Notanumber
A Free Man
Even if the government falls, the dangerous ideology will continue to flourish.
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What happened to the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi
- Thread starter magid
- Start date
Even if the government falls, the dangerous ideology will continue to flourish.
History has shown that dangerous ideologies have a lifespan and fade away with time.
Need not, but may. Unpopular regimes shored up by foreign funding and weapons have tendency to breed extremist reactionaries.
Notanumber
A Free Man
Fourteen hundred years is a long time with no sign of a decline.
Augustus
…
Still, had he been alive he would probably have supported his own death so cannot really be too upset about it. I doubt he'd want to be seen as a hypocrite as well as a sectarian bigot:
Khashoggi went on to say that the execution of Sheikh Nimr was justified.
"It is a clear message to anybody who wants to overthrow the government," he stated. "Nimr openly called for overthrow of the system and allegiance to Wilayit al-Faqih, [Iran's Supreme Leader].
"That amounts as treason by any democratic country," he continued. "[His execution] is not about his view as a Shia; it's about his call to overthrow the government and swear allegiance to a foreign leader."
(The execution of a high-profile Shia cleric by Saudi Arabia on Saturday has unleashed a torrent of reactions from other countries, groups and family, ranging from anger to sadness to calls for peace.
Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr was executed along with 46 other prisoners who were charged with terrorism counts by the oil-rich kingdom.
Nimr, a prominent leader in the Shia-populated al-Qatif region in eastern Saudi Arabia, played an instrumental role in the protests that broke out in 2011 and 2012, calling for political reforms. He was arrested in July 2012...
Police shot Sheikh Nimr in the leg four times in disputed circumstances as they detained him after a car chase in Eastern Province's Qatif district.
Officials said he rammed a security forces vehicle, leading to a gun battle. However, his family disputed the allegation that he resisted arrest and insisted that he did not own a weapon.
The cleric was held for eight months before being charged and reportedly spent the first four in an isolation cell at a prison hospital in Riyadh.
Activists and relatives say Sheikh Nimr, who has a wide following among Shia in Eastern Province and other states, supported only peaceful protests and eschewed all violent opposition to the government.
In 2011, he told the BBC that he supported "the roar of the word against authorities rather than weapons... the weapon of the word is stronger than bullets, because authorities will profit from a battle of weapons".
His arrest prompted days of protests in which three people were killed.
Human Rights Watch said more than 1,040 people had been arrested at Shia protests between February 2011 and August 2014. At least 240 are still believed to be in detention.
"I think the message that Saudis are saying is: 'We will arrest anybody. We don't care how high profile they are... nobody is above this. We don't have any tolerance. We don't have any flexibility,'" HRW Middle East researcher Adam Coogle told AP after Sheikh Nimr's sentencing.)
Khashoggi went on to say that the execution of Sheikh Nimr was justified.
"It is a clear message to anybody who wants to overthrow the government," he stated. "Nimr openly called for overthrow of the system and allegiance to Wilayit al-Faqih, [Iran's Supreme Leader].
"That amounts as treason by any democratic country," he continued. "[His execution] is not about his view as a Shia; it's about his call to overthrow the government and swear allegiance to a foreign leader."
(The execution of a high-profile Shia cleric by Saudi Arabia on Saturday has unleashed a torrent of reactions from other countries, groups and family, ranging from anger to sadness to calls for peace.
Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr was executed along with 46 other prisoners who were charged with terrorism counts by the oil-rich kingdom.
Nimr, a prominent leader in the Shia-populated al-Qatif region in eastern Saudi Arabia, played an instrumental role in the protests that broke out in 2011 and 2012, calling for political reforms. He was arrested in July 2012...
Police shot Sheikh Nimr in the leg four times in disputed circumstances as they detained him after a car chase in Eastern Province's Qatif district.
Officials said he rammed a security forces vehicle, leading to a gun battle. However, his family disputed the allegation that he resisted arrest and insisted that he did not own a weapon.
The cleric was held for eight months before being charged and reportedly spent the first four in an isolation cell at a prison hospital in Riyadh.
Activists and relatives say Sheikh Nimr, who has a wide following among Shia in Eastern Province and other states, supported only peaceful protests and eschewed all violent opposition to the government.
In 2011, he told the BBC that he supported "the roar of the word against authorities rather than weapons... the weapon of the word is stronger than bullets, because authorities will profit from a battle of weapons".
His arrest prompted days of protests in which three people were killed.
Human Rights Watch said more than 1,040 people had been arrested at Shia protests between February 2011 and August 2014. At least 240 are still believed to be in detention.
"I think the message that Saudis are saying is: 'We will arrest anybody. We don't care how high profile they are... nobody is above this. We don't have any tolerance. We don't have any flexibility,'" HRW Middle East researcher Adam Coogle told AP after Sheikh Nimr's sentencing.)
