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Intelligent life on other planets?

Smoke

Done here.
cardero said:
One of the reasons I state that it is of intelligent intervention, is that if the extraordinary visitations as explained in the Bible are to be believed, they seem to mirror our current UFO phenomenon.
I think it's very likely that encounters with aliens are the same type of phenomena as encounters with angels and demons. However, I'm inclined to think these are psychological phenomena, and not objective encounters.

As for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, I can't think of any good reason why it shouldn't exist, or any good reason why we should know anything about it. It's probably out there somewhere, but the chances of an encounter in any of our lifetimes seems virtually nil.

This is as good a place as any to trot out one of my favorite Dave Barry quotes:
"We know there are alien beings out there, because we see them every week on Star Trek; they look sort of like human beings, but they wear huge quantities of makeup."
:D
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
sandy whitelinger said:
The only hitch in your well thought out response is that it is not an "Unidentified" Flying Object. The Bible identifies it very clearly. It's a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night.

The Biblical authors describe it in terms of ideas and concepts that were only present during their lifetime. There is an advantage that this primitive culture has over our modern society. The advantage is that there were not many objects competing in their skies that could confuse the phenomenon. Balloons, flares, fireworks, helicopters, passenger planes, jets could not be misidentified during this period because this technology had not existed yet. There is also a disadvantage but it is one that could easily be shared with our current society. This disadvantage could possibly come in the form of superstition, ignorance and gullibility. Though I am very skeptical of the Bible's description that the beings operating this craft were God or the Lord or even angels of God, I completely understand why any society that confronts this phenomenon could easily be swayed by the technologic advances and awesome spectacle that these crafts display and believe anything the occupants proclaim if for no other reason than uncertainty. In this sense, I do not blame our primitive ancestors.

I also want to clarify the term UFO. UFO stands for unidentified flying object. Does this mean that all UFO’s are extraterrestrial spaceships with alien beings that drive chariots for God? No, it is just a term to classify an object that behaves in a way that cannot be described to anything that is identifiable. If planes were abundant and operating in the skies during Moses lifetime, I am sure that Moses and his people would recognize the behavior of these craft to discern a difference. This would make it an IFO (Identified Flying Object). I don’t believe there were too many flying pillars of light or flying clouds during this period for Moses to take the phenomenon for granted. If there are any doubts that this object was not some sort of vehicle, reread the passages of the Bible from Exodus to Numbers and tell me if this object behaves like natural clouds.

We also have the same concerns with the phenomenon today. Eyewitnesses who see an Unidentified Flying Object usually grasp for comparable images to describe their encounters. They will use descriptions like boomerang shaped, V-shaped, diamond shaped, cigar shaped, the shape of a cross, a needle, two inverted pie plates, bowls, a hubcap or a glowing orb.



From Wikipedia
On June 24, 1947, Arnold said he saw nine unusual objects flying in a chain near Mount Rainier, Washington while he was searching for a missing military aircraft in his CallAir A-2. He described the objects as almost blindingly bright when they reflected the sun's rays, their flight as "erratic" ("like the tail of a Chinese kite"), and flying at "tremendous speed". Arnold's story was widely carried by the Associated Press and other news outlets, and is usually credited as the catalyst for modern UFO interest, though many less-publicized UFO incidents preceded it.

Shortly after his sighting Arnold landed in Yakima, Washington, where he made a routine report to a Civil Aeronautics Administration representative. When he stopped on his way back to Boise to refuel in Pendleton, Oregon, he repeated his story to a group of curious listeners which included a newspaper reporter. Several years later, Arnold claimed he told the reporter that "they flew erratic, like a saucer if you skip it across the water" and (by some misquotations by the press) that was how the term "flying saucer" was born. Another commonly used term to describe the objects arising from the Arnold sighting was "flying disks" (or "discs"). Arnold felt that he had been misquoted since the description referred to the objects' motion rather than their shape.

In this example, Kenneth Arnold describes his encounter with nine unusual flying objects as “like the tail of a Chinese kite” and describes their erratic flight “like a saucer if you skip it across the water”. An experienced aviator like Kenneth Arnold would have been able to identify the sighting in terms of commonly known aircraft had they behaved or looked like commonly known aircraft.


Isaiah 60:8
8:Who are these that fly like a cloud, and like doves to their windows?

