• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What would you do

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die
This is exactly what I already believe wholeheartedly. That there simply are no such things.

Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?
If I knew it absolutely, without a doubt - well... that'd actually make very little difference from where I am at now. I hold out a very small sliver of a percent chance that "God" as even vaguely described by most people exists... and that only because I acknowledge that I can't claim to know with 100% certainty.

I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

Thoughts?
My first inclination is to assess you as not a very particularly principled or strong person, morally. If only your religious convictions and fear of reprisal gives you pause on moral matters, then I dare say you actually have no morals. However, as others have said - my guess is you wouldn't find yourself turning to a life of immorality if it were proven to you that God doesn't exist. My best guess is that you found religion as a reason supporting the moralistic person you wanted to be... rather than being moralistic because you found religion.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die, what would you do? Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?

Nothing different as I already practice this

I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

This says a lot about you.

If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

A citizen could kill you while you are busy robbing them.

Thoughts?

Seems like you need a threat to act moral and never were moral. So you respond to the stick and only the stick.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
You should have known me as a youngster....

Yeah I grew up in the Baptist community so a lot of the spiritual foundation still resides within me I must admit. So yes there is that healthy fear of doing something that God would disapprove of and therefore I’d be punished.

I guess for me if I knew I wouldn’t get any recompense for doing bad when I die and considering I have no obligation to no human being other than myself, why should I do good? Sure I do good for the sake of good and because I want to help human beings, but rightness and wrongness are conditions.

I help people at a hospital because it provides a sustainable income and it also allows me to progress. But I don’t know, if I honestly knew God did not exist and would not judge me cause there would be no one to judge me after I die I may do things differently.

I mean I wouldn kill people for the sake of killing but I surely would plan out and rob banks. I probably would kill people that disrespected me. I’d probably hit females and males who made me upset. I sound like a Mob boss.

So sad that you were born without the ability to empathize.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die, what would you do? Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?

I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

Thoughts?
I would try to plug up the hole myself by convincing people there is reason to do good. I always want to set a good example. I don't think humans are inherently evil - I don't think cavemen killed off each other. Anyway... hopefully I could be good.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
If someone sees bank robbery as attractive, then one is OK with threatening
& possibly taking lives when stealing what belongs to others. This speaks to
personality, empathy & values which are independent of religion.

I wonder how many people's dark desires are kept in check by religious proscriptions?
I also wonder about how often evil is done because of religious prescriptions when a
person would otherwise not commit the crime, eg, honor killings, witch burning?

I had no idea people of faith actually thought this way. Maybe the OP is joking? I have heard it said and I have said that if God beliefs are the only thing keeping people moral than its best they remain believers. But I wasn't serious as I wouldn't think it was actually true. Very sad and very scary if this is the case.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I have to agree with the Athiests here. Assuming the OP is not facetious, then it belies a sort of straight up sociopathy and lack of basic human decency.
I fear no reprisal from any God/s or Goddesses, but I don't go around assaulting people, robbing banks and killing people (except in Rockstar games heh) because, quite frankly I was raised better than that.

If the only thing forcing you to behave like a decent human being is fear of a deity then you are not a decent human being in any sense of the word.
Disconcerting indeed!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I had no idea people of faith actually thought this way. Maybe the OP is joking? I have heard it said and I have said that if God beliefs are the only thing keeping people moral than its best they remain believers. But I wasn't serious as I wouldn't think it was actually true. Very sad and very scary if this is the case.
I'd hope the OP was only speculating about a change in desire,
& not expressing a current desire which is only restrained by
threat of divine retribution.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die, what would you do? Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?

I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

Thoughts?

I’d probably keep doing what I’m doing. I’m not interested in selfish behaviour especially if it hurts others.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
If there was no deity (or deities) of a higher plane of existence or no authority to judge your behavior after you die, what would you do? Would you do anything different than what you’re doing now?

I think for me I’d be a bank robber and steal from people. With so many people on the planet I have nothing divine to fear so why not steal from people? Sure I know right from wrong, but considering there is no moral judgment of face after my mortal life I would rob people.

If all I have to fear is a prison or dying from disease, or by natural causes I see no point in being a moral person.

