should drop to near zero rather than remaining high based on need.


Absolutely they do. It's just that this "spin" is based on a need supported by a faith that purposely ignores all the stop signs.

.

Click to expand...

Remember, you are the one seeing things as problems.
For example, others have already shown you where people create problems that are not there simply because of how they read it, but does that stop the complaining? No it doesn't.
So the car is apparently in the garage, for no good reason, but simply because of fault finders, who won't stop complaining because they hate the car.
As I already said, the errors are so insignificantly minute, as to be invisible.

nPeace said:

Remember, you are the one seeing things as problems.
For example, others have already shown you where people create problems that are not there simply because of how they read it, but does that stop the complaining? No it doesn't.

Click to expand...

And there are many who don't see things as problems (they ignore them) because it would disrupt their faith. But so be it.

So the car is apparently in the garage, for no good reason, but simply because of fault finders, who won't stop complaining because they hate the car.

Click to expand...

Perhaps; although, it's a bit self serving to describe such revealers of the the truth as complaining fault finders when all they're trying to do is enlighten the self deluded. Wouldn't you want to be told when you're going astray? Apparently not. You'd rather live the illusion,

As I already said, the errors are so insignificantly minute, as to be invisible.

Click to expand...

Perhaps, but the implication is enormous. The Bible is fallible. And could be significantly fallible in very important issues.

But it's your choice to put the welfare of your afterlife in a book that's "capable of making a mistake."


.

Skwim said:

Those things that have no contradiction by which one could correct them? All of which leaves everything in the Bible suspect, unless that is, one just ignores the fallibility of the Bible and goes on to believe whatever one needs to. Something I believe is what all Christians do anyway. Damn the contradictions, full steam ahead.

Click to expand...

And yet, you really haven't proved them a contradiction. Your interpretation says it is a contradiction but answers are available! But if you want it to be a contradiction, it will suffice for you.

However, Jesus still came, still died, still paid for our sins, still resurrected, is still on the throne and is still coming back. IMHO.

I'm only going to address one of your comments because, frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of it all. My main concern was how Christians dealt with the contradictions.

Faithofchristian said:

First of all, your first mistake is, that in
2 Samuel 24:9 there are 800,000 and not as you say 8,000.

Click to expand...

Yeah that is a bad typo. Even my 4th grade self would have caught that one.

As for 1 Chronicles 21:5, a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand.
Which makes that to be 300.000

Note that a Score is 60,
Threescore is 180.
Judah was 400 an Threescore = 580
and 10 thousand equals 10,580
As to where or how you come by the numbers you have is not right.

Click to expand...

From the Amplified Bible:
Then Joab gave the total of the census of the people to David. And all Israel were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword; and in Judah 470,000 men who drew the sword.

From the New International Reader's Version
Joab reported to David how many fighting men he had counted. In the whole land of Israel there were 1,100,000 men who could use their swords well. That included 470,000 men in Judah.

From the International Standard Version
to report the total population count to David. Throughout all of Israel there were 1,100,000 men trained for war. In Judah there were 470,000 men trained for war.

From the Orthodox Jewish Bible
And Yoav gave up the sum of the number of HaAm unto Dovid. And kol Yisroel were 1,100,000 ish that drew cherev; and Yehudah was 470,000 ish that drew cherev.

From the Tree of Life Version
The total population figure which he gave came to 1,100,000 men of military age in Israel and 470,000 in Judah.

From the English Standard Version
And Joab gave the sum of the numbering of the people to David. In all Israel there were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword, and in Judah 470,000 who drew the sword.

etc.
etc.
etc.

KenS said:

And yet, you really haven't proved them a contradiction.

Click to expand...

If you don't think

and
contradict each other then I honestly believe you have no idea what a contradiction is.
.

Skwim said:

And there are many who don't see things as problems (they ignore them) because it would disrupt their faith. But so be it.

Click to expand...

Me not. I doubt you can even verify that, unless someone admitted it to you, so I hear you.

Skwim said:

Perhaps; although, it's a bit self serving to describe such revealers of the the truth as complaining fault finders when all they're trying to do is enlighten the self deluded. Wouldn't you want to be told when you're going astray? Apparently not. You'd rather live the illusion,

Click to expand...