In the New Testament during the baptism account of Jesus, a similar phenomenon happens. Many researchers have compared this to the same phenomenon that Moses and Elijah encountered in the Old Testament. I have provided three authors accounts for your inspection.

Mark 1:10
10 And immediately on coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being parted, and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him;

Matthew 3:16
16 After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”

Luke 3:21
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized and, as he was praying, the heaven was opened up 22 and the holy spirit in bodily shape like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”


Many Biblical painters have artistically displayed this as an actual dove but the scriptures clearly point out that this “spirit” descended “like a dove”. It is important to notice here that the comparison is not between the way a cloud and dove appear in physical shape but between the ways they fly. This may have been the only description available to the New Testament authors to describe this encounter. The comparison to the way that the “Spirit of God” descended upon the tent to Moses and his followers should also be evaluated.

Also I wanted to thank you for reconsidering my position.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
MidnightBlue said:
I think it's very likely that encounters with aliens are the same type of phenomena as encounters with angels and demons. However, I'm inclined to think these are psychological phenomena, and not objective encounters.


I am also trying to keep an open mind about this aspect of the phenomenon but the physical evidence that keeps accumulating keeps shutting the door.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
"I think it's very likely that encounters with aliens are the same type of phenomena as encounters with angels and demons.
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"


Really, have you had any?
 

Smoke

Done here.
wanderer085 said:
"I think it's very likely that encounters with aliens are the same type of phenomena as encounters with angels and demons. "
No, but there are enough similarities to make me think they're the same kind of psychological phenomena, interpreted in the light of each person's belief system.
 

Simon Gnosis

Active Member
Ryan2065 said:
Scientology does... the only one I know of that talks about life on other planets...

Neo Gnosticsm also...

In fact given that one of the primary doctrines of the Neo Gnostic principle states 'That scientific questions require scientific answers' practically guarantees intelligent life everywhere throughout the cosmos.

A Neo Gnostic percieves that our world is but one of many, as does the scientist.
 

Simon Gnosis

Active Member
MidnightBlue said:
No, but there are enough similarities to make me think they're the same kind of psychological phenomena, interpreted in the light of each person's belief system.

The difference between an alien and an angel/demon is probably for all practical intents and purposes irrelevant.

'Advanced technologies can be indistinguishable from Magic'
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
cardero said:
The Biblical authors describe it in terms of ideas and concepts that were only present during their lifetime.

There are suppositions on your part. One, that the pillar of fire and the pillar of smoke were something other than a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke. The second supposition is that they could not have come up with a better visual description of a spacecraft even using their primitive and limited understanding:)sarcastic ).
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
sandy whitelinger said:
There are suppositions on your part. One, that the pillar of fire and the pillar of smoke were something other than a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke. The second supposition is that they could not have come up with a better visual description of a spacecraft even using their primitive and limited understanding:)sarcastic ).
You may have forgotten one other important supposition and that is that the accounts in the Bible (or the modern UFO phenomenon) may not have happened at all. One of the reasons that I am comparing modern examples to ancient texts is to show that the phenoenon is still continuing and that even modern society does not have a firm understanding of it.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
cardero said:
You may have forgotten one other important supposition and that is that the accounts in the Bible (or the modern UFO phenomenon) may not have happened at all.

Then we should eat drink and be merry for tommorow we die.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
First of all, angels and demons are man-made myths and not even well supported biblically.

A real alien encounter, I believe, would be quite different than anything we have imagined.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
wanderer085 said:
First of all, angels and demons are man-made myths and not even well supported biblically.

A real alien encounter, I believe, would be quite different than anything we have imagined.
You are correct. Not only does our outlook of how we perceive the phenomenon evolve but the phenomenon seems to find new and unusual ways to keep itself spectacular.

CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE FIRST KIND

"A close encounter of the first kind is a sighting of an unidentified flying object or objects. Reports of "flying saucers", odd lights, or aerial objects unattributable to human technology, can all be considered close encounters of the first kind."

In this instance I will focus on sightings with multiple witnesses.

Biblical:
Exodus
13:21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.


14:19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them: 20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.


EARLY 20th CENTURY
I include the next account because it is most noteworthy for its religious connotations.

1. Between May and October of 1917, three shepherd children, Lúcia dos Santos and her cousins Jacinta and Francisco Marto reported visions of the Virgin Mary in the Cova da Iria fields outside the village of Aljustrel, very close to Fatima, Portugal. They had this experience on the 13th day of each month at approximately the same hour.
Thousands of people flocked to Fatima and Aljustrel in the ensuing months, drawn by reports of visions and miracles.

