Updating the Genesis Creation Story

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
Taken from Wiki.
According to the text it was written just before Augustus' death in AD 14, but it was probably written years earlier and likely went through many revisions.[6] Augustus left the text with his will, which instructed the Senate to set up the inscriptions. The original, which has not survived, was engraved upon a pair of bronze pillars and placed in front of Augustus' mausoleum. Many copies of the text were made and carved in stone on monuments or temples throughout the Roman Empire, some of which have survived; most notably, almost a full copy, written in the original Latin and a Greek translation was preserved on a temple to Augustus in Ancyra (the Monumentum Ancyranum of Ankara, Turkey); others have been found at Apollonia and Antioch, both in Pisidia

Most scholars now think that Jesus was born about 6 B.C. According to Matthew (2:13-15), Joseph took Mary and the young child Jesus to Egypt and stayed there until the death of Herod the Great, which was in the spring of 4. B.C.

Josephus tells us that in the summer of 4 B.C. [The year in which Herod the Great died,] Judah raised a rebellion, marched on Sepphoris and seized the arsenal there. He then armed all the peasants in the district surrounding that city.

Quinctilus Varus, the Roman governor of Syria, divided his forces. One part of the army routed the rebels, burned Sepphoris to the ground and enslaved the survivors. The smoke would have been visible from Nazareth from which Joseph with Mary and her 2-year-old boy had just recently departed, in obedience to a dream that Joseph had, while the wise men, who, two years previously had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, were visiting them, and the family fled into Egypt Just prior to the riots, while the wise men returned to Mesopotamia by a different route than that by which they had travelled to Jerusalem.

A Roman column scoured the countryside in search of those responsible for the revolt. "Great numbers" were caught. Some were eventually pardoned after a period in custody, but 2,000 of those deemed to be most guilty were crucified. It's not clear where these executions were carried out, but it seems reasonable to assume that many or most of them were in the lower Galilee, hotbed of the rebellion.

Crucifixions took place along roadsides, and bodies were left to rot as examples to others. Conventional histories don't record the magnitude of this event, but in Jewish tradition "the war of Quinctilus Varus" came to rank with the catastrophic uprising of 66-70 A.D. and the calamitous Bar Kochba revolt of 132-135 A.D.

One of Herod's sons, Herod Antipas, who ruled Galilee from late 4 B.C, after the death of his father, rebuilt Sepphoris as a showcase, and turned it into the "ornament of Galilee," as Josephus described it. Rebuilding the city of Sepphoris would have been the main construction project going on in the neighborhood of Nazareth during the life of the young Jesus.

Jesus' trade has been translated from the Greek “tekton” as "carpenter," but "tekton" really means a construction worker -- a builder with rocks and heavy timbers. Archelaus, one of Herod’s sons began his reign over Samaria and Judea in 4 B.C., when Herod Antipas began his rule over Galilee.

When Was Jesus Born? When Did Herod Die?
Q&C, BAR, January/February 2014

Professor John A. Cramer argues that Herod the Great most likely died shortly after the lunar eclipse of December 29, 1 B.C., rather than that of March 13, 4 B.C., which, as Cramer points out, is the eclipse traditionally associated with Josephus’s description in Jewish Antiquities 17.6.4 (Queries & Comments, “When Was Jesus Born?” BAR, July/August 2013) and which is used as a basis to reckon Jesus’ birth shortly before 4 B.C. Professor Cramer’s argument was made in the 19th century by scholars such as Édouard Caspari and Florian Riess.

There are three principal reasons why the 4 B.C. date has prevailed over 1 B.C. These reasons were articulated by Emil Schürer in A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ, also published in the 19th century. First, Josephus informs us that Herod died shortly before a Passover (Antiquities 17.9.3, The Jewish War 2.1.3), making a lunar eclipse in March (the time of the 4 B.C. eclipse) much more likely than one in December.

Second, Josephus writes that Herod reigned for 37 years from the time of his appointment in 40 B.C. and 34 years from his conquest of Jerusalem in 37 B.C. (Antiquities 17.8.1, War 1.33.8). Using so-called inclusive counting, this, too, places Herod’s death in 4 B.C.

Third, we know that the reign over Samaria and Judea of Herod’s son and successor Archelaus began in 4 B.C., based on the fact that he was deposed by Caesar in A.U.C. (Anno Urbis Conditae [in the year the city was founded]) 759, or A.D. 6, in the tenth year of his reign (Dio Cassius, Roman History 55.27.6; Josephus, Antiquities 17.13.2). Counting backward his reign began in 4 B.C. In addition, from Herod the Great’s son and successor Herod Antipas, who ruled over Galilee until 39 B.C., who ordered the execution of John the Baptist (Mark 6:14–29) and who had a supporting role in Jesus’ trial (Luke 23:7–12), we have coins that make reference to the 43rd year of his rule, placing its beginning in 4 B.C. at the latest (see Morten Hørning Jensen, “Antipas—The Herod Jesus Knew,” BAR, September/October 2012).

Thus, Schürer concluded that “Herod died at Jericho in B.C. 4, unwept by those of his own house, and hated by all the people.”

Jeroen H.C. Tempelman
New York, New York

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

It is said that Yehoshua/Jesus III, the grand-father of Mary, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC, died 3 years before the birth of his grand-daughter, and knowing that Jehoshua was still alive in 23 BC, then the earliest that Mary could have been born is 20 BC. Herod the Great died in the spring [April] of 4 BC, 16 years after the birth of Mary, and as Herod believed that the child Jesus, who he saw as a threat to his throne was around two years old, the age of all the male children that he commanded his men to kill, then the latest that Jesus could have been born, is 6 BC, which was the year of the triple conjunction of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn and two years before the death of Herod the Great, which would make Mary 14 years old when she gave birth to her firstborn son.

As it was prophesied, that an heavenly event would herald the birth of the promised Messiah, we must ask if there was any significant heavenly event in 6 BC.

"Astronomy, Astrology, and the Star of Bethlehem." BY John Clevenger of the Lake Country Astronomical Society," which says as follows, "Did any unusual astronomical phenomenon occur between 8 and 2 BC? As it happens there were several notable celestial events during that period. The Chinese reported two comets during that time. The comet of 5 BC which was visible for 70 days, was reported to have a tail. Professor Humphreys of Cambridge University believes that this comet, which he describes as having a vertical tail, appeared at the time of the Jewish Passover. Professor Humpherys believed that this started the Magi, who were knowledgeable of the Jewish prophecy recorded in the book of Micah, concerning the birth of a Jewish king, on their journey.

If right about the vertical tail, this could agree with the biblical account in Matthew that the "Star Stood Over" [The House----Not the manger ] where the young child was". The comet of 4 BC had no tail and whether it was a comet or a nova is unknown. If it was a nova in 4 BC, which is the death of a star, it would have coincided with the death of Herod the Great in that same year. While historians have usually suggested that comets were always bad omens. Humphreys believes that history shows them to be either good or bad omens.

I could also use any of a number of authorities to supply evidence of the 6 BC triple conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the “God of War” and Saturn the “God of Time,” who brings the golden age of peace to the earth, which I believe was read by the wise men as the sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the promised King, who was to succeed to the throne of David the warrior king, as the prophesied Messianic King of Israel, who is to come and subdue the surrounding Nations and bring in the golden Age of one thousand years of peace.

It was the comet of 5 BC, which was seen by professor Humpherys as the star that started the wise men on their journey to Jerusalem. Comets in those days, were called “Hairy Stars.” It was this star that guided the wise men who were believed to be Astronomer, Astrologers from the land of Mesopotamia to Jerusalem in Judaea.

The title "wise men" is translated from the original Greek word magos. The word refers to a priest of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. These priests, or magi, frequently looked to the stars for signs of the future and gained an international reputation for astrology and revelation/divination.

It is more than probable that the "wise men" were in fact Zoroastrian priests from Persia. And as there was a sizable Jewish presence in Babylon at that time, they obviously studied the old Hebrew scriptures.

