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The Creationist's Argument and its Greatest Weakness

Skwim

Veteran Member
Atheists believe they have free will and God is not in control (or even exists) right?
Nope. I'm an agnostic (essentially a non-believer in god) and I have a couple of friends who are atheists, and we all reject the notion of free will.

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BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
since they cannot come to one consistent definition, then yes. If you go by a plurality the Catholics would get to set the definitions, and they would disagree strongly with you. Most would not agree with your abuse of the phrase "born again" .

It is rather amazing that you would post such a self defeating post and then think that you are the one that should be face palming. Try again.

Jesus's words appear in the Bible. The Bible definition of born again is not adhered to by Catholics because:

1) Rome strongly de-emphasizes Bible study
2) Individual Catholics have a passing acquaintance with Bible study

It would be little different if you started a Christian cult without using the Bible. I follow Jesus (Christianity/Christian) and READ WHAT HE SAID TO DO SO.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Jesus's words appear in the Bible. The Bible definition of born again is not adhered to by Catholics because:

1) Rome strongly de-emphasizes Bible study
2) Individual Catholics have a passing acquaintance with Bible study

It would be little different if you started a Christian cult without using the Bible. I follow Jesus (Christianity/Christian) and READ WHAT HE SAID TO DO SO.
and now you are treating your personal interpretation of the Bible as if it were that of most Christians. Being "born again" is mostly a U.S. fundy concept.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Atheists are not born again. How can we be saved if we are not born again?

The Cross and Resurrection has moved some atheists to be born again. To answer your question directly, IMHO you cannot be saved if you refuse to be born again:

1) Man must be transformed to be in a utopia, not pulling it down
2) Transformation comes from God
3) The Cross is the perfect dying for the imperfect
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
This scam is pretty nifty. I suppose it keeps the pews and collection plates full.

It's a "scam" to say all men lie?

It's a "scam" to say all men lie in the OT, documents binding only on the Israelites, whose religious leaders had their power, income and wives limited by the OT? And couldn't even own land in the OT times?
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
It's a "scam" to say all men lie?

It's a "scam" to say all men lie in the OT, documents binding only on the Israelites, whose religious leaders had their power, income and wives limited by the OT? And couldn't even own land in the OT times?

The christian scam is making people think themselves automatically degenerate and so dependent on religion for salvation. That has been keeping clergy on easy street for millenia.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Jesus's words appear in the Bible. The Bible definition of born again is not adhered to by Catholics because:

1) Rome strongly de-emphasizes Bible study
2) Individual Catholics have a passing acquaintance with Bible study

It would be little different if you started a Christian cult without using the Bible. I follow Jesus (Christianity/Christian) and READ WHAT HE SAID TO DO SO.
I don't know what specific cult/sect you belong to, but I suspect most Catholics would state that you are not True Christian.
 
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