On October 13, 1917, the final in the series of the apparitions of 1917, a crowd believed to be approximately 70,000 in number, including newspaper reporters and photographers, gathered at the Cova da Iría in response to reports of the children's prior claims that on that day a miracle would occur "so that all may believe". It rained heavily that day, yet, countless observers reported that the clouds broke, revealing the sun as an opaque disk spinning in the sky and radiating various colors of light upon the surroundings, then appearing to detach itself from the sky and plunge itself towards the earth in a zigzag pattern, finally returning to its normal place, and leaving the people's once wet clothing now completely dry. The event is known as the "Miracle of the Sun".

(for more information go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Secrets)

It is interesting to note that though the crowd did witness the UFO they never did witness the apparition of the Virgin Mary. Only the children have been reported to have seen Jesus, the Virgin Mary and St. Joseph blessing the crowds that day (???????).


THE PRESENT
I include this multiple sighting because most of the activity happened in my hometown and it is one of the best documented sightings of our century. I remember hearing from toll collectors working on the Bear Mountain Bridge that when the object silently hovered close to the bridge it was described as being as big as a football field and state police did everything they could to keep everyone calm and to get the traffic moving becasue people kept parking on the bridge and getting out of their cars to get a better look at it. Unsolved Mysteries did a segment on this phenomenon.

UNSOLVED_MYSTERIES_UFO_D2.jpg


2. Huge triangular or V-shaped UFOs have been reported countless times throughout the world over the past thirty to forty years, with one of the most active areas being the Hudson River Valley just north of New York City.

Between 1982 and 1995, more than seven thousand cases were investigated and documented by a team of investigators led by Philip J. Imbrogno, a high school science teacher and astronomer in Greenwich, Connecticut.

The heaviest period was between the end of 1982 and 1986, when more than five thousand people reported seeing the object.

(for more information http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc680.htm)

3. The Phoenix Lights, sometimes referred to as "The Lights Over Phoenix", is the popular name given to a series of optical phenomena that took place in the sky over the U.S. states of Arizona and Nevada on March 13, 1997. Lights of varying descriptions were seen by thousands of people between 19:30 and 22:30 MST, in a space of about 300 miles, from the Nevada line, through Phoenix, to the edge of Tucson. UFO proponents claimed they were part of aircraft unknown to man, but the USAF identified them as flares dropped by A-10 Warthog aircraft which were on training exercises.

(For more information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lights_Over_Phoenix.)

Notice that these examples are bold sightings, spectacularly witnessed in front of thousands of people. Although the vehicles may differ, the descriptions are interesting. For example, the Biblical and Fatima accounts address these encounters as miracles from God and the current sightings do not address them as holy visitations even though it is the same phenomenon.
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE SECOND KIND
A close encounter of the second kind is an observation of physical evidence of extra-terrestrial visitation. Footprints, heat or radiation damage to terrain, and crop circles found in the vicinity of a UFO sighting could be considered examples of close encounters of the second kind.

Manna From Heaven

EXODUS 16:4
4 Then Jehovah said to Moses: “Here I am raining down bread for YOU from the heavens; and the people must go out and pick up each his amount day for day, in order that I may put them to the test as to whether they will walk in my law or not.
(As a side note it is interesting to note the conditioning process of the beings operating this cloud.)

10 Then it occurred that as soon as Aaron had spoken to the entire assembly of the sons of Israel, they turned and faced toward the wilderness, and, look! Jehovah’s glory appeared in the cloud.

13 Accordingly it occurred that in the evening the quails began to come up and cover the camp, and in the morning there had developed a layer of dew round about the camp.

14 In time the layer of dew evaporated and here upon the surface of the wilderness there was a fine flaky thing, fine like hoarfrost upon the earth.

Donald Keyhoe in his work The Flying Saucer Conspiracy, devotes a chapter to what he calls “Angel Hair” (ironically known as Pixie Dust) which seems to be a fine flakelike substance which has been observed dropping from UFO’s. This “Angel Hair” sometimes, although not always, disintegrates when a person touches it, and it very often evaporates in the heat of the sun. Whether anyone has tried to eat this substance, I do not know but the description of the “bread from heaven is strikingly similar.