The Bible also states that when the magi found the child Jesus, they "fell down and worshiped him." This verse references or indicates bowing, kneeling or prostration, which was generally viewed by both the ancient Jews and Romans as undignified, and in Jewish tradition was reserved for their God alone. However, for Persians, bowing or kneeling was a sign of respect generally directed toward kings.

Having witnessed in 6 BC, the conjunction of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings in the golden age of peace to the earth," which I believe was the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, because it appeared two years before the death of Herod the Great in April of 4 BC, and as two years and below, was the age of the children that Herod commanded to be slaughtered just before his death, which age was in accordance with what he had learned from the wise men as to the exact time that they had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, which had to be around 6 BC. See Matthew 2: 16.

I believe that the Bible should only be interpreted by the scriptures themselves. The Books of the Bible are like wheels of interlocking cogs, wheels within wheels, here a little and there a little etc.

Luke tells us that Mary gave birth to her firstborn son in the town of Bethlehem of Judea, as opposed to the Bethlehem, which was about two miles from Nazareth in Galilee, which town is now called Beitlahm, and that eight days after the child was born, it was circumcised and named Jesus. Then thirty-three days later, and before the wise men from the east had come and lavished their gifts of Gold, Frank-incense and mire, on the baby Jesus, he was taken OPENLY to the temple in Jerusalem by his not so financial parents, where his mother performed the purification ceremony, in accordance to the time that the law handed down through Moses demanded.

And after they had completed everything in ACCORDANCE TO THE LAW, they returned to their home in Nazareth. Luke makes no mention of any wise men traveling to Bethlehem of Judaea, or of any slaughter of the innocents.

How do we know, even though it is not mentioned in Luke, that it was thirty-three days after the circumcision that the ceremony of purification was performed? Because Luke says, "And when the days of her purification ACCORDING TO THE LAW OF MOSES were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord.

According to scripture, the child was taken to the temple in Jerusalem for the ceremony of purification at the correct time demanded by the law of Moses, which was 41 days after the birth, immediately after which, the family returned to their home in Nazareth.

To find out when the days of her purification according to the Law of Moses were accomplished, we simply turn to Leviticus 12: 3-4; and let the Bible reveal itself to us: (3) On the eighth day the child shall be circumcised. (4) Then it shall be 33 more days until she is ritually clean from her loss of blood; etc.

How do we know that the parents of Jesus were not flushed financially? Again, we must let the Bible reveal that to us, Leviticus 12: 8, "If the woman cannot afford a lamb, she shall bring two doves or pigeons etc," the fact that the birds were offered, shows that they were unable to afford a lamb, and had not yet received the gifts of Gold, etc.

How long was it before the wise men, after seeing the comet early in the spring of 5 BC, which is believed to have been the inspiration for them to travel to Jerusalem, decided that they should go to pay homage to the heir of that throne, and to organize that trip? And how long did it take them to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem?

The only help that we receive from the Bible is found in Ezra 7: 8-9; "They (Ezra and his group) left Babylonia on the first day of the first month, and with God’s help they arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the fifth month."

Four months, it took them to travel to Jerusalem. Even if we halve that time and take into account that the comet which inspired them to travel to Jerusalem had not appeared until sometime after the triple conjunction of 6 BC, which had heralded the birth of Jesus, there is no possible way that the wise men could have seen the baby Jesus in the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea, as the family had returned to Nazareth 2 months after the birth of the child.

Traveling presumably, across the "Kings Highway" to Jerusalem to pay homage to the new King, they went to the palace of Herod the Great, the then current ruler of Israel, expecting to find there, the young child whose birth had been heralded by the heavenly sign of 6 BC, the young child that they believed was the Messianic heir to the throne of David, and they asked, "where is the child that has been born to be King of the Jews."[Has been born/past tense]

After receiving verification from his priests that the prophesied King was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, Herod then called the visitors to a SECRET meeting and enquired of them the EXACT time that they had first seen the star which was to herald the birth of the long awaited king and savour, and it was in accordance with the information he received from the wise men, that he determined the age of the children who were to be slaughtered, "all the males who were two years of age and below."

Having been told that the child was to be born in Bethlehem of Judea, the wise men left the palace and the star/comet appeared once again, and Oh what joy was theirs. Matthew 2: 9-10. Revealing that the comet had previously been hidden from their view, by clouds, dust, full moon or some other cause, and it was this star which was seen in the North West that guided the wise men, not to Bethlehem of Judaea in the south, but to Nazareth of Galilee to the north of Jerusalem.

The Comet of 5BC which is said to have a tail and remained visible to those in the northern hemisphere for 70 days and led the Magi to the child Jesus in Nazareth, would have been very similar to the comet Hale-bopp.
To be continued.

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
Taken from Wiki.
According to the text it was written just before Augustus' death in AD 14, but it was probably written years earlier and likely went through many revisions.[6] Augustus left the text with his will, which instructed the Senate to set up the inscriptions. The original, which has not survived, was engraved upon a pair of bronze pillars and placed in front of Augustus' mausoleum. Many copies of the text were made and carved in stone on monuments or temples throughout the Roman Empire, some of which have survived; most notably, almost a full copy, written in the original Latin and a Greek translation was preserved on a temple to Augustus in Ancyra (the Monumentum Ancyranum of Ankara, Turkey); others have been found at Apollonia and Antioch, both in Pisidia

Most scholars now think that Jesus was born about 6 B.C. According to Matthew (2:13-15), Joseph took Mary and the young child Jesus to Egypt and stayed there until the death of Herod the Great, which was in the spring of 4. B.C.

Josephus tells us that in the summer of 4 B.C. [The year in which Herod the Great died,] Judah raised a rebellion, marched on Sepphoris and seized the arsenal there. He then armed all the peasants in the district surrounding that city.

Quinctilus Varus, the Roman governor of Syria, divided his forces. One part of the army routed the rebels, burned Sepphoris to the ground and enslaved the survivors. The smoke would have been visible from Nazareth from which Joseph with Mary and her 2-year-old boy had just recently departed, in obedience to a dream that Joseph had, while the wise men, who, two years previously had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, were visiting them, and the family fled into Egypt Just prior to the riots, while the wise men returned to Mesopotamia by a different route than that by which they had travelled to Jerusalem.

A Roman column scoured the countryside in search of those responsible for the revolt. "Great numbers" were caught. Some were eventually pardoned after a period in custody, but 2,000 of those deemed to be most guilty were crucified. It's not clear where these executions were carried out, but it seems reasonable to assume that many or most of them were in the lower Galilee, hotbed of the rebellion.

Crucifixions took place along roadsides, and bodies were left to rot as examples to others. Conventional histories don't record the magnitude of this event, but in Jewish tradition "the war of Quinctilus Varus" came to rank with the catastrophic uprising of 66-70 A.D. and the calamitous Bar Kochba revolt of 132-135 A.D.

One of Herod's sons, Herod Antipas, who ruled Galilee from late 4 B.C, after the death of his father, rebuilt Sepphoris as a showcase, and turned it into the "ornament of Galilee," as Josephus described it. Rebuilding the city of Sepphoris would have been the main construction project going on in the neighborhood of Nazareth during the life of the young Jesus.

Jesus' trade has been translated from the Greek “tekton” as "carpenter," but "tekton" really means a construction worker -- a builder with rocks and heavy timbers. Archelaus, one of Herod’s sons began his reign over Samaria and Judea in 4 B.C., when Herod Antipas began his rule over Galilee.

What are you responding to here? This appears to be totally unrelated to the nativity myths.

I totally refuted your bogus source, you do realize that don't you?

Let's go over this one more time. Luke said that the census that made them go to Jerusalem (and no census would do that. The Romans were not idiots) was the first that Quirinius took when he became governor of Syria. Qurinius's history is well known. That was in the year 6 CE.

