e.r.m.
Church of Christ
In order not to be celibate, Jesus would have to have been married to someone. What are the "facts" that he was married to Mary Magdelene?
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The Last Supper Painting
- Thread starter Ellen Brown
- Start date
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Agreed.
It might seem odd today, but women didn't have the status and autonomy back then that they do today. If the issue were Jesus' works and ideas, why would anyone bring up His wife?
Discussed in the link in post #35.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ah, but did he actually know in reality?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Someone forgot to tell my wife that this is the teaching.
Because the gospel accounts cover three years of time, so I cannot imagine it covering that time period without a single mention or hint of her. IMO, possible, yes; likely, no.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
They brought up Peter's wife.
Matthew 8:14-15 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever. [15] And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
I'm sure she lived in the same culture. You're saying that if Jesus had a wife, that they would never mention it even in passing? And Jesus made arrangements for his mom John 19:27 upon his death, he wouldn't have for a wife if He had one?
It doesn't mention his donkey or any of his household accoutrements, either.
That's a miracle story. Miracle stories mention the afflicted only as recipients of Jesus' beneficence. The focus is on Jesus.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I dislike the metaphorical language used in religion. It is as if speaking simply would be a travesty. Of course I challenge the idea of bearing the burden of Adam and Eve, but find it just that I face the Creator with my sins. Of which modern religion insists that I have been forgiven for. Hmmm.
It seems that religions have always been full of satanic confusion that seems bent on having the common person beholding to a religious leader. Religious leaders have been in error and violated me in unspeakable ways, so now I only go to God through Jesus, and there is no barrier. To find that quality in oneself that makes us a friend of God, to attain to emulate Abraham...
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Matthew 12:40, Luke 9:22. Yes He did.Ah, but did he actually know in reality?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I agree that we don't bear Adam's sin. There are as much scriptural references for this as there are that Jesus was married.
I'm sorry to hear you had those violations. I feel comfortable enough not deferring to any leaders in my conversations on this thread.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I have no data and reject many denominations hijacking critical thought. Many try to put The Christ in a confining little box when it is obvious that he was as human as he wanted to be. He practiced telepathy with ease, but we don't usually attain that because we just don't listen with reverence perhaps?
I say I am Radical Christian only because I believe in The Christ and his being here, though somehow satanic ideas have flooded in about him. To me, it is unimportant if he just suddenly "IS" among us, or if he arrives in a Moon size space ship named "The Stallion". And to think I once wanted to attend Bible college. They want to control how you think.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
So Jesus's wife would hold the same status as a donkey and household accoutrements. Wow!
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I will not deny traumatic experiences you may have had. I understand you being angry. But there are also plenty of teachers and I would guess Bible Colleges that do not wish to control how one thinks. My cousin went to seminary and he told me that one actually helped him to break some preconceived notions he had adopted.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
From my own inexpert studies of History, I seem to remember that over the ages, the power of women waxed and waned as time passed as seems indicated in the Bible. As is indicated in the Islam, it was the support of Aisha who did the background work to ensure that the notes of Muhammad PBUH were not lost. It is often the case that "behind every successful man is a good woman". Even today, human culture attempts to denigrate the role of women.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
So either this theoretical wife travelled with Jesus and the apostles and went through all that He went throu gh without so much as a blip on the radar. Or He left her home and treated her as though they weren't married, which would make Jesus a terrible person, and would have been called out.
Matthew 13:54-56 Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. [55] “Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? [56] Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”
Matthew 12:46-47 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. [47] Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
They mentioned his mother and his brothers and his sisters, but they would never once mention his wife?
And if that ain't enough,
Acts 1:13-14 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. [14] They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.
you're saying if Jesus had a wife that she wouldn't be there constantly in prayer with the rest, or that they would mention Jesus mother and brothers, but not specifically mention her? Or again, that it would mention Jesus taking care of his mother Mary with John, but would not mention that he had a wife present there as well?
C'mon!
They even mentioned Peter and the Lord's brothers taking along a believing wife. 'Don't we have the right as they do?'
1 Corinthians 9:5 Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?
Jesus would be the PRIME example if he had had a wife.
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Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I have a dear friend who is a Pastor of a church that seats around 200 people twice on Sunday. We went to Kenya and Israel in a group of around 30 people in 2001. Every time I drive up to see him, I fear for him and pray that he does not get entangled in a sinful activity. I do not anticipate ever being an "officially recognized" spiritual leader, and am not jealous of his success. Mashallah, he has a sweet and gentle spirit.
The Mormons have a very fitting term called Priestcraft for paid spiritual leaders, and while I am not Mormon, I find the term to be fitting. Now days, there is a great deal of abuse from paid spiritual leaders, and I find it detrimental to the body of Christ. In paid Pastorate, people can easily "sit the pews" and are free from critical thinking and taking responsibility for themselves. I believe, as the Bereans apparently did, that we each should pray and study a significant period each day. AND, perhaps a large part of that is sitting quietly, or kneeling, to hear that voice which guides us.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I don't find compelling evidence that he didn't. It is not worth arguing about. Perhaps the practice was so common as being beneath the need to comment on.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Ok. To me it's just like the equally absent infant baptism in scriptures. It exists only in the minds of men as conjecture, without evidence that it actually occurred. To me there would be no need to look for evidence that he wasn't, until someone showed me evidence that he was (evidence not conjecture).
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