Thoughts?
I’m wondering if you had a few bourbons too many when you posted this or it’s what you really believe?
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Every time I read your posts and engage with you, in addition to observing your obviously poor reasoning skills and childishly short temper, it has become more and more obvious to me that you lack any amount of empathy and decency. Now my suspicions have been confirmed.
Was what you said really necessary or useful? I don't think it was.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
I'd hope the OP was only speculating about a change in desire,
& not expressing a current desire which is only restrained by
threat of divine retribution.

If the OP was serious I have to believe he is in the minority and has only been brainwashed by his religious texts into believing atheists are incapable of being moral without god beliefs and was making a statement to that effect. Of course, there are plenty of psychopaths out there who commit horrible crimes but that has little if anything to do with God beliefs. They are just rotten humans. Hopefully most religious folks have outgrown the repugnant, false and immature belief that morality is a result of believing in a sky daddy out there somewhere. It's just not the case. Yes, I agree he was probably only imagining that he would turn bad without his beliefs because he has never experienced living without them. I hope.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If the OP was serious I have to believe he is in the minority and has only been brainwashed by his religious texts into believing atheists are incapable of being moral without god beliefs and was making a statement to that effect. Of course, there are plenty of psychopaths out there who commit horrible crimes but that has little if anything to do with God beliefs. They are just rotten humans. Hopefully most religious folks have outgrown the repugnant, false and immature belief that morality is a result of believing in a sky daddy out there somewhere. It's just not the case. Yes, I agree he was probably only imagining that he would turn bad without his beliefs because he has never experienced living without them. I hope.
If we hear about a string of bank robberies in the area,
we'll know who had become a non-believer.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
The gods of Hinduism do not judge, reward or punish. Given that I face no judgement, except my own karma, I wouldn't do anything differently.

Interesting then how do God’s view rightness and wrongness? Shiva, the destroyer doesn’t sound too nice so obviously from the perspective of an onlooker this deity is capable of obliterating things surely these things are ascribed to someone with some idea of rightness and wrongness.


Edit: Out of curiousity I did some minor research and in Hinduism there is a god called “Yama” which is a deity of justice. So it would seem this deity would have some sort of idea of justice and judgment.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
My worldview has no deities, so I would do nothing differently.

It saddens me that there are people in this world whose moral values are based exclusively on fear of consequence after death and would harm others without batting an eye if there was no fear of judgment.

People do that even if there are deities that exist, (meaning if God or gods that exist and are cognizant of right and wrong and base their judgment on human morals). What is sad that we in a society breed the mentality of desperation because we operate a society based on a monetary system that is what you ought to be sad for.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
No. I was an atheist for decades, it didn't make me into an anarchist. I've always been a helpful person and I've always wanted what's good for a larger group of people. The change between theism and atheism isn't really that big as people make it out to be. In terms of morality we're pretty much all the same.


I don't think you would do it, you might think now that you would, but I believe your conscience would stop you. Because that's the kind of guy you are.

I’m not too sure perhaps these are one of those times for self-reflection. My student loans I’m willing to bet cost more than someone of the houses people live in on this website.. I guess living in the city and seeing things have greatly changed my perspective on morality.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
*Looks at her signature*

If its the abrahamic god, I'd probably have to admit I'd have no sense of self. Without god and serving him, I'm basically ignoring my parent who gave birth and raised me.

As for being judged, I don't see it that way. Although free will doesn't mean I can go out stealing, god gives me an excellent choice of morals that I feel *it benefits me* to follow. If I don't follow gods morals which are mine, I will not benefit (by definition and default). If thats justifying, no. I cant be moral without god. He is morality.

If you mean pit fires and hells not all if any denomination believes that literally. It's a analogy and allegory explaining how we would not benefit from following morals. Why there would be such a thing, don't know.


Unless you are defining Christian teachings by people and not scripture, I'd follow god and without him I'm nothing.

-

Devil's advocate aside, I don't use the word god. It implies a highly missed term that us used by Pagans and other religions in general.

God is life. without it-it-nothing would exist not even me.


Okay.....

By God I’m referring to a deity with absolute authority of this universe (or other universes). Supreme ruler. Self-aware, cognizant of all things. Creator and judge over the affairs of human behavior.

