rrobs
Well-Known Member
I guess you don't see, or don't want to see, any difference between a gift and a manifestation. Why do you keep calling a gift that which God calls a manifestation? Do you think it doesn't matter what God calls something? I'm sure you don't feel that way, but I must admit I'm a bit confused as to why you can't seem to make that distinction. A gift is not a manifestation and a manifestation is not a gift. They are two different, though related, things.There is more than one place where Paul gives his personal opinion - and they should not be confused with God's will. Paul himself makes it plain that - no, not everyone gets the gift of tongues. Tongues is only one of many gifts that one might receive as part of the larger body of Christ - as it serves the Lord's will. Also, the fact that Paul wishes that all would speak in tongues is itself further testament to the fact that: no, not everyone speaks in tongues. Else he wouldn't be wishing that that were the case.
God will not suddenly take control or your body and make you speak in tongues. It is up to you, by your own free will, to learn about the manifestations and how to operate them. There is no need to "acquire" the holy spirit. God gave it to you the day you were born again, whether you believe it or not, or whether you like it or not. The manifestations are part and parcel of that gift, so there is nothing one needs to "acquire." You already have it. Do you or do you not have holy spirit dwelling within? Is Christ in you or not?There is no learning involved with the gifts of the Holy Spirit. If you are given tongues, you will instantly know to speak in tongues. If you are given the power to part seas, you don't need to practice - have faith and it will happen. If you are attempting to acquire such things - they are not gifts. If anything, they are more akin to studying magic as with Simon the Sorcerer.
Do you think that God forced all those people whom you mentioned do His will in performing the miracles? God never forces! Yes, God does the work, but His hands are tied if there is nobody who believes what He says. God never possesses. Those men, by their own free will, knew what God was capable of doing and believed it. God did not part the Red Sea until Moses believed. Had Moses not believed, the miracle would not have occurred.You lack understanding on the nature of miracles. When someone sent by God does miracles, it is not they who do them. They are merely the instrument through which God does such deeds. Thus those sent by God may demonstrate that they have been sent by God
Exod 14:15-16,
15 And the LORD said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry [ground] through the midst of the sea.
16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry [ground] through the midst of the sea.
God told Moses to lift up the rod, stretch out his hand, and divide it. Who did all of that? Moses! God plainly told Moses to divide the sea. He didn't say, "...stretch out thine hand over the sea, and I (God) will divide it." No! He told Moses to do it. Had Moses not believed the sea would not have been parted.
There is no such thing as being an "instrument" of God. One can be an instrument of the devil, but the true God never uses us against our will and any way shape or form. He tells us what we can do and leaves it up to us to believe and do or not believe and not do. That is not the definition of an instrument. The devil possesses people and makes them his instrument, but not the true God.
I can't argue that many have misused the things of God. That is clear. But God was not talking about parlor tricks in 1 Corinthians and neither am I. Just because some people, like Simon the Sorcerer, misused the scriptures to their own ends does not negate the scriptures themselves. Yes, it is absolutely possible to misuse God's word, and such use is unfortunately rampant in Christian circles, but that doesn't make the word of God invalid. God's word is God's word whether or not anybody believes it. It stands on it's own. I've said many times that you are over reacting to a few verses at the expense of many clear verses.This is not a matter of fear for myself; I am not one who would be deceived by pallor tricks. However, I know many are easily deceived, chasing after signs and wonders. One relative I know would send their limited paychecks to such a false teacher/prophet because he would "magically" cause gold to come from his finger tips - and on that basis tell people to send him their money so that they could be blessed with riches and the like
I know I didn't address all the verses you so lovingly searched out and posted. It's not because I discount them. It's just a matter of time. I'll try to get to them later. I know you've spent a lot of time and effort. Thanks for that!
Take care...