(for more info on Angel Hair http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Hair)

Glowing Disposition

Exodus: 34:29,30
29 Now it came about when Moses came down from Mount Si´nai that the two tablets of the Testimony were in the hand of Moses when he came down from the mountain, and Moses did not know that the skin of his face emitted rays because of his having spoken with him. 30 When Aaron and all the sons of Israel got to see Moses, why, look! the skin of his face emitted rays and they grew afraid of coming near to him.

I introduce the NT testimony with the scripture that Jesus was indeed in contact with the same “cloud” phenomenon as Moses was.

Matthew 17:5
5 While he was yet speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and, look! a voice out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.”

With this scripture I conclude that contact with the cloud equals shiny face.

Matthew 17:2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light.

Many witnesses of the modern UFO phenomenon have reported glowing faces after encountering or witnessing an unknown craft. The most common example is Steven Spielberg’s entertaining 1977 blockbuster movie Close Encounters Of The Third Kind. Spielberg did extensive research to represent the modern UFO phenomenon accurately right down to the peculiar (but glowingly humorous) sunburn that Richard Dreyfuss was sporting instantly after his first encounter and through most of the film.

435537604


The intensity of light and radiation that these crafts emit seems not only to cause haywire with our mechanical inventions but also seems to be hazardous to our health as our next example demonstrates.

STEP AWAY FROM THE UFO!!
There are many Biblical scriptures where the Israelites are repeatedly told "not to get near the cloud" or to touch anything in the surrounding area while it was in "operation" (power).

Exodus: 19:12;21;24

Though in order for “God” to make it understandably clear to all the people involved that Moses was indeed the chosen prophet, some people would inevitably have to suffer.

Numbers 12:4-14
4 Then Jehovah suddenly said to Moses and Aaron and Mir´i·am: “Go out, the three of YOU, to the tent of meeting.” So the three of them went out. 5 After that Jehovah came down in the pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the tent and called Aaron and Mir´i·am. At this both of them went out. 6 And he went on to say: “Hear my words, please. If there came to be a prophet of YOURS for Jehovah, it would be in a vision I would make myself known to him. In a dream I would speak to him. 7 Not so my servant Moses! He is being entrusted with all my house. 8 Mouth to mouth I speak to him, thus showing him, and not by riddles; and the appearance of Jehovah is what he beholds. Why, then, did YOU not fear to speak against my servant, against Moses?”
9 And Jehovah’s anger got to be hot against them, and he went his way. 10 And the cloud turned away from over the tent, and, look! Mir´i·am was struck with leprosy as white as snow. Then Aaron turned toward Mir´i·am, and, look! she was struck with leprosy. 11 Immediately Aaron said to Moses: “Excuse me, my lord! Do not, please, attribute to us the sin in which we have acted foolishly and which we have committed! 12 Please, do not let her continue like someone dead, whose flesh at the time of his coming out of his mother’s womb is half eaten off!” 13 And Moses began to cry out to Jehovah, saying: “O God, please! Heal her, please!”
14 Then Jehovah said to Moses: “Were her father to spit directly in her face, would she not be humiliated seven days? Let her be quarantined seven days outside the camp, and afterward let her be received in.”


* The destruction of the Egyptians at the Red Sea, the warning to Moses not to come near the burning bush, the warning to keep away from Mount Sinai, and the experience of Miriam all suggest that is was dangerous to get too close to this UFO.


1. December 29, 1980 Houston Texas 9:00am
**Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and Landrum’s young grandson were driving home when a huge, bright diamond shaped UFO approached their car spewing sparks. As the craft passed near their car the light and heat became intense. Shortly after this bizarre incident all three witnesses developed headaches, nausea, skin sores, hair loss and other ailments diagnosed as symptoms of radiation poisoning. Betty Cash was to develop cancer in the ensuing years. On the eighteenth anniversary of her encounter, Betty Cash died.

2. Date: May 20, 1967
Location: Falcon Lake, Manitoba, Canada
Stephen Michalak of Winnipeg, was prospecting near Falcon Lake, Manitoba, when he encountered two UFOs, one of which landed on a large, flat rock about 160 feet away from him. After having approached the object and looked inside, the object moved, and something like an exhaust vent was now in front of him. A blast of hot gas shot from these holes onto his chest, setting his shirt and undershirt on fire and causing him severe pain, and leaving burn marks in the shape of a grid.

