Again, you're arguing against a position LDS don't actually hold and I don't care.
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Islamic hadiths summary, read them all
- Thread starter Din28
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W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
I quoted from the original Book of Mormon. It says that Jesus is God.
I dont believe that. The original Quran and the New Testament do not teach such a thing.
Again, I don't care about your misunderstanding.
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
I quoted from the original Book of Mormon. It says that Jesus is God.
I dont believe that. The original Quran and the New Testament do not teach such a thing.
English reading isnt that hard. But you prefer a denomination instead what Truth is.
Um, what? I know it's some anti-Islam ramble but I can't make heads or tails of it. It mostly looks like Salafist crap being generalized to entire religion.
And you are misinterpreting what you read to be that Christ and the Father are the same person, which is not LDS beliefs. Skip the lecture to me on 'truth' when you don't care about getting your facts straight.
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
The Book of Mormon says that Christ is the Eternal Father. And it says that we should worship Jesus. It says that God is Christ. It says the Son is the Father.
I rather stick to what the source says instead of what people claim in name of it.
Even if the text didnt say that. I still wouldnt believe it since you people believe in two Gods since you see Jesus as God as well.
I know why you are misguided. You dont read the Text but listen to what people tell you to believe.
Else you would have seen that Joseph Smith is an Anti Christ and that the Book of Mormon is just a False Gospel.
You dont care.Your whole family is probably Mormon. You only care about what they think about you.
Stooping to more wild assumptions and person insults doesn't somehow fix the flaws of your initial argument or send the message that you actually care about Truth.
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
Dude, when are you going to stop?
You claim to know better and that i am misunderstanding.
But i am the one quoting Scripture.
You are just saying 'you are wrong, because my leaders are telling the truth'..
Lets stop this useless discussion. We are talking about an English book. It's 2018. I can read.
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the Father and the Son:
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son --
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son --
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the very Eternal Father:
The Book of Mormon - Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
The Book of Mormon - Alma 11:39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are;
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the Father and the Son:
The Book of Mormon - Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters. 3:15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus says 'i am the Father':
The Book of Mormon - Ether 4:12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me -- that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
Book of Mormon teaches to worship Jesus:
The Book of Mormon - 2 Nephi 25:29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
And many more such verses.
The New Testament, the Old Testament, the Quran etc. teach that there is one God. But you Mormons believe in three Gods, because you believe Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is 'God', and God is God, and want to tell people who don't use their brains that it's one God, but not the same person etc.
The book of Mormon is just a fabricated made by Joseph Smith based on the Trinitarian fabrication with an own twist to it. It's more radical then the trinitarians. The book of Mormon clearly states that Jesus is the Father and the Son and that they are God and that we should worship Jesus etc.
THE REAL GOSPEL:
Jesus says worship God alone:
An English translation of the Greek New Testament - Matthew 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, 'Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall express adoration to the Lord your God, and to him only shall you offer divine service.''
There is one God and Father of all, not two, or three:
An English translation of the Greek New Testament - Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and is us all.
I can see how ironic it is how you mormons use incorrect translations of the Bible to suit your book of Mormon doctrines. They can't even read Greek or Hebrew and are using wrong translations of the Bible to suit their book of Mormon.
That's how i knew that the Book of Mormon is just a false Gospel created by the anti Christ to deceive the people.
Here's what's going down:
You are reading text and interpreting it to mean X.
You spend your time arguing against position X.
But no one in this conversation believes X, because your interpreting things differently than LDS folks do. LDS instead believe Y.
LDS folks point out this out, and are ignored-- you state don't care.
You continue arguing against position X and "conclude" LDS beliefs are false because of position X. You also then flame some.
LDS person scratches their head and says "... but no one here believes X".
So, here's the options:
--- You can continue to argue against X and I'll continue not to care.
--- If you want talk about what I or someone else actually believes, we can do that. But that does require you to listen.