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
When Was Jesus Born? When Did Herod Die?
Q&C, BAR, January/February 2014

Professor John A. Cramer argues that Herod the Great most likely died shortly after the lunar eclipse of December 29, 1 B.C., rather than that of March 13, 4 B.C., which, as Cramer points out, is the eclipse traditionally associated with Josephus’s description in Jewish Antiquities 17.6.4 (Queries & Comments, “When Was Jesus Born?” BAR, July/August 2013) and which is used as a basis to reckon Jesus’ birth shortly before 4 B.C. Professor Cramer’s argument was made in the 19th century by scholars such as Édouard Caspari and Florian Riess.

There are three principal reasons why the 4 B.C. date has prevailed over 1 B.C. These reasons were articulated by Emil Schürer in A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ, also published in the 19th century. First, Josephus informs us that Herod died shortly before a Passover (Antiquities 17.9.3, The Jewish War 2.1.3), making a lunar eclipse in March (the time of the 4 B.C. eclipse) much more likely than one in December.

Second, Josephus writes that Herod reigned for 37 years from the time of his appointment in 40 B.C. and 34 years from his conquest of Jerusalem in 37 B.C. (Antiquities 17.8.1, War 1.33.8). Using so-called inclusive counting, this, too, places Herod’s death in 4 B.C.

Third, we know that the reign over Samaria and Judea of Herod’s son and successor Archelaus began in 4 B.C., based on the fact that he was deposed by Caesar in A.U.C. (Anno Urbis Conditae [in the year the city was founded]) 759, or A.D. 6, in the tenth year of his reign (Dio Cassius, Roman History 55.27.6; Josephus, Antiquities 17.13.2). Counting backward his reign began in 4 B.C. In addition, from Herod the Great’s son and successor Herod Antipas, who ruled over Galilee until 39 B.C., who ordered the execution of John the Baptist (Mark 6:14–29) and who had a supporting role in Jesus’ trial (Luke 23:7–12), we have coins that make reference to the 43rd year of his rule, placing its beginning in 4 B.C. at the latest (see Morten Hørning Jensen, “Antipas—The Herod Jesus Knew,” BAR, September/October 2012).

Thus, Schürer concluded that “Herod died at Jericho in B.C. 4, unwept by those of his own house, and hated by all the people.”

Jeroen H.C. Tempelman
New York, New York

It appears that you are admitting that Luke screwed the pooch.

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

Continued from previous post.
March 1-10. The comet is up before the first light of dawn. about an hour and 45 minutes before sunrise. Step outdoors and look east-northeast and you would see Comet Hale-Bopp shining there moderately high. It's about as bright as the brightest stars, with a hazy head and a dimmer, filmy tail extending to the upper left.

Each night for the next two months, you would see it in a slightly different position in the heavens, where, with the background of stars it would seem to be moving from the east to the west as the earth rotates.

Then finally, after some two months, you would see it standing above the horizon with its tail streaming up into the heavens as it slowly follows the setting sun as it sinks below horizon.

Why didn’t the Jews see the comet/Hairy Star?

How many people would have seen the comet ‘Hale-Bopp which remained visible in the heavens for over seventy nights or how many would have even known it was there if they had not been told by the astronomers who studied the heavens every night?

On leaving the palace of Herod the Great in Jerusalem, the star appeared once again, but it was in the north west of Jerusalem, in which direction the wise men followed.

We can almost picture the scene, the wise men with their entourage travelling along the dusty roads of northern Israel, it’s late in the day and as they come to a rise, there, just above the distant horizon, in the deepening darkness of the evening sky, is the star with its tail streaming up into the heavens and appearing to stand over the small and insignificant hamlet of "Nazareth," as it slowly followed the setting sun.

Look up “Images of McNaught comet” to see how a comet appears to stand over an earthly object.

The term "Stood Over" in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only. And we are told that the star stood over the HOUSE [Not the manger in Bethlehem of Judaea in which Jesus the baby had been born] and it was in that house in Nazareth, to which the family had returned 2 months after the ceremony of purification had been performed, in which the wise men found Mary with her child, who by then was well over 12 months old.

How many people would have seen the comet ‘Hale-Bopp which remained visible in the heavens for over seventy nights or how many would have even known it was there if they had not been told by the astronomers who studied the heavens every night?

That night, after paying homage to the child Jesus, the wise men, who would presumably have travelled to Jerusalem across the Kings Highway, were warned in a dream not to reveal to Herod the child’s whereabouts, and they returned home by a different route from which they had come, which would, more than likely, have been up through the northern route of Damascus, and Joseph was also warned to get out of bed immediately and take the child and his mother and flee into Egypt.

Herod’s secret police had eyes and ears throughout the entire land, and when he realised that he had been tricked and the wise men were not going to return and reveal the child’s location as promised, he was furious and gave the order to kill all the male children in the district that Herod's spies had confirmed that the wise men with their entourage had travelled to, which was around Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below according to the time that he learned from the wise men about when they had first sighted the star that had heralded the birth of the promised king and savour.

According to Josephus the historian, Sepphoris, which is only about 4 miles from Bethlehem of Galilee, which town is now called Beitlahm, and a few kilometres from Nazareth, had a population of around thirty thousand and he called it, "The Ornament of Galilee."

Around the time of Herod’s death in the spring of 4BC, just after he had ordered the slaughter of the innocents around the district of Bethlehem of Galilee, who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded the birth of Jesus in 6 B.C. there were riots among the peasants of the area in Galilee of which Sepphoris was the centre. Judas, the son of Hezekias attacked the arsenal of Herod in the city of Sepphoris in order to arm the peasants.

The Romans under Quintillius Varus of Syria, attacked and burnt the city, putting down the uprising in which many families died and others were taken prisoner and transported to Rome, where they were sold as slaves. But Joseph, with his wife and her child had escaped the slaughter by fleeing into Egypt.

After a failed suicide attempt, which I believe may have been an option given to him by Caesar Augustus, in the spring of 4 BC, Herod the Great died, then in the spring of 3 B.C., after the death of Herod his father, when Antipas returned from Rome where his father’s will had been ratified by Augustus, he chose and rebuilt the magnificent city of Sepphoris as his capital city for ruling over Galilee.

The heavenly sign that heralded the birth of the Messiah was the triple conjunction in 6 BC of the "King Planet" Jupiter, with Mars, the god of war, and "Saturn the god of time, who brings the golden age of peace to the earth. Two years later in 4 BC, Herod the Great died after ordering that all the male children in the district where the family of Jesus was, who were born in 6 BC or since then, were to be slaughtered. The star that led the Magi to the child in Nazareth many months after the birth of the child Jesus, was the hairy star/comet of early 5 BC.

All short period comets which re-appear every two hundred years of less, have their aphellia in the orbit of Jupiter and even up until relatively recent times, those short period comets were thought to have been created from material ejected from the King Planet Jupiter and were called the family of Jupiter.

There is no evidence to support the belief that the Chinese reported comet of 5 BC, which was visible for 70 days, and was reported to have a tail, was a short period comet, it may even have been a extremely long period comet or one like the McNaught comet, which will never be seen again, that presumably passed close to Jupiter in the triple conjunction of 6 B.C. and in early 5 B.C. was seen by the Magi as the child having been born of the King Star, which had been united with Mars the warrior star and Saturn, which would have confirmed their belief that the triple conjunction of 6 B.C. was the heavenly sign that was prophesied to herald the birth of the great Messianic King who was to rule the whole world.

Luke neither says that Jesus was born in 4 B.C., or sometime in A.D. It is obvious even to a blind man, that Jesus was born in 6 B.C.

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

I am very sure that Josephus never affirmed the Death of the Innocents myth. His works have been abused by Christians, even though they really do not support their claims.

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

For the open minded.