"Revealers of the truth". Ha Ha. Good one.
Hey look, you made another statement you can't verify. I hear you.

Skwim said:

Perhaps, but the implication is enormous. The Bible is fallible. And could be significantly fallible in very important issues.

fallible
adjective
fal·li·ble | \ˈfa-lə-bəl
1 : liable to be erroneous a fallible generalization
2 : capable of making a mistake
​

But it's your choice to put the welfare of your afterlife in a book that's "capable of making a mistake."

.

Click to expand...

Thank you. You have yours, and I have mine.

Skwim said:

If you don't think

2 Samuel 24:9
9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
​

and

1 Chronicles 21:5
5 And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.
​

contradict each other then I honestly believe you have no idea what a contradiction is.
.

Click to expand...

Hmmmm.... I already answered that one. Did you not see it because you want it to be wrong?

sealchan said:

I know that NIV isnt I deal but it was/is familiar. My assumption which I have found is 90% effective is that at the level of story, an English translation is sufficient. I am open to insights regarding the original language in specific cases in the text.

Click to expand...

I believe the Greek New Testament in the Greek Church is the most original we have. Though i disagree with some doctrines they teach in their Church. That doesn't mean that i should reject 'their' Text. The Text was always copied and spread by such denominations, look at them, and the Pharisees in Judaism etc. they were the ones who copied the originals. Though they were teaching other things, because they uphold false doctrines besides Scripture.

Skwim said:

I just finished watching a video critiquing another video by Kyle Butts who argues that the Bible has no contradictions. At the end of the video I was watching its host observed that Butt's audience is fine with his contention because Butts, having settled the issue in their minds "don't want to look to closely at the Bible anyway." This got me thinking about all the contradictions I've come across in the Bible . Contradictions such as

There were many languages before the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 10:5
5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.​

There was only one language before the Tower of Babel.

Genesis 11:1
11 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.​

**********************************
8,000 and 500,000 men

2 Samuel 24:9
9 And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.​

1,100,000 and 470,000

1 Chronicles 21:5
5 And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword.​

***********************************
Judas throws the money away, and dies by hanging himself

Matthew 27:5
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.​

Judas buys a field with the money, and dies by falling down.

Act 1:18
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.​

***********************************
Jesse has seven sons

1 Chronicles 2:13-15
13 And Jesse begat his firstborn Eliab, and Abinadab the second, and Shimma the third,14 Nethaneel the fourth, Raddai the fifth,15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh:​

Jesse has eight sons

1 Samuel 17:12
12 Now David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehemjudah, whose name was Jesse; and he had eight sons: and the man went among men for an old man in the days of Saul.​

and wondered how Christians here on RF handle Bible contradictions. Do they deny them, ignore them, accept them but dismiss them as irrelevant, or wring out an explanation for them all? So, to all the Christians on board here, just what do you do with the contradictions in your Bible?

Just deny they exist and go on about your day.

Admit they exist, but totally ignore them

Accept them, but go on to dismiss them as irrelevant,

Wring out the best explanation you can, in effect rendering them non-contradictory.

Or_______________________________ .

.​

Click to expand...

An English translation of FIRST CHRONICLES 21:5 And Joab gave up the sum of the numbering of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and a hundred thousand men that drew sword; and Judah was four hundred three-score and ten thousand men that drew sword. 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin he did not number among them; for the king’s word was abominable to Joab.

If you just have read the verse next to it..

Guys if you study the Greek original you read that Acts 1:18 doesnt say that Judas bought it with those silver pieces!

Matthew 27:7 talks about how the Priest bought the land.
And Acts 1:18 talks about how Judas acquired that kind of death because of the unjustness.

Acts 1:18 doesnt even mention the silver or the word bought etc. at all!

Skwim said:

Your resolution to the hanging and falling contradiction is an old one, one I recall from my teens, and one which no doubt goes back hundreds of years. The contradiction was only included because it's in the same verse where a true contradiction does occur: Judas is said to have done two very different things with the money.
.

Click to expand...

I know i gave some posibilities already. But heres a article that builds on the point about the priests buying the field in judas name.