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the Father and the Son:
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son --
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son --
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
The Book of Mormon - Mosiah 15:5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the very Eternal Father:
The Book of Mormon - Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
The Book of Mormon - Alma 11:39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are;
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is the Father and the Son:
The Book of Mormon - Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters. 3:15 And never have I showed myself unto man whom I have created, for never has man believed in me as thou hast. Seest thou that ye are created after mine own image? Yea, even all men were created in the beginning after mine own image.
Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus says 'i am the Father':
The Book of Mormon - Ether 4:12 And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. I am the same that leadeth men to all good; he that will not believe my words will not believe me -- that I am; and he that will not believe me will not believe the Father who sent me. For behold, I am the Father, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.
Book of Mormon teaches to worship Jesus:
The Book of Mormon - 2 Nephi 25:29 And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind, and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise be cast out.
I dont believe in the Book of Mormon. Thank you for giving me the position to show that the Book of Mormon teaches that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Father.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
@W3bcrowf3r: You have proven well beyond a doubt that you are capable of posting the same verses from The Book of Mormon time after time after time. This post is not for you, by the way, because you have clearly indicated that you are not interested in understanding our interpretation of those verses. Other people following this thread may, however, actually desire to be informed on the subject. The following information is for them:
Is the Son of God the Eternal Father? Zeezrom sought to confuse the issue by asking, “Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
“And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
“And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name.” (Alma 11:38–40.)
The Book of Mormon makes it clear that although Jesus Christ is the Son of God, there are some ways in which he is our Father. In one way, he is the Father of the earth, since he created it under the Father’s direction. King Benjamin declared, for example, that the Savior “shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning.” (Mosiah 3:8; italics added.)
This is not new doctrine. Biblical prophets also testified that the Son was the Creator of the heaven and earth. John bore witness that “all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3.) Paul declared that by the Son “were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth.” (Col. 1:16.) But it is also clear that the Son acted as the Father’s agent; Paul wrote to the Ephesians of “God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.” (Eph. 3:9.)
Jesus Christ is the Father in another way as well. For those who accept the gospel, he becomes their Father by adoption and covenant in their new relationship with him. Abinadi alluded to this relationship when he spoke of the seed of Jesus—the prophets and “those who have hearkened unto their words.” (See Mosiah 15:10–13.) King Benjamin also made this relationship clear: “Because of the covenant which ye have made,” he told a group of repentant Nephites, “ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.” (Mosiah 5:7.) Thus, Jesus Christ becomes the Father of the righteous through adoption.
Jesus Christ is also the Father because the Eternal Father gave him authority to represent him. The resurrected Christ taught the Nephites that they should pray to the Father in his name because he and the Father are one. (See 3 Ne. 20:31, 35.) Jesus had also taught his disciples in Palestine that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30); yet he declared that “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and that “I am come in my Father’s name” (John 5:43). ~Source~
Here's another article on the same subject.
And another.
Is the Son of God the Eternal Father? Zeezrom sought to confuse the issue by asking, “Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
“And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
“And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name.” (Alma 11:38–40.)
The Book of Mormon makes it clear that although Jesus Christ is the Son of God, there are some ways in which he is our Father. In one way, he is the Father of the earth, since he created it under the Father’s direction. King Benjamin declared, for example, that the Savior “shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning.” (Mosiah 3:8; italics added.)
This is not new doctrine. Biblical prophets also testified that the Son was the Creator of the heaven and earth. John bore witness that “all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:3.) Paul declared that by the Son “were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth.” (Col. 1:16.) But it is also clear that the Son acted as the Father’s agent; Paul wrote to the Ephesians of “God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.” (Eph. 3:9.)
Jesus Christ is the Father in another way as well. For those who accept the gospel, he becomes their Father by adoption and covenant in their new relationship with him. Abinadi alluded to this relationship when he spoke of the seed of Jesus—the prophets and “those who have hearkened unto their words.” (See Mosiah 15:10–13.) King Benjamin also made this relationship clear: “Because of the covenant which ye have made,” he told a group of repentant Nephites, “ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.” (Mosiah 5:7.) Thus, Jesus Christ becomes the Father of the righteous through adoption.