Transcription
1 DATING THE CENSUS CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA AND HEROD's DEATH

2

3 DATING THE CENSUS, CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA, AND HEROD's DEATH CONTENTS 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? Page 1 2 SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? 3] 4] 5] The Homonadenses problem 2 WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS AND NOT VARUS? WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? DATING JESUS' BIRTH and HEROD'S DEATH. [Matthew chapter two]. QUIRINIUS AND THE FULLNESS OF TIME In the 19th century Sir William Mitchell Ramsay examined available evidence expecting to prove that Luke was not a reliable historian. However his extensive research convinced him that Luke was a meticulously reliable historian. His book on the subject Was Christ born at Bethlehem? is on the internet at THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION:...in those days..there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed1. (And this taxing2 was first3 made when Cyrenius 4 was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed 1, every one to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

to be taxed 5, with Mary his espoused wife 6 being great with child. Luke 2:1-5. KJV/AV CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which means: to be enrolled, to be registered. 2. "taxing" apografh, meaning: enrolment, registration. 3. "first" Greek proth, is superlative in degree - meaning: first of many, first of its kind. 4. Cyrenius' Roman name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius. 5. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai, meaning: to register himself. 6. "his espoused wife" is from amemnhsteumene autw gunaike - meaning: his betrothed woman. Betrothal was a binding engagement to be married. They were not yet married. WE KNOW THAT: This census/registration/enrolment did take place. Cyrenius was fulfilling a role in the province of Syria as Caesar Augustus' deputy. Critics question Luke 2:2 because the apparent absence of secular historical evidence actually stating that Cyrenius (i.e. Quirinius) was "governor" in Syria at that time. Sir William Mitchell Ramsay answers this in detail in chapter 10 of Was Christ born at Bethlehem? Much of the following information is gleaned from that chapter. 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS This was not a regular taxation. A taxation required only a proclamation to set it in motion. Luke is referring to an exceptional event, it was the first time a decree for enrolment of all Roman citizens and citizens of note in subject nations to be issued by Caesar Augustus himself. The following is Augustus' own account: Page 1

4 "during my sixth term as consul (BC.28), I, along with my comrade Marcus Agrippa, commanded a census to be taken of the people. I directed a lustrum, the first in forty-one years, in which 4,063,000 Roman citizens were counted. And once again, with imperial authority, I single handedly authorized a lustrum when the consuls of Rome were Gaius Censorinus and Gaius Asinius (BC.8), during which time 4,233,000 Roman citizens were counted." (Res Gestae 8 - The Deeds of Augustus by Augustus) [emphasis mine. EDITOR]. Ref: Lustrum see:- It would have taken a few years to implement and complete this. It was decreed in BC.8. and the completed set of documents, which registered the loyalty of Roman citizens and people of note in subject nations to Caesar Augustus, was presented to him in BC.3. It is significant that the very next year, BC.2, on February the 5th., whilst the empire celebrated his Silver Jubilee, he was awarded the people's declaration of loyalty: "Whilst I was administering my thirteenth consulship [BC.2] the Senate and the Equestrian Order and the entire Roman people gave me the title: Father of my Country (Res Gestae 35) [emphasis mine. EDITOR] This information could account for why both Joseph and Mary, being of the royal lineage of David and thus people of note, would be required to register their loyalty to Caesar. 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? "this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was a governor of Syria." Luke 2:2 Critics claim that there is no evidence that Cyrenius was governor of Syria at that time. CLARIFICATION "governor" (from: 'hgemwn) could refer to any official as Caesar's deputy. SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? The Homonadenses problem It is easy to jump to conclusions. Luke did not say: 1. Cyrenius had a role in Judea. That is not an issue in question here. 2. Cyrenius administered the taxation. That also is not an issue in question. He did say: 1. Augustus decreed a census of all the Roman domain (oikoumenhn). 2. It was the first of its kind. 3 During that time Cyrenius was carrying out a vicegerent role. What we know: 1. Quinctilus Varus was governor of Syria at that time. [BC.7 to 4] Page 2

5 2. About BC.6 the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, whilst Varus attended to the internal administration of Syria. In addition to the evidence given above: Inscribed on the Tibur, Tivoli Marble fragment ( circa AD.20) in the Vatican Museum of Christian Antiquities, are the deeds of a General who was twice: publicly decorated in triumph, hailed as the conqueror of a nation and governed Syria as Augustus' vicegerent twice. The name is indistinct. It has to be Quirinius. Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Palatina, who served in the camps of the divine Aug[ustus] under P. Sulpicius Quirinius, legate of Caesar in Syria, decorated with honorary distinctions, prefect of the 1st cohort Aug[usta], prefect of the cohort II Classica. Besides, by order of Quirinius I made the census in Apamea of citizens male 117 thousand. Besides, sent on mission by Quirinius, against the Itureans, on Mount Lebanon I took their citadel. And prior military service, (I was) Prefect of the workers, detached by two co[nsul]s at the aerarium [The State Treasury]. And in the colony, quaestor, aedile twice, duumvir twice, pontiff. Here were deposited Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Pal[atina], (my) s[on] and Aemilia Chia (my) freed. This m[onument] is excluded from the inh[eritance]. Tombstone of Q. Aemilius Secundus. Museo archeologico nazionale, Venice. WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS (Quirinius ) AND NOT VARUS? We don't know but it was because his presence in Syria was more notable than that of Varus whose role was confined to Syria's internal affairs. The timing of the census coincided with that of victorious battle against the Homonadenses from Syria, for which Quirinius received Augustus' second public triumphal decoration. Augustus held Quirinius in such high esteem that he later made Quirinius advisor to his grandson, Titus, governor of Armenia. By the time Luke wrote his account of the life of Christ, Quirinius was outstandingly famous For more on Quirinius see:historical EVIDENCE FOR QUIRINIUS, Page 3

6 3] WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION: (v.3)... everyone went to be taxed1, everyone to his own city.2 (v.4) and Joseph also went up3 from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

(v.5) to be taxed,4 with Mary his espoused wife5 she being great with child." Luke 2:3-5. KJV./AV. CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which really means:to enrol, to register. 2. "his own city" Greek idian polin, ones own town/city. 3. "went up" Greek anebh, is singular referring to Joseph. We are being told why Joseph had to go to Bethlehem 4. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai [*middle voice], meaning: to register *himself. 5. "his espoused wife" the Greek is th memnhsteumenh autw gunaiki - which means: "his betrothed woman." Betrothal was a binding contract that they would be married. It could only be broken if some sexual irregularity was discovered (Deuteronomy 24:1). The argument goes that there is no secular evidence that people had to return to their home town or that wives had to accompany them. Every criticism raised against Luke's credibility as a historian has been an argument from silence. In all other cases Luke has been shown to be correct. He should be given credence to be correct in this instance too. However there was an Egyptian Roman census document, dated AD.104, which required citizens to return to their original homes. Also in another Roman census document, dated AD.119, an Egyptian entered: his name; a scar above his left eyebrow; his age and profession; his original village; the names of his father, mother, and grandfather; his wife's name and age; his wife's father's name; his son's name and age; the names of other relatives living with him. This document is signed by the village registrar and three official witnesses. (Maier, Fullness, 4, II, 256f. from A. H. M. Jones, ed., A History of Rome through the Fifth Century - New York: Harper and Row, 1970 ) From Luke we learn the following: 1) Mary's own city was Nazareth. Her house was in Nazareth ( Luke 1:56), so she had to register in Nazareth Luke 1:56. ["everyone went to be taxed, everyone to his own city"]. She would be required to record all residents in her house* which might have included her younger sister (John 19:25). 2) Joseph went to his own city to register himself. [v.3 "everyone to his own city," v.4 "Joseph also," went to his own city, Luke 2:3-4]. His city was Bethlehem. 3) He took Mary with him "she being great with child." Luke 2:5 When Joseph and Mary travelled from Nazareth to Bethlehem they were still not married, They were betrothed ("espoused " Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:27, 2:5)., Now betrothed couples did not live together until marriage: So why did Mary go with Joseph? As soon as Mary learned she was going to have a child, she went to stay with her cousin, for three months, then returned her own house in Nazareth ( Luke 1:26-56). Then, learning about the child, Joseph, not wanting to expose Mary publicly, was thinking of breaking the betrothal contract privately (Deuteronomy 24:1). Whilst wrestling with this problem an angel told him that the child had been conceived of the Holy Spirit and that he must take Mary to be his wife (Matthew 1:18 ff.). Page 4

To be continued.

