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Cradle Christianity vs. "Big Brother" for ex

Neale

Debonaire Rationale
A pressing philosophical funk that has been on my mind as of lately is
the notion of "Big Brother" vis a vis the Abrahamic "God" to those who
have never known any other faith than Christianity.

What I mean by this is simply, the idea that "God is always
watching/knows your heart/thoughts/etc." If one begins to question
their faith in Christianity, and subsequently convert to another
religion, or subscribe to a philosophical set of metaphysical ideas,
they will surely secure a place outside of God's graces. Whatever
notion of "hell" is sure to come into the picture after this.

Can anyone offer their thoughts on this? Am I misrepresenting God's
infinite mercy here?
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Neale are you saying that if you don't believe that God can read your mind that you will be outside his graces? Why do you think God has mercy or "infinite mercy" Can mercy be measured in terms like infinity at all? If something was or could be omnipresent why would it matter if you didn't percieve to be this way or not? If God is omnipresent than hell couldn't exist unless 'God got to rent out a room there from time to time.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
robtex said:
If God is omnipresent than hell couldn't exist unless 'God got to rent out a room there from time to time.
He does, fourth layer of Hades, directly across the hall from Belial.

Psalms 139:7-8 - Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
 

Neale

Debonaire Rationale
robtex said:
Neale are you saying that if you don't believe that God can read your mind that you will be outside his graces?

By the premise that God is omnipotent, and assuming that God can read your mind, if one were to dessent from X teachings (which include the notion of God), then it could be assumed that the very action of dessent (which God would know) would place that person outside of God's graces. At least that's a pseudo-Christian viewpoint.

robtex said:
Why do you think God has mercy or "infinite mercy"

Any religious adherant of a doctrine that says he does (The Bible, etc.) will naturally believe it.

robtex said:
Can mercy be measured in terms like infinity at all?

I would think that any abstraction can't be measured in finite terms. The term that ministers or society deems as "infinite," I would think, is only a clarification of degree vis a vis the abstraction.

robtex said:
If something was or could be omnipresent why would it matter if you didn't percieve to be this way or not? If God is omnipresent than hell couldn't exist unless 'God got to rent out a room there from time to time.

I don't believe in the physical plane of hell, but moreso a theological representation of the spiritual separation from said God. In this case, I argued that dissent from an omnipotent God ensures a spiritual separation by the very nature of the action.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
God connects to each of us through our soul which experiences the third dimension right along with us.

God is for all, not just Christians. Jesus did not visit any temple because He came to teach all of us about His Father.

You can never be outside of God's graces. He does not become angry. We all have infinite mercy from God but that does not mean we all want it or that we will even accept it.

Cannot a child still choose drugs over the endless help from their parents? Who is right? Who is to say what life another person must choose to live?

Hell is not everlasting fire torture. It is your soulless personality working and fighting for survival in a world ruled by other selfish beings.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Super Universe said:

God is for all, not just Christians. Jesus did not visit any temple because He came to teach all of us about His Father.

I'm pretty sure Jesus visited the temple every year, he even got left behind at the age of 12 for a couple of days. He also visited the temple in order to pray before he went a bit mad and threw out the money lenders.

Super Universe said:
You can never be outside of God's graces. He does not become angry. We all have infinite mercy from God but that does not mean we all want it or that we will even accept it.
He doesn't become angry? When was the last time you glanced at the OT?
 

Neale

Debonaire Rationale
Halcyon said:
He doesn't become angry? When was the last time you glanced at the OT?

Or read any of Johnathan Edward's sermons? Or listened to one contemporary southern televanglists? ;)
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
this is, of course, assuming that it's the christian way or the highway (and then you have to ask which version of christianity)

i don't believe that hell exists so...
 

Neale

Debonaire Rationale
jewscout said:
...this is, of course, assuming that it's the christian way or the highway...

Exactly! Growing up in a Christian/Jewish/etc. household, this is what one naturally will think since it's the only spiritual rearing that they would have ever encountered.

At what point in logic does one decide to step out of the Christian theology pool and dry off through this model?
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
jewscout said:
this is, of course, assuming that it's the christian way or the highway (and then you have to ask which version of christianity)
The correct one of course. According to a pamphlet which i received through the door, the correct religion is the Jehovah's Witnesses. I've never known a pamphlet to lie before, so...
 

Random

Well-Known Member
It's scary to think one cannot hide from the All-Seeing Eye of God, and yes, in that way that's a lot like Big Brother. God is the great monitor in the sky, recording everything you'd rather forget.

But that's only real when God is somebeing distinct from "Me", when He is "out there" or "up there", in the great beyond, out of reach and remote.

When you realise God is intimate and within, then the Watcher becomes yourself, you inside your own internal and external experiences. This being evident, the fear ceases.

"I" am the All-Seeing Eye. "I" am my own Big Brother. I cannot escape the truth of myself and what I do no matter where I run or try to hide. Simple as that.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Halcyon said:
I'm pretty sure Jesus visited the temple every year, he even got left behind at the age of 12 for a couple of days. He also visited the temple in order to pray before he went a bit mad and threw out the money lenders.

He doesn't become angry? When was the last time you glanced at the OT?

Yes, Jesus did visit the temple many times as a growing boy. He was left behind at the temple (at age 13) when Joseph and Mary departed Jerusalem in separate groups, each thought Jesus was with the other. I was not aware that this story is found outside of the Urantia Book.

My point was that once Jesus reached full realization about who He was (The Son of God) He did not go to any temple. The reason for this is because He did not come to be the messiah for just the Jews, he came for all.

As for God being angry, the source for all of it is human misunderstanding. They could not explain lightning so they said that Zeus threw bolts from heaven. Once monotheism took over they simply transferred their old tribal traditions to this "new" God. Even today they consider natural events "Acts of God".

God is the Creator not the destroyer. He has never done any of the harmful things blamed on Him in the Old Testament.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Super Universe said:
Yes, Jesus did visit the temple many times as a growing boy. He was left behind at the temple (at age 13) when Joseph and Mary departed Jerusalem in separate groups, each thought Jesus was with the other. I was not aware that this story is found outside of the Urantia Book.
Gospel According to Luke.

Super Universe said:
My point was that once Jesus reached full realization about who He was (The Son of God) He did not go to any temple. The reason for this is because He did not come to be the messiah for just the Jews, he came for all.
Like i said, he went back to the Temple to pray as an adult, with his followers. However upon arrival he found money lenders and variosu merchants filling the outer temple and went loopy, thus getting himself ejected from the Temple grounds.
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Neale said:
Exactly! Growing up in a Christian/Jewish/etc. household, this is what one naturally will think since it's the only spiritual rearing that they would have ever encountered.

maybe in a christian household...
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Not all cradle Cristians believe so narrowly as you think they do. Not every cradle Christian parks his brain at the church door. There is such a thing as a cradle Christian who constantly questions what he has been taught, and adjusts his faith to what he perceives is reasonable, within the milieu of religious thought. There are cradle Christians who embrace the truth found in every viable religion.

Your post displays the same thought process as one who watched "Jaws" and then claims that all sharks are dangerous man-eaters. In the case of Christianity, a few "bad apples" neither define, nor spoil, the lot.
 

Neale

Debonaire Rationale
sojourner said:
Not all cradle Cristians believe so narrowly as you think they do....In the case of Christianity, a few "bad apples" neither define, nor spoil, the lot.

That's true, and I didn't intend to make a stereotype. That model can be applied towards any organization. Regardless, one can still argue and explain through, and out from any perspective - this one just so happens to be one of them :) .
 
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