That ignores most of the history of Islam. Islam is one of the world's greatest religions. In recent times there's an attempted hijacking by fanatics. But this is a time of fanaticism as we can see when Buddhists attack Muslims, anti-Jewish bigotry is on the rise and so forth.
Anthem
Active Member
Khashoggi died in consulate fight - Saudis
"Journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in a fight in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the country's state TV reports, quoting an initial inquiry..... ........Unnamed officials speaking to Reuters news agency and the New York Times say the Saudis did not know the whereabouts of the body after it was handed to a "local collaborator" to dispose of."
"Journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in a fight in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the country's state TV reports, quoting an initial inquiry..... ........Unnamed officials speaking to Reuters news agency and the New York Times say the Saudis did not know the whereabouts of the body after it was handed to a "local collaborator" to dispose of."
Notanumber
A Free Man
Anyone that disagrees with that statement has been silenced from saying so in Europe.
That should tell anyone all they need to know about Islam.
French think tank calls for 'halal tax' on Muslims and many more sources refute that absolutist claim.
But note that I wrote specifically about the history of Islam not the current group of fanatics and salaifsts.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I figure it will be shotgunned with conjecture and rumors making the truth a needle in a haystack which will likely be (tactfully) lost under a pile of misinformation.
Notanumber
A Free Man
Are the current group of fanatics and salaifsts any more barbaric than their hero Muhammad?
Yes absolutely.
Notanumber
A Free Man
If you believe that and can prove this unbeliever wrong, you can claim $1,000.
The Story of Mohammed: Prove Me Wrong and I'll Pay You US$1,000
$1000 - he has to be kidding. Spend months writing up a refutation for a measly $1000 which he won't pay anyway claiming I'm wrong. He's so uncertain about his thesis that he won't offer serious money.
Wrong. Moses commanded that Jericho be conquered. King David is considered to be a prophet as is King Solomon. In the East, Avatar Krishna and Avatar Rama were kings and involved in wars.
Wrong. That is not the proper translation of the word "jihad" which in fact means "struggle". The greater jihad is the struggle against one's lower nature. The lesser struggle is against those who attack Islam.
Wrong. Venezuela has the largest oil reserves and Canada is number 3. Hardly "lion's share" The World’s Largest Oil Reserves By Country
1 Venezuela 300,878
2 Saudi Arabia 266,455
3 Canada 169,709
4 Iran 158,400
5 Iraq 142,503
6 Kuwait 101,500
7 United Arab Emirates 97,800
8 Russia 80,000
9 Libya 48,363
10 United States 39,230
Also wrong is "dwindling: World Crude Oil Reserves by Year (Billion Barrels)
1999 1036.6000001207 1.32 %
2000 1020.70000071824 -1.53 %
2001 1031.99999991804 1.11 %
2002 1034.90000016987 0.28 %
2003 1215.1000001356 17.41 %
2004 1264.7999998033 4.09 %
2005 1278.90000012517 1.11 %
2006 1292.2000002563 1.04 %
2007 1310.50000065565 1.42 %
2008 1327.40000023693 1.29 %
2009 1336.3999998197 0.68 %
2010 1349.09999986738 0.95 %
2011 1467.9999999851 8.81 %
2012 1521.10000033677 3.62 %
2013 1642.00000020862 7.95 %
2014 1647.80000080913 0.35 %
2015 1615.40000067651 -1.97 %
And that's just a few easy ones to refute on the start of that book. I did not get into the question of how many wars during Muhammad's life were defensive.
From what I see at the start, his mission is to stir up fear not to present an accurate view of Islam especially as taught by Muhammad.
And, for example, a prophecy of Muhammad's:
The time is near in which nothing will remain of Islam but its name, and
of the Kuran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be
destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst
people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them,
and it will return upon themselves.
...
Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I
know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
...
Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such
stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that
they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.
Another version of this prophecy and more are at Signs of the Last Day - The Rejection of the True Religionof the Kuran but its mere appearance, and the mosques of Muslims will be
destitute of of knowledge and worship; and the learned will be the worst
people under the heavens; and contention and strife will issue from them,
and it will return upon themselves.
...
Ye follower of Muhammad, I swear by the Lord, if ye did but know what I
know of the future state, verily ye would laugh little and cry much.
...
Men will be liars towards the end of the world; and will relate such
stories as neither you nor your fathers ever heard. Then avoid them, that
they may not lead you astray and throw you into contention and strife.
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Notanumber
A Free Man
Why wait until the Last Day to abandon the Qur’an. Why not do it now and save us all a lot of grief.
Do you believe in the implementation of Blasphemy laws in western societies?
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