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

Continued...…

Transcription
1 DATING THE CENSUS CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA AND HEROD's DEATH

2

3 DATING THE CENSUS, CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA, AND HEROD's DEATH CONTENTS 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? Page 1 2 SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? 3] 4] 5] The Homonadenses problem 2 WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS AND NOT VARUS? WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? DATING JESUS' BIRTH and HEROD'S DEATH. [Matthew chapter two]. QUIRINIUS AND THE FULLNESS OF TIME In the 19th century Sir William Mitchell Ramsay examined available evidence expecting to prove that Luke was not a reliable historian. However his extensive research convinced him that Luke was a meticulously reliable historian. His book on the subject Was Christ born at Bethlehem? is on the internet at THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION:...in those days..there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed1. (And this taxing2 was first3 made when Cyrenius 4 was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed 1, every one to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

to be taxed 5, with Mary his espoused wife 6 being great with child. Luke 2:1-5. KJV/AV CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which means: to be enrolled, to be registered. 2. "taxing" apografh, meaning: enrolment, registration. 3. "first" Greek proth, is superlative in degree - meaning: first of many, first of its kind. 4. Cyrenius' Roman name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius. 5. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai, meaning: to register himself. 6. "his espoused wife" is from amemnhsteumene autw gunaike - meaning: his betrothed woman. Betrothal was a binding engagement to be married. They were not yet married. WE KNOW THAT: This census/registration/enrolment did take place. Cyrenius was fulfilling a role in the province of Syria as Caesar Augustus' deputy. Critics question Luke 2:2 because the apparent absence of secular historical evidence actually stating that Cyrenius (i.e. Quirinius) was "governor" in Syria at that time. Sir William Mitchell Ramsay answers this in detail in chapter 10 of Was Christ born at Bethlehem? Much of the following information is gleaned from that chapter. 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS This was not a regular taxation. A taxation required only a proclamation to set it in motion. Luke is referring to an exceptional event, it was the first time a decree for enrolment of all Roman citizens and citizens of note in subject nations to be issued by Caesar Augustus himself. The following is Augustus' own account: Page 1

4 "during my sixth term as consul (BC.28), I, along with my comrade Marcus Agrippa, commanded a census to be taken of the people. I directed a lustrum, the first in forty-one years, in which 4,063,000 Roman citizens were counted. And once again, with imperial authority, I single handedly authorized a lustrum when the consuls of Rome were Gaius Censorinus and Gaius Asinius (BC.8), during which time 4,233,000 Roman citizens were counted." (Res Gestae 8 - The Deeds of Augustus by Augustus) [emphasis mine. EDITOR]. Ref: Lustrum see:- It would have taken a few years to implement and complete this. It was decreed in BC.8. and the completed set of documents, which registered the loyalty of Roman citizens and people of note in subject nations to Caesar Augustus, was presented to him in BC.3. It is significant that the very next year, BC.2, on February the 5th., whilst the empire celebrated his Silver Jubilee, he was awarded the people's declaration of loyalty: "Whilst I was administering my thirteenth consulship [BC.2] the Senate and the Equestrian Order and the entire Roman people gave me the title: Father of my Country (Res Gestae 35) [emphasis mine. EDITOR] This information could account for why both Joseph and Mary, being of the royal lineage of David and thus people of note, would be required to register their loyalty to Caesar. 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? "this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was a governor of Syria." Luke 2:2 Critics claim that there is no evidence that Cyrenius was governor of Syria at that time. CLARIFICATION "governor" (from: 'hgemwn) could refer to any official as Caesar's deputy. SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? The Homonadenses problem It is easy to jump to conclusions. Luke did not say: 1. Cyrenius had a role in Judea. That is not an issue in question here. 2. Cyrenius administered the taxation. That also is not an issue in question. He did say: 1. Augustus decreed a census of all the Roman domain (oikoumenhn). 2. It was the first of its kind. 3 During that time Cyrenius was carrying out a vicegerent role. What we know: 1. Quinctilus Varus was governor of Syria at that time. [BC.7 to 4] Page 2

5 2. About BC.6 the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, whilst Varus attended to the internal administration of Syria. In addition to the evidence given above: Inscribed on the Tibur, Tivoli Marble fragment ( circa AD.20) in the Vatican Museum of Christian Antiquities, are the deeds of a General who was twice: publicly decorated in triumph, hailed as the conqueror of a nation and governed Syria as Augustus' vicegerent twice. The name is indistinct. It has to be Quirinius. Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Palatina, who served in the camps of the divine Aug[ustus] under P. Sulpicius Quirinius, legate of Caesar in Syria, decorated with honorary distinctions, prefect of the 1st cohort Aug[usta], prefect of the cohort II Classica. Besides, by order of Quirinius I made the census in Apamea of citizens male 117 thousand. Besides, sent on mission by Quirinius, against the Itureans, on Mount Lebanon I took their citadel. And prior military service, (I was) Prefect of the workers, detached by two co[nsul]s at the aerarium [The State Treasury]. And in the colony, quaestor, aedile twice, duumvir twice, pontiff. Here were deposited Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Pal[atina], (my) s[on] and Aemilia Chia (my) freed. This m[onument] is excluded from the inh[eritance]. Tombstone of Q. Aemilius Secundus. Museo archeologico nazionale, Venice. WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS (Quirinius ) AND NOT VARUS? We don't know but it was because his presence in Syria was more notable than that of Varus whose role was confined to Syria's internal affairs. The timing of the census coincided with that of victorious battle against the Homonadenses from Syria, for which Quirinius received Augustus' second public triumphal decoration. Augustus held Quirinius in such high esteem that he later made Quirinius advisor to his grandson, Titus, governor of Armenia. By the time Luke wrote his account of the life of Christ, Quirinius was outstandingly famous For more on Quirinius see:historical EVIDENCE FOR QUIRINIUS, Page 3

6 3] WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION: (v.3)... everyone went to be taxed1, everyone to his own city.2 (v.4) and Joseph also went up3 from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David

(v.5) to be taxed,4 with Mary his espoused wife5 she being great with child." Luke 2:3-5. KJV./AV. CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which really means:to enrol, to register. 2. "his own city" Greek idian polin, ones own town/city. 3. "went up" Greek anebh, is singular referring to Joseph. We are being told why Joseph had to go to Bethlehem 4. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai [*middle voice], meaning: to register *himself. 5. "his espoused wife" the Greek is th memnhsteumenh autw gunaiki - which means: "his betrothed woman." Betrothal was a binding contract that they would be married. It could only be broken if some sexual irregularity was discovered (Deuteronomy 24:1). The argument goes that there is no secular evidence that people had to return to their home town or that wives had to accompany them. Every criticism raised against Luke's credibility as a historian has been an argument from silence. In all other cases Luke has been shown to be correct. He should be given credence to be correct in this instance too. However there was an Egyptian Roman census document, dated AD.104, which required citizens to return to their original homes. Also in another Roman census document, dated AD.119, an Egyptian entered: his name; a scar above his left eyebrow; his age and profession; his original village; the names of his father, mother, and grandfather; his wife's name and age; his wife's father's name; his son's name and age; the names of other relatives living with him. This document is signed by the village registrar and three official witnesses. (Maier, Fullness, 4, II, 256f. from A. H. M. Jones, ed., A History of Rome through the Fifth Century - New York: Harper and Row, 1970 ) From Luke we learn the following: 1) Mary's own city was Nazareth. Her house was in Nazareth ( Luke 1:56), so she had to register in Nazareth Luke 1:56. ["everyone went to be taxed, everyone to his own city"]. She would be required to record all residents in her house* which might have included her younger sister (John 19:25). 2) Joseph went to his own city to register himself. [v.3 "everyone to his own city," v.4 "Joseph also," went to his own city, Luke 2:3-4]. His city was Bethlehem. 3) He took Mary with him "she being great with child." Luke 2:5 When Joseph and Mary travelled from Nazareth to Bethlehem they were still not married, They were betrothed ("espoused " Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:27, 2:5)., Now betrothed couples did not live together until marriage: So why did Mary go with Joseph? As soon as Mary learned she was going to have a child, she went to stay with her cousin, for three months, then returned her own house in Nazareth ( Luke 1:26-56). Then, learning about the child, Joseph, not wanting to expose Mary publicly, was thinking of breaking the betrothal contract privately (Deuteronomy 24:1). Whilst wrestling with this problem an angel told him that the child had been conceived of the Holy Spirit and that he must take Mary to be his wife (Matthew 1:18 ff.). Page 4