"The Jews (Matt. 27:7-10) - "And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel; 10 and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me."

Judas (Acts 1:18) - "Now this man acquired a field with the price of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out."

The Jews bought the field in Judas' name, on his behalf. It was with the money that had been given to him for his betrayal of Christ and was the same money he threw back at them. The Jews could not use the money since it was blood money and they bought the field in his name. This is why it says that Judas acquired the field.

It would be like me giving money to my daughter to buy an apple at the store. It could legitimately be said that I bought the apple since I gave her the money with which to purchase the fruit. Also, she is the one who actually purchased the apple. This idea is found in the Bible. For example, In John 19:1 it says, "Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged Him." But we know that it was not actually Pilate who did the scourging. Rather it was he who handed Jesus' over to the Roman soldiers to be scourged. They carried out his orders."

Who bought the Potter's Field, Judas or the Jews? | CARM.org

W3bcrowf3r said:

An English translation of FIRST CHRONICLES 21:5 And Joab gave up the sum of the numbering of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and a hundred thousand men that drew sword; and Judah was four hundred three-score and ten thousand men that drew sword. 21:6 But Levi and Benjamin he did not number among them; for the king’s word was abominable to Joab.

Click to expand...

You seem to be implying that the extra 300000 consisted of Benjamin and Levi, but Levi wouldn't have been counted in the million, they were the priests(Numbers 8:14). The same then can be surmised for Benjamin. They weren't included in the million either because they weren't counted as one of the ten tribes but with Judah(2 Samuel 19:43, 1 Kings 11:30-32, Joshua 18:28). In other words, just because those tribes weren't counted by Joab doesn't necessarily explain the difference in the numbers, since the million may have already accounted for that. It seems more reasonable then to attribute this difference to the age limit David instituted on his record of the census in 2 Samuel 24:9, that is, according to 1 Chronicles 27:23-24, which others also did(2 Chronicles 25:5). As far as the Judah number in the Chronicles, it would seem to exclude Benjamin, that is, according to the edict of Joab not to include Benjamin in the census(i.e. the 30000).

Skwim said:

I take it then that you'd put yourself in the "Accept them, but go on to dismiss them as irrelevant," category. Thank you.

.

Click to expand...

no no....

some things are really difficult
and this thread is aimed at typos and hearsay

the REALLY difficult contradictions are those opposing reality

walk on water?
raise the dead?
feed thousands with no provision on hand?

but I do rationalize

it's not the miracles of the Carpenter that are salvation

that would be the parables

Skwim said:

I'm only going to address one of your comments because, frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of it all. My main concern was how Christians dealt with the contradictions.


Yeah that is a bad typo.

Even my 4th grade self would have caught that one.



From the Amplified Bible:
Then Joab gave the total of the census of the people to David. And all Israel were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword; and in Judah 470,000 men who drew the sword.

From the New International Reader's Version
Joab reported to David how many fighting men he had counted. In the whole land of Israel there were 1,100,000 men who could use their swords well. That included 470,000 men in Judah.

From the International Standard Version
to report the total population count to David. Throughout all of Israel there were 1,100,000 men trained for war. In Judah there were 470,000 men trained for war.

From the Orthodox Jewish Bible
And Yoav gave up the sum of the number of HaAm unto Dovid. And kol Yisroel were 1,100,000 ish that drew cherev; and Yehudah was 470,000 ish that drew cherev.

From the Tree of Life Version
The total population figure which he gave came to 1,100,000 men of military age in Israel and 470,000 in Judah.

From the English Standard Version
And Joab gave the sum of the numbering of the people to David. In all Israel there were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword, and in Judah 470,000 who drew the sword.

etc.
etc.
etc.

Click to expand...

Further more, Jesse being mention of in
1 Samuel 17:12, didn't have 8 sons, that was Eph - rath - it, of
Beth - le - hem - ju- dah, that had 8 sons, not Jesse.
Before you go about saying how the bible has contradictions, maybe you should try and put things in their proper order of events.
Doesn't anyone bother to read, before they make accusations that the bible has contradictions.
For every contradiction that you gave, I showed your contradictions are false, there are no contradictions.