1907604887

UFO1.gif


UFO1.gif

Though I understand that God was offended at Mir'i-am for her arrogance, I often wonder what Betty Cash, Vickie Landrum and Stephen Michalak had done to incur God’s wrath.


*Passage taken from Rev. Barry Downing’s The Bible And The Flying Saucers

** Excerpts from Jim Marrs Alien Agenda Investigating The Extraterrestrial Presence Among Us
 
gnostic said:
I believed that there are possibly that the existence of life in another solar system or more, perhaps with intelligence life like our own. Are they humans like us? Possibly. Possibly not. I don't think we will ever know.

What I don't believe is that these other beings had visit us in the past or present. It is good for science fiction and all, but the reality dictate that it is not possible for them to travel in such distance any more than we could. As for us, we are no where near of building a manned vessel approaching the speed of light.

I would like to tell you a story about an experience I had in the mid-eighties when I first began communicating with the Spirit World and met Guides there.
I would spend a lot of time meditating and receiving messages from the Guides and one night as I lay in bed receiving messages three space doctors entered the room and they had large saucer eyes and I drew them on a paper and sent them out to a certain place and while I never heard back from the place I sent them the very same pictures I drew and sent out began appearing in Tabloids and you may have seen these saucer eyed space aliens and evidently they decided to go with them this way.
Anyway they visited on several different evenings and one evening one approached my bed and I felt a needle injected at the base of my brain and another needle in my groin and they said they were doctors and taking samples for research purposes.
As you can imagine I don't tell this story often because its very unbelievable but since everyone is discussing these things here I decided to relate my experience.
On another night I received information in the middle of the night as I quote often did where a power high in the Universe could look down through houses and observe earth high in the Universe and one night I was looking down on planet earth through the eyes of this source and I was looking down on a remote farm and the voice said:
'Animals and Humans' and it was a strange sounding voice kind of like we hear in those space films.
I then heard a voice say angrily.
"Don't write about that"
I grew so frightened that I tore up my notes I had been making on what I saw and Heard but over the years I have lost my fear and decided to tell the Story.
 
wanderer085 said:
First of all, angels and demons are man-made myths and not even well supported biblically.

A real alien encounter, I believe, would be quite different than anything we have imagined.
Angels and Demons are most assuredly not man-made myths and I know that from first hand experience but I cannot prove them because only those who have developed their Psychic gift and learned how to communicate with can see them and hear them and when we tell others most people refuse to believe but some psychics do have this gift but getting others to believe it is very difficult indeed.
Angels and Demons are merely the Spirit of Mankind who lives here on Earth and Dies and goes to the after life and experience Everlasting Life just as Jesus taught us.
I would like this not to be about preaching on my part because I have learned that even Athiests may not be mean or spiteful people but just not believe in God because they have no proof of him.
I believe Angels and Demons are the personalities of the Spirits who have left their earthly bodies here on Earth and taken their good and bad personalities to the After Life where they behave in any way they so choose.
Some choose to behave in a good way and some choose to behave in a deplorable way just as they did when they walked the earth.
But whatever personalities they had when they die from a natural death here on Earth or an accident of murder or whatever may determine how they choose to behave in the Afterlife.
Someone who has been Brutally Murdered for example may arrive in the Afterlife mean and ugly and filled with a need for vengance and this is when that Spirit may come back to Earth and seek vengance against their killer or killers and in fact try to force them to give their body up to them to pay them back for taking their life before their time and when these kinds of Vengance takes place the avenging Spirit can Enter a Human body and hence this is what we call a Possession and getting that Angry Spirit out of the body of a Human is not an easy task and this is when a Deliverance Minister or Priest is called in to help calm the spirit down and try to talk it out of the human body it is trying to hijack for its own.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
"Angels and Demons are most assuredly not man-made myths and I know that from first hand experience but I cannot prove them because only those who have developed their Psychic gift and learned how to communicate with can see them and hear them and when we tell others most people refuse to believe but some psychics do have this gift but getting others to believe it is very difficult indeed"

W/o proof, just empty words.
 

mo0seonfire

New Member
i believe that life on other planets exists, regardless if the bible says so or not. im not too sure about angels and demons being aliens, though they do kinda fit that 'alien' position. i believe angels and demons are more of man's myths, similar to god, hercules, and greek gods. as for aliens, there are too many other galaxies with too many other planets for earth to be the only place of inteligent life.

--mo0seonfire
 
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