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
Continued...…

Transcription
1 DATING THE CENSUS CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA AND HEROD's DEATH

7 Joseph's dilemma was threefold: 1) He had to go to Bethlehem to register. 2) He is honour bound to obey the angel's request that he takes her to be his wife. 3) Also, Mary's pregnancy being well advanced, leaving her behind in her own house in Nazareth, might have been, to say the least, difficult for her. This 3rd. reason is evident in the original text, especially when the verse division is ignored. Book titles chapter and verse divisions were not in the original uncial Greek text. They have been added by editors. The verse 5 division is misleading because it makes it appear that Mary went with Joseph so that she also could be registered. Whereas the Greek verb "to be taxed" (apograyasqai) in verse 5 is infinitive middle voice (reflexive), meaning "toregister-himself." It is saying that he went in order to register himself, and took Mary with him. It is not saying she went for the purpose of registering in Bethlehem. Verses 4 and 5 flow better if verse break is ignored and is punctuated like this: "... Joseph... went-himself... to... Bethlehem... to register-himself, with Mary... she being great with child." So the pressing reason why he took Mary with him was that she was "great with child." 4] DATING JESUS' BIRTH and HEROD'S DEATH. [Matthew chapter two] Herod the Great's death is dated by Ussher as 25th. of November BC.4.1 Kenneth Frank Doig reasons that Herod died on the 27th. of November BC.4. 2 [It will help to compare the following with the chart: "From HEROD THE GREAT to HEROD AGRIPPA"] WAS JESUS BORN IN BC.5? Tiberius became Augustus' viceroy in AD.12 (61971). In Tiberius 15th. year (AD.26) Jesus was baptised. He had turned 30 (Luke 3:1,23). So Jesus was born in BC.5. Herod the Great began the temple reconstruction in BC years later Jesus was 30 years old (John 2:20). So it means again that Jesus was born in BC.5. DOES THE CLAIM THAT HEROD DIED IN BC.4 PRESENT A PROBLEM? Does it allow enough time for all the activities between Jesus birth and Herod's death? There would have been at least a year between Jesus' birth in BC.5 and Herod's death. This is ample time for: the visit of the wise men, the slaughter of the children, the family's flight into Egypt and Herod's various activities to have happened. So there is no problem. REFERENCES: 1. "Annals of The World" translated by Larry and Marrion Pierce 6082, ISBN "New Testament Chronology" Kenneth Frank Doig, "Exact Dating of the Birth and Crucifixion of Jesus." chapter 4. Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen Press, Doig goes into great detail, presents many evidences and is well referenced. This chapter can be read on line: _ This question has been raised: Why is it that "early church historians Tertullian, Origen and Eusibius all held that Christ was born in 2 BC. and that Herod died the following year in 1 BC."? Tertullian (AD /35) Origen (AD.184/5-253/4) and Eusebius (260/5-339/40) lived long after Jesus' birth and would have to rely on second generation hearsay. Whereas Josephus (AD.37 to 100) was much better placed. Taken captive during the siege of Jerusalem, he became Vespasian's servant, was granted Roman citizenship, adopted Augustus' family name (Flavious) and appointed advisor to the emperor's son (Titus). So He would have ready access to state records and his publications would be subject to peer criticism. Page 5

8 QUIRINIUS AND THE FULLNESS OF TIME. [Galatians 4:4] When the Jesus was born, a system of military roads was in process of being constructed and garrisons established throughout the Caesar Augustus' empire. This was making safer routes for travellers and trade. However work on the passes through the Taurus mountains, from northern to southern territories, was obstructed by the Homonadenses. They had conquered the Roman client nation, killed their king (Amyntas) and taken control of his mountain kingdom. So travelling through the passes to the north of Perga and Tarsus was extremely dangerous. The 483rd. of the 490 years prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27 was approaching. The Jewish nation were expecting the imminent arrival of the Messiah. He would confirm a new covenant with "the many", that is, not only with the Jews but also with the Gentiles ( v.27, Galatians 3:8, Genesis 22:18, Acts 11:18). Would the Taurus pass situation improve before the messengers tried to take the good news of the Messiah' into Asia Minor and beyond? Just before Jesus' birth, Augustus' favourite general, Quirinius, mounted a military campaign from Syria, conquered the Homonadenses and regained the territory for the Romans (circa BC.6). This enabled military roads to be constructed and garrisons to be set up in the years that followed in the Taurus mountain region. This enabled traders and travellers to traverse the Taurus passes. So, by the time the apostle Paul set out on his missionary journeys taking the covenant to the gentiles, they would have been completed, enabling Paul and his companions to go through these passes in relative safety. He went north from Perga to Antioch in Pisidia on his first journey ( Acts 13:13 ff.). On his second journey (Acts 15:35 ff.) Following the coastal route from Antioch in Syria he was able to go north along the Via Sebaste pass through Cilician gates and follow the road to Derbe and Lystra. He continued to the port at Troas ( Acts 16:1&8 ff.) then sailed across the strait. taking the gospel, into Europe (Acts 16:8 ff. Romans 15:16). Copyright March 2015: Simply Christians - Longford Reg. charity no May be copied as is. Not to be sold for profit. Copyright to be acknowledged. Printed by easiprint. Page 6

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
For the open minded.

Transcription
1 DATING THE CENSUS CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA AND HEROD's DEATH

2

3 DATING THE CENSUS, CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA, AND HEROD's DEATH CONTENTS 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? Page 1 2 SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? 3] 4] 5] The Homonadenses problem 2 WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS AND NOT VARUS? WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? DATING JESUS' BIRTH and HEROD'S DEATH. [Matthew chapter two]. QUIRINIUS AND THE FULLNESS OF TIME In the 19th century Sir William Mitchell Ramsay examined available evidence expecting to prove that Luke was not a reliable historian. However his extensive research convinced him that Luke was a meticulously reliable historian. His book on the subject Was Christ born at Bethlehem? is on the internet at THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION:...in those days..there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed1. (And this taxing2 was first3 made when Cyrenius 4 was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed 1, every one to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David to be taxed 5, with Mary his espoused wife 6 being great with child. Luke 2:1-5. KJV/AV CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which means: to be enrolled, to be registered. 2. "taxing" apografh, meaning: enrolment, registration. 3. "first" Greek proth, is superlative in degree - meaning: first of many, first of its kind. 4. Cyrenius' Roman name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius. 5. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai, meaning: to register himself. 6. "his espoused wife" is from amemnhsteumene autw gunaike - meaning: his betrothed woman. Betrothal was a binding engagement to be married. They were not yet married. WE KNOW THAT: This census/registration/enrolment did take place. Cyrenius was fulfilling a role in the province of Syria as Caesar Augustus' deputy. Critics question Luke 2:2 because the apparent absence of secular historical evidence actually stating that Cyrenius (i.e. Quirinius) was "governor" in Syria at that time. Sir William Mitchell Ramsay answers this in detail in chapter 10 of Was Christ born at Bethlehem? Much of the following information is gleaned from that chapter. 1] AUGUSTUS' EXTRAORDINARY CENSUS This was not a regular taxation. A taxation required only a proclamation to set it in motion. Luke is referring to an exceptional event, it was the first time a decree for enrolment of all Roman citizens and citizens of note in subject nations to be issued by Caesar Augustus himself. The following is Augustus' own account: Page 1