Jesus Christ is also the Father because the Eternal Father gave him authority to represent him. The resurrected Christ taught the Nephites that they should pray to the Father in his name because he and the Father are one. (See 3 Ne. 20:31, 35.) Jesus had also taught his disciples in Palestine that “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30); yet he declared that “my Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and that “I am come in my Father’s name” (John 5:43). ~Source~
Here's another article on the same subject.
And another.
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W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
Blablabla. At the end...!!! You are posting quotes from the book. Now i can do something!
Alma 11:38-40 and Mosiah 3:8 are based on mistranslations from the Greek New Testament. And so is the doctrine of the Book of Mormon about Jesus as well. And that's how it shows that the Book of Mormon is false. And a false Gospel, created by an Anti Christ. It's the Anti Christ who says that 'He'/Jesus is God.
John 1:1 etc. is talking about God not about Jesus. But it says that the Logos is Divine because it's from God since God is Divine. Since God created everything with Hes Word, He says "Be" and it "Is". Just like He created Adam and Jesus, He said "Be" and it "Was".
Trinitarians love to abuse John 1. It's talking about God, not about Jesus.. God created Jesus, and you and me, and everything.
John 5:43, that doesn't mean Jesus is God? The Quran begings in 113 chapters with In the name of God, that doesn't mean Muhammad was God.
John 14:28, the Father is Greater then everything, so that doesn't say that Jesus is God either.
John 10:30, they are one in agreement. Just like Adam and Eve were one. Just like we are one with Christ if we follow him. That doesn't mean we are Christ. Or that Adam and Eve were one person...
Lets continue this discussion in Greek. Most translations are distorted anyways. It would be wise to learn the language of the Book you believe in. I don't want you to quote what your religious leaders say and what the sectarian translators translated.
Eph 3:9 is talking about God who is the Creator of All to Enlighten us through Jesus Christ.. Greek is really needed if you want to quote details.
And i disagree with you about Col 1:16 as well. It's talking about God, and then it moves on talking about Christ.
So, give me a call when your ready to discus this in Greek. I am not going to believe your translations while i have the Greek before my nose. You can understand that right?
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I already stated that the information I posted was not for your benefit. And why in Heaven's name would I choose to discuss anything at all with someone whose idea of intelligent conversation starts out "Blablabla"? You are now officially on "ignore." So knock yourself out writing posts to me that I won't be seeing.
You're just re-iterating the cycle, specifically the part where you're ignoring people--
You are reading text and interpreting it to mean X.
You spend your time arguing against position X.
But no one in this conversation believes X, because your interpreting things differently than LDS folks do. LDS instead believe Y.
LDS folks point out this out, and are ignored-- you state don't care.
You continue arguing against position X and "conclude" LDS beliefs are false because of position X. You also then flame some.
LDS person scratches their head and says "... but no one here believes X".
So once again, here's the options:
--- You can continue to argue against X and I'll continue not to care. <<-- This is the current course of action you're taking.
--- If you want talk about what I or someone else actually believes, we can do that. But that does require you to listen.
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
Lol, guys, see how these two Mormons deviate when i post verses and explain them in Greek. I will repost it for people who actually want to learn something instead of blindly following their sect.
Alma 11:38-40 and Mosiah 3:8 are based on mistranslations from the Greek New Testament. And so is the doctrine of the Book of Mormon about Jesus as well. And that's how it shows that the Book of Mormon is false. And a false Gospel, created by an Anti Christ. It's the Anti Christ who says that 'He'/Jesus is God.
John 1:1 etc. is talking about God not about Jesus. But it says that the Logos is Divine because it's from God since God is Divine. Since God created everything with Hes Word, He says "Be" and it "Is". Just like He created Adam and Jesus, He said "Be" and it "Was".
Trinitarians love to abuse John 1. It's talking about God, not about Jesus.. God created Jesus, and you and me, and everything.
John 5:43, that doesn't mean Jesus is God? The Quran begings in 113 chapters with In the name of God, that doesn't mean Muhammad was God.
John 14:28, the Father is Greater then everything, so that doesn't say that Jesus is God either.