By gods I refer to a pantheon or a specific deity among the pantheon that is designated a judge over human behavior.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Does belief in order of the universe necessitate moralizing that order?

I suppose that's something of a rhetorical question. Each can answer that question as they see fit, and it is not something I put stock in, personally. The concept of divine judgement is popular in Western mythologies, combined with its counterpart of divine justice. It is believed that the universe is "ordered" and more importantly, "just" or "fair." It's not a story that managed to stick with me, even when the theological language is stripped out of it. It just doesn't match up with how I experience the world. Things happen - it's mostly the humans who moralize it. Some say that the gods are a reflection of humanity, and in the case of the God of the Bible, that certainly seems to be the case. That their god moralizes and judges reflects the need some humans feel to do likewise... and they want some higher authority to have the ultimate say-so on such matters.

This is one perspective to have.....

I do believe there to be a both physical and metaphysical order of things.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Surely you'd have something better to do with your time. Something that doesn't involve risking your life.

I risk my life now. I guess it maybe difficult for some of you to understand but for those of us that grew up dangerously and are aware of our finite existence danger is something that develops as a subconscious after thought. I risk my life going to the store for looking like someone who may be targeted for a hit. Or for wearing the wrong color shirt or wrong hat.

The only difference between this and robbing a bank is I don’t have a plan, nor the crew, and the hardware. Life can be rough. People think California life cannot be hard. California has a 20% homeless population and it is only going up per year. If you don’t think people here aren’t willing to risk their life if they could succeed and get away with it you’d be mistaken.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Hopefully you will NEVER stop believing that there's god watching and judging your every action, because clearly you were born with a defective empathy gene. MOST of us act like decent human beings because we can empathize with what other people go through. That means that if I don't like it when people steal from me then I probably shouldn't steal things from other people. If I don't like the idea of being raped then maybe I shouldn't rape other people. This is how most of us live our lives, with absolutely no threat of punishment from god required.

Perhaps it was people like you that religion was invented for.

Sir with all due respect you don’t know me. Nor you don’t know how I was raised nor the environment I was raised in. This thread is purely hypothetical and overall, it really isn’t about me. I grew up in a gang and was a part of it for a very long time. I work in the inner city and I understand the desperation of human beings. Human beings in the inner city are willing to sacrifice their freedom to get what they want/need.

This isn’t about a lack of empathy its about what people would do if they could truly get away with it. If there was no universal retribution and that all of life was truly “free” in the sense of no divine judgment. I can rob a bank without harming you directly. But that is besides the point, point is I’m sure I’ve done more for humanity than you have in your entire life x2.

I help people every single moment. My profession daily is about helping people. I continue to help people, but your response is the reason why I left religion especially Christianity. People instead of getting to know the person are too stupid and blinded by their own fervor.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
That is a very sad thing you are saying.
The fact the only thing that keeps you from harming others is the deity you believe to exist, makes you an immoral person.
The fear of god is not the thing that should make you not harm others, rather the understanding that harming others will cause harm to you and those you care for.
I also really hope you understand that the fact you want to harm others but don't do it, doesn't count as being moral in the eyes of God.
God's ways are to BE good as a being, not in actions.
If you are good in your being, you will then be good in your actions.
If indeed you think harming others is ok if there is no God, you really miss the whole point of God.

How am I any different from the person that recycles? I find it sad people don’t care for this planet so what motivates them to clean up is to get a monetary reward. Perhaps the soul itself is a tabula rasa, and if that is true nobody is born good or evil. We are shaped by our surroundings and grounded by authority.

I don’t see how me saying what makes me moral is God. How is that bad? Bank corporations rob people all the time. We don’t live in a society where there is an equal distribution of wealth. We don’t live in a meritocracy, or a society that values right and wrong action. We are rewarded and because of a monetary reward and a monetary system we live in do you really think people would do the things they do if it was for free?

Do you think cops would help you if they weren’t getting paid? Or an EMT? Or a physician if none of it was financially rewarding? If I’m living in the street with no food to put in my stomach do you think if I was able to be armed with an M4A1 with body armor, a driver and an ill-equipped small bank that most people wouldn’t do it and would get away if they knew there was no repricussion behind it?

Your worldview is mighty naive.
 
Top