4 "during my sixth term as consul (BC.28), I, along with my comrade Marcus Agrippa, commanded a census to be taken of the people. I directed a lustrum, the first in forty-one years, in which 4,063,000 Roman citizens were counted. And once again, with imperial authority, I single handedly authorized a lustrum when the consuls of Rome were Gaius Censorinus and Gaius Asinius (BC.8), during which time 4,233,000 Roman citizens were counted." (Res Gestae 8 - The Deeds of Augustus by Augustus) [emphasis mine. EDITOR]. Ref: Lustrum see:- It would have taken a few years to implement and complete this. It was decreed in BC.8. and the completed set of documents, which registered the loyalty of Roman citizens and people of note in subject nations to Caesar Augustus, was presented to him in BC.3. It is significant that the very next year, BC.2, on February the 5th., whilst the empire celebrated his Silver Jubilee, he was awarded the people's declaration of loyalty: "Whilst I was administering my thirteenth consulship [BC.2] the Senate and the Equestrian Order and the entire Roman people gave me the title: Father of my Country (Res Gestae 35) [emphasis mine. EDITOR] This information could account for why both Joseph and Mary, being of the royal lineage of David and thus people of note, would be required to register their loyalty to Caesar. 2] WAS CYRENIUS (i.e. QUIRINIUS) A GOVERNOR IN SYRIA AT THIS TIME? "this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was a governor of Syria." Luke 2:2 Critics claim that there is no evidence that Cyrenius was governor of Syria at that time. CLARIFICATION "governor" (from: 'hgemwn) could refer to any official as Caesar's deputy. SO WHAT WAS CYRENIUS DOING IN SYRIA? The Homonadenses problem It is easy to jump to conclusions. Luke did not say: 1. Cyrenius had a role in Judea. That is not an issue in question here. 2. Cyrenius administered the taxation. That also is not an issue in question. He did say: 1. Augustus decreed a census of all the Roman domain (oikoumenhn). 2. It was the first of its kind. 3 During that time Cyrenius was carrying out a vicegerent role. What we know: 1. Quinctilus Varus was governor of Syria at that time. [BC.7 to 4] Page 2

5 2. About BC.6 the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, whilst Varus attended to the internal administration of Syria. In addition to the evidence given above: Inscribed on the Tibur, Tivoli Marble fragment ( circa AD.20) in the Vatican Museum of Christian Antiquities, are the deeds of a General who was twice: publicly decorated in triumph, hailed as the conqueror of a nation and governed Syria as Augustus' vicegerent twice. The name is indistinct. It has to be Quirinius. Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Palatina, who served in the camps of the divine Aug[ustus] under P. Sulpicius Quirinius, legate of Caesar in Syria, decorated with honorary distinctions, prefect of the 1st cohort Aug[usta], prefect of the cohort II Classica. Besides, by order of Quirinius I made the census in Apamea of citizens male 117 thousand. Besides, sent on mission by Quirinius, against the Itureans, on Mount Lebanon I took their citadel. And prior military service, (I was) Prefect of the workers, detached by two co[nsul]s at the aerarium [The State Treasury]. And in the colony, quaestor, aedile twice, duumvir twice, pontiff. Here were deposited Q[uintus] Aemilius Secundus s[on] of Q[uintus], of the tribe Pal[atina], (my) s[on] and Aemilia Chia (my) freed. This m[onument] is excluded from the inh[eritance]. Tombstone of Q. Aemilius Secundus. Museo archeologico nazionale, Venice. WHY DOES LUKE MENTION CYRENIUS (Quirinius ) AND NOT VARUS? We don't know but it was because his presence in Syria was more notable than that of Varus whose role was confined to Syria's internal affairs. The timing of the census coincided with that of victorious battle against the Homonadenses from Syria, for which Quirinius received Augustus' second public triumphal decoration. Augustus held Quirinius in such high esteem that he later made Quirinius advisor to his grandson, Titus, governor of Armenia. By the time Luke wrote his account of the life of Christ, Quirinius was outstandingly famous For more on Quirinius see:historical EVIDENCE FOR QUIRINIUS, Page 3

6 3] WHY DID JOSEPH TAKE MARY WITH HIM TO BETHLEHEM? THE PASSAGE IN QUESTION: (v.3)... everyone went to be taxed1, everyone to his own city.2 (v.4) and Joseph also went up3 from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David (v.5) to be taxed,4 with Mary his espoused wife5 she being great with child." Luke 2:3-5. KJV./AV. CLARIFICATIONS 1. "taxed" Greek apografesqai, which really means:to enrol, to register. 2. "his own city" Greek idian polin, ones own town/city. 3. "went up" Greek anebh, is singular referring to Joseph. We are being told why Joseph had to go to Bethlehem 4. "taxed" Greek apograyasqai [*middle voice], meaning: to register *himself. 5. "his espoused wife" the Greek is th memnhsteumenh autw gunaiki - which means: "his betrothed woman." Betrothal was a binding contract that they would be married. It could only be broken if some sexual irregularity was discovered (Deuteronomy 24:1). The argument goes that there is no secular evidence that people had to return to their home town or that wives had to accompany them. Every criticism raised against Luke's credibility as a historian has been an argument from silence. In all other cases Luke has been shown to be correct. He should be given credence to be correct in this instance too. However there was an Egyptian Roman census document, dated AD.104, which required citizens to return to their original homes. Also in another Roman census document, dated AD.119, an Egyptian entered: his name; a scar above his left eyebrow; his age and profession; his original village; the names of his father, mother, and grandfather; his wife's name and age; his wife's father's name; his son's name and age; the names of other relatives living with him. This document is signed by the village registrar and three official witnesses. (Maier, Fullness, 4, II, 256f. from A. H. M. Jones, ed., A History of Rome through the Fifth Century - New York: Harper and Row, 1970 ) From Luke we learn the following: 1) Mary's own city was Nazareth. Her house was in Nazareth ( Luke 1:56), so she had to register in Nazareth Luke 1:56. ["everyone went to be taxed, everyone to his own city"]. She would be required to record all residents in her house* which might have included her younger sister (John 19:25). 2) Joseph went to his own city to register himself. [v.3 "everyone to his own city," v.4 "Joseph also," went to his own city, Luke 2:3-4]. His city was Bethlehem. 3) He took Mary with him "she being great with child." Luke 2:5 When Joseph and Mary travelled from Nazareth to Bethlehem they were still not married, They were betrothed ("espoused " Matthew 1:18, Luke 1:27, 2:5)., Now betrothed couples did not live together until marriage: So why did Mary go with Joseph? As soon as Mary learned she was going to have a child, she went to stay with her cousin, for three months, then returned her own house in Nazareth ( Luke 1:26-56). Then, learning about the child, Joseph, not wanting to expose Mary publicly, was thinking of breaking the betrothal contract privately (Deuteronomy 24:1). Whilst wrestling with this problem an angel told him that the child had been conceived of the Holy Spirit and that he must take Mary to be his wife (Matthew 1:18 ff.). Page 4

To be continued.

Oh my!! Unsupported nonsense from a false source and he says "for the open minded". There goes another irony meter.

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

Meanwhile in the real world:

Census of Quirinius - Wikipedia

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
Oh my!! Unsupported nonsense from a false source and he says "for the open minded". There goes another irony meter.

We will leave to the open minded people on this forum to judge whether the above is a false source or not.
It is no good relying on a godless one who believes that everything that supports the scriptures, is either myth or false.