John 10:30, they are one in agreement. Just like Adam and Eve were one. Just like we are one with Christ if we follow him. That doesn't mean we are Christ. Or that Adam and Eve were one person...
Lets continue this discussion in Greek. Most translations are distorted anyways. It would be wise to learn the language of the Book you believe in. I don't want you to quote what your religious leaders say and what the sectarian translators translated.
Eph 3:9 is talking about God who is the Creator of All to Enlighten us through Jesus Christ.. Greek is really needed if you want to quote details.
And i disagree with you about Col 1:16 as well. It's talking about God, and then it moves on talking about Christ.
So, give me a call when your ready to discus this in Greek. I am not going to believe your translations while i have the Greek before my nose. You can understand that right?
Alma 11:38-40 and Mosiah 3:8 are based on mistranslations from the Greek New Testament. And so is the doctrine of the Book of Mormon about Jesus as well. And that's how it shows that the Book of Mormon is false. And a false Gospel, created by an Anti Christ. It's the Anti Christ who says that 'He'/Jesus is God.
John 1:1 etc. is talking about God not about Jesus. But it says that the Logos is Divine because it's from God since God is Divine. Since God created everything with Hes Word, He says "Be" and it "Is". Just like He created Adam and Jesus, He said "Be" and it "Was".
Trinitarians love to abuse John 1. It's talking about God, not about Jesus.. God created Jesus, and you and me, and everything.
John 5:43, that doesn't mean Jesus is God? The Quran begings in 113 chapters with In the name of God, that doesn't mean Muhammad was God.
John 14:28, the Father is Greater then everything, so that doesn't say that Jesus is God either.
John 10:30, they are one in agreement. Just like Adam and Eve were one. Just like we are one with Christ if we follow him. That doesn't mean we are Christ. Or that Adam and Eve were one person...
Lets continue this discussion in Greek. Most translations are distorted anyways. It would be wise to learn the language of the Book you believe in. I don't want you to quote what your religious leaders say and what the sectarian translators translated.
Eph 3:9 is talking about God who is the Creator of All to Enlighten us through Jesus Christ.. Greek is really needed if you want to quote details.
And i disagree with you about Col 1:16 as well. It's talking about God, and then it moves on talking about Christ.
So, give me a call when your ready to discus this in Greek. I am not going to believe your translations while i have the Greek before my nose. You can understand that right?
Have fun jousting against strawmen than no one here actually believes
W3bcrowf3r
Active Member
Have fun jousting against strawmen than no one here actually believes
Alma 11:38-40 and Mosiah 3:8 are based on mistranslations from the Greek New Testament. And so is the doctrine of the Book of Mormon about Jesus as well. And that's how it shows that the Book of Mormon is false. And a false Gospel, created by an Anti Christ. It's the Anti Christ who says that 'He'/Jesus is God.
John 1:1 etc. is talking about God not about Jesus. But it says that the Logos is Divine because it's from God since God is Divine. Since God created everything with Hes Word, He says "Be" and it "Is". Just like He created Adam and Jesus, He said "Be" and it "Was".
Trinitarians love to abuse John 1. It's talking about God, not about Jesus.. God created Jesus, and you and me, and everything.
John 5:43, that doesn't mean Jesus is God? The Quran begings in 113 chapters with In the name of God, that doesn't mean Muhammad was God.
John 14:28, the Father is Greater then everything, so that doesn't say that Jesus is God either.
John 10:30, they are one in agreement. Just like Adam and Eve were one. Just like we are one with Christ if we follow him. That doesn't mean we are Christ. Or that Adam and Eve were one person...
Lets continue this discussion in Greek. Most translations are distorted anyways. It would be wise to learn the language of the Book you believe in. I don't want you to quote what your religious leaders say and what the sectarian translators translated.
Eph 3:9 is talking about God who is the Creator of All to Enlighten us through Jesus Christ.. Greek is really needed if you want to quote details.
And i disagree with you about Col 1:16 as well. It's talking about God, and then it moves on talking about Christ.