Experience or What You Are Told?

Those of you who have said that you base “what you know” only on your experiences: how, exactly?

The way I see it, an experience by itself only establishes the existence of, well, the experience: the perception, sensation, emotion, etc. Attributing these experiences to something beyond mere experience (a god, for instance) is going to take more than just your experiences, no?

For instance, say someone claims to have experienced “the presence of God.” Think about the thought process (assuming they’re thinking rationally, of course):

1. I experienced some set of sensations.
2. The set of sensations is consistent with an experience of the presence of God.
3. The set of sensations isn’t consistent with anything else.
4. Therefore, I experienced the presence of God.

Only one of the four steps involves any actual experience.

This is just an example, but it’s pretty typical of what I’ve seen of claims to know things by “experience.”

SalixIncendium said:

I was recently questioned in a discussion forum on why there is no gap between what I feel (believe) and what I know.

I do not form my worldview from what others have written or what I'm told to believe, but from what I've experienced.

From what do you form your worldview?

Is your worldview based on personal experience or do you derive your worldview based on Scripture and what you are told by religious leaders what to believe?

Which is better? Why?

Click to expand...

My experience with other Christians they have no idea about what the Bible says or Confirm's. Only because they follow what their leaders will say.

Christ Jesus spoke on this in
Matthew 15:14
"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch"

Has anyone any idea what that ditch is?

That ditch being, The condemnation of hell

Note Christ Jesus also said in
Luke 6:46---"And why call you me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

All because they listen more to their leaders than you Christ Jesus.
Thereby they and their leaders shall fall into the ditch.

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity"

The question is, Who else besides Christians professes to come in the name of Christ Jesus. Claiming to prophesied in Christ Jesus name and do wonderful works in the name of Christ Jesus?

What does Christ Jesus say to those,
Verse 23--"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity"

SalixIncendium said:

I was recently questioned in a discussion forum on why there is no gap between what I feel (believe) and what I know.

I do not form my worldview from what others have written or what I'm told to believe, but from what I've experienced.

From what do you form your worldview?

Is your worldview based on personal experience or do you derive your worldview based on Scripture and what you are told by religious leaders what to believe?

Which is better? Why?

Click to expand...

I believe I had a world view long before I had Jesus as Lord and Savior. As I remember it I didn't derive it from what I was taught but from reason. I think some of my views came from what I was taught.

I like the way things worked out with speaking in tongues. I had never been taught about this in church but I heard it from the TV evangelists. Then I experienced it. Later on I attended a church that believed there was no such thing. For once in my life I managed to keep my tongue quiet, lol.

Vinayaka said:

Nice thread topic, Salix,

Both, but primarily experience. I'll retell the farmer on the side of the road story to illustrate. Imagine a farmer before a hill, and you pass by him every day to say a quick hello. First day he says," there's an elephant over that hill." Doubting, you proceed, and indeed there is an elephant. Same thing next day ... "a broken wagon with 3 stranded people" and then your experience confirms this. The pattern continues, and he is always right. Eventually you learn to trust him. So you learn to believe what he says.

But of course your experience confirms it. If he hadn't have been there, you would have only experience to go on, and it is totally trustworthy. So yes I trust certain scriptures, if I trust the source of that scripture. Experience for sure. And I certainly don't trust any scripture that doesn't have my experiences to back it up.

Click to expand...

That appears to be obverse to what you said before. If experience told you it could be trusted why couldn't you trust all of it?

Muffled said:

That appears to be obverse to what you said before. If experience told you it could be trusted why couldn't you trust all of it?

Click to expand...

No idea what you mean. The language is muffled to me.

SalixIncendium said:

I was recently questioned in a discussion forum on why there is no gap between what I feel (believe) and what I know.

I do not form my worldview from what others have written or what I'm told to believe, but from what I've experienced.

From what do you form your worldview?

Is your worldview based on personal experience or do you derive your worldview based on Scripture and what you are told by religious leaders what to believe?

Which is better? Why?

Click to expand...

We can flip that into the domain science as well since this is a book cult-ure. The religious and scientific minded tend to agree at a fundemental level of shared assumptions they tend to disagree as to the details.

I have no idea how we managed to evolve for nearly 4 billion years without books over the last last few thousand hears.

SalixIncendium said:

I was recently questioned in a discussion forum on why there is no gap between what I feel (believe) and what I know.

I do not form my worldview from what others have written or what I'm told to believe, but from what I've experienced.

From what do you form your worldview?

Is your worldview based on personal experience or do you derive your worldview based on Scripture and what you are told by religious leaders what to believe?

Which is better? Why?

Click to expand...

Both and I use both to get another perspective on each other and on the source especially where they differ.

When truths compete you win! It's just intellectual laziness otherwise.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Those of you who have said that you base “what you know” only on your experiences: how, exactly?

The way I see it, an experience by itself only establishes the existence of, well, the experience: the perception, sensation, emotion, etc. Attributing these experiences to something beyond mere experience (a god, for instance) is going to take more than just your experiences, no?

For instance, say someone claims to have experienced “the presence of God.” Think about the thought process (assuming they’re thinking rationally, of course):

1. I experienced some set of sensations.
2. The set of sensations is consistent with an experience of the presence of God.
3. The set of sensations isn’t consistent with anything else.
4. Therefore, I experienced the presence of God.

Only one of the four steps involves any actual experience.

This is just an example, but it’s pretty typical of what I’ve seen of claims to know things by “experience.”

Click to expand...

Now replace the word "God" in everything you said with "orgasm."

SalixIncendium said:

I was recently questioned in a discussion forum on why there is no gap between what I feel (believe) and what I know.

I do not form my worldview from what others have written or what I'm told to believe, but from what I've experienced.

From what do you form your worldview?

Is your worldview based on personal experience or do you derive your worldview based on Scripture and what you are told by religious leaders what to believe?

Which is better? Why?

Click to expand...

Interesting question.
I believe using my senses is one of the best ways of knowing I am on the right track. So my experience along with the scriptures are what I base my views.
Since my experience with the scriptures show me that I can trust them, I use them as my guide, and from my experience - when I put the scriptures to the test, they lead me to further experience their truthfulness, and reliability.

I see it sort of like a never ending unbreakable cycle - going out and returning to the same point consistently.

Vinayaka said:

Nice thread topic, Salix,

Both, but primarily experience. I'll retell the farmer on the side of the road story to illustrate. Imagine a farmer before a hill, and you pass by him every day to say a quick hello. First day he says," there's an elephant over that hill." Doubting, you proceed, and indeed there is an elephant. Same thing next day ... "a broken wagon with 3 stranded people" and then your experience confirms this. The pattern continues, and he is always right. Eventually you learn to trust him. So you learn to believe what he says.

But of course your experience confirms it. If he hadn't have been there, you would have only experience to go on, and it is totally trustworthy. So yes I trust certain scriptures, if I trust the source of that scripture. Experience for sure. And I certainly don't trust any scripture that doesn't have my experiences to back it up.

Click to expand...

I really like this. I love that illustration.