The Anointed · Oct 2, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
Meanwhile in the real world:

Census of Quirinius - Wikipedia

Wikipedia? The real world??? I am glad that you quote, that which is recorded in Wikipeda as being of the real world.

I must file that way to use in further discussions with you.

BTW, the open minded people will have read number 7 of the Transcription
1 DATING THE CENSUS CYRENIUS /QUIRINIUS IN SYRIA AND HEROD's DEATH

Revealing why Mary, the daughter of Alexander Helios III who is a descendant of Nathan, an older half-brother of Solomon, who was the first and only child of the union between King David and Bathsheba who survived. Nathan the ancestor of Mary was the priest who was adopted by King David.

The Talmud states, "Whoever brings up an orphan in his home is regarded...as though the child had been born to him." (Sanhedrin 119b).” In other words, the adopted child is to be treated as a child born to the father of that house, which means, that Heli and his descendants, who were born from the genetic line of Nathan ‘the prophet,’ who was the adopted son of King David, were legitimate heirs to King David, but not to the throne of Israel, as the prophesied Messiah had to come through the genetic line of Solomon.

Heli and his descendants only became heirs to the throne of David, through Nathan the adopted son of King David, when Naria, a descendant of Nathan, married Tamar, a female descendant of King Solomon, who bore to Naria a son by the name “Salathiel.”

After the death of Naria, Tamar was taken to wife by King Jehoiachin, whose only son with Tamar, was Zedekiah who died prematurely in Childhood.

According to Torah law, Nathan the adopted son of King David and his descendants, were legitimate heirs of King David, but not in the ancestral line of the promised Messiah, who was to be born of the seed of Solomon, until Naria the descendant of Nathan coupled with Tamah the descendant of Solomon, to produce Salathiel the ancestor of Jesus, who has been made High Priest (From the tribe of Levi=Nathan) and King (From the tribe of Judah=Solomon) in the order of Melchizedek.

David Hughes the noted Genealogist of the Ancient World Lineages, states that King Jeconiah’s only son, with Queen Tamar, ‘Prince Zedekiah,’ died prematurely in childhood, and in 586 BCE King Zedekiah, the last king of Israel, whose original name Mattaniah, was the son of Josiah and the uncle of Jehoiachin. King Zedekiah/Mattaniah, was taken prisoner and his sons were executed in front of him, after which, his eyes were gouged out, and there in Babylon, he remained blinded in exile for the rest of his life and it appeared that the entire royal lineage of King David through God’s chosen son, Solomon, had been exterminated.

With all the known direct lineages of male heirs to the lineage of King Solomon, the son of King David and Bathsheba now extinct, Queen Tamar II became the dynastic heiress preserving not only the Lineage of King Solomon, but also became the inter-dynastic link, or the vital crossover heiress merging the non-royal Nathan lineage with the royal lineages of King Solomon. With the addition of Tamar representing the mainline descendants of King David, we now can understand the linkage between the two prime royal and non-royal lineages to the ancestry of the Jewish Messiah Yehoshua ben Yosef (Jesus son of Joseph the son of Alexander Helios a descendant of Nathan).

Jesus carried in his genes the potent fusion of Davidian and Zadokian bloodlines. He carried the potent bloodline of the royal mantle as a Priest-King of Israel and the messianic mantle as the Maschiach Yisra’el (Messiah of Israel) of the House of David.

Hebrew 5: 10; “And God declared him (Jesus) to be high priest according to the priestly order of Melchizedek.” Melchizedek held the titles of both King and high priest. Hebrew 5: 5; “In the same way, Christ did not take upon himself the honor of being high priest. Instead, God said to him, ‘You are my Son; TODAY I have become your Father.’”

Subduction Zone · Oct 2, 2018

The Anointed said:
We will leave to the open minded people on this forum to judge whether the above is a false source or not.
It is no good relying on a godless one who believes that everything that supports the scriptures, is either myth or false.

You did not even link it. Your own Bible says that the census was the Census of Quirinius. The one held in 6 AD. Luke blew it baby.

The Anointed · Oct 3, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
You did not even link it. Your own Bible says that the census was the Census of Quirinius. The one held in 6 AD. Luke blew it baby.

You really are incapable of comprehending anything that you read, aren't you?

Luke 2: 1; In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled.
Whose census was it? It was the census of Augustus! Not the Census of Quirinius as you have erroneously stated.

When was that census of Augustus, which was started in 8 B.C., completed?
It was completed in 3 B.C. Jesus was born in 6 B.C.

"governor" (from: 'hgemwn) can also refer to any official as Caesar's deputy.

Had you bothered to read the factual source that I produced you would have noticed that "About 6 B.C., the year in which Jesus was born, the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, "Governor," in Syria.

Subduction Zone · Oct 3, 2018

I am always glad to lend a hand. Here is a link to quite a few different translations. They all say the same thing about that census, you know, the one in 6 AD:

Luke 2:2 This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

The Anointed · Oct 3, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
I am not the ignorant one here. Why did you stop there? Read the next verse after Luke 2 1.

A proper Christian would put some value on the Ninth Commandment. It must annoy you that an atheist is a better "Christian" than you are.

Luke 2: 1; In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled.
Whose census was it? It was the census of Augustus! Not the Census of Quirinius as you have erroneously stated.

When was that census of Augustus, which was started in 8 B.C., completed?
It was completed in 3 B.C. Jesus was born in 6 B.C.

When did that Census begin? Luke 2:2; When Quirinius was governing in Syria.

The census was not taken by Quirinius or under Quirinius, but it was taken when Quirinius was governing in Syria.

"governor" (from: 'hgemwn) can also refer to any official as Caesar's deputy.

Had you bothered to read the factual source that I produced you would have noticed that "About 6 B.C., the year in which Jesus was born, the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, "Governor," in Syria.

Subduction Zone · Oct 3, 2018

The Anointed said:
Luke 2: 1; In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled.
Whose census was it? It was the census of Augustus! Not the Census of Quirinius as you have erroneously stated.

When was that census of Augustus, which was started in 8 B.C., completed?
It was completed in 3 B.C. Jesus was born in 6 B.C.

When did that Census begin? Luke 2:2; When Quirinius was a governor in Syria.

"governor" (from: 'hgemwn) can also refer to any official as Caesar's deputy.

Had you bothered to read the factual source that I produced you would have noticed that "About 6 B.C., the year in which Jesus was born, the Governors of Galatia and Syria were involved in the construction of a system of military roads and garrison cities. 3. They had a major problem. The Homonadenses tribe had taken control of a Roman client nation located in the Taurus mountains which traversed the centre of these operations. 4. Syria and Galatia would normally be required to intervene but Galatia had no army and Varus had no military experience. So what happened? 5. Quirinius was a general and famous for having quelled the Marmaridea rebellion in Cilicia (Libya) in BC.14 (see the attached maps). 6 Quirinius was the one who conquered the Homonadenses nation [ The Geography of Strabo]. This campaign had to have been implemented from Syria (see the maps). It necessarily follows that BC 6-5 General Quirinius dealt with the Homonadenses situation as Augustus' vicegerent, "Governor," in Syria.

Your sources are not "factual". They are fictional. Even apologists admit that this is a huge problem and come up with all sorts of lies that they try to explain away the fact that there is a huge error in Luke.

Subduction Zone · Oct 3, 2018

And if you understood Roman history you would have know why there were no census under Herod. Do you know why?

The Anointed · Oct 3, 2018

Subduction Zone said:
And if you understood Roman history you would have know why there were no census under Herod. Do you know why?

I understand Roman history mate, and I know that Caesar Augustus ordered a census of the entire Roman empire in 8 B.C while Quirinius was governing in Syria and was completed in 3 B.C., a year after the death of Herod the Great.

But you go ahead and reveal to all, why you believe that there was no census, while Herod ruled in Judea, and open another door for me..

Updating the Genesis Creation Story

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