Trying to understand something about the KJV

rosends said:

I liked that "meaning uncertain." The words are well known but for some reason, in that combination, they become a mystery which can be "variously translated."

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roger1440 said:

Are you implying the “I am” translation starts with the KJV?

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rosends said:

Nope. I'm implying that it is illogical in the KJV and other places. I don't know where it starts, but more importantly, I don't know WHY it starts. Are there English translations that predate the KJV that say "I am"? Tynsdale has "I wilbe" and Matthew's Bible also has "wilbe". The Great Bible has "am" (which is weird as it was based on the Matthew's bible), as does the Bishops' Bible. Douay Rheims has "I am" but for the second part of the verse has "He who is."

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rosends said:

Nope. I can look at others' translations and do some basic work that way, including online translators

“I AM” (Exodus 3:14) compared to “I am” (John 8:58) - Sabbath Keeper's name

It looks like the problematic phrase is ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν
ego eimi (ἐγώ εἰμι) ho ōn (ὁ ὢν)
The first part means "I am" and the second part (strangely and unlike the Hebrew, not the same as the first part) means ething like "is" or "being"
Greek Concordance: ὢν (ōn) -- 45 Occurrences

I found some interesting other stuff...
"\4;`9;`5;`3;Q34;_7; Q27;[7;^7;P61; ^9;O84;_6;_3; P01; P36;_7;" (Moys"n Q27;Eg" eimi o "n) -- Moses I, I am the Lord
[if you take Moses' name out, the word translated "Lord" turns into "one"]

The interlinear version has as the second "eh'yeh" as "while being"
http://en.katabiblon.com...

This website https://www.ellopos.net... has it as "The Being" with the phrase as "I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. "

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rosends said:

I have been trying to understand something about the KJV and I don't know if this is true of other translations -- I just found it to be puzzling. I have posted this elsewhere and not received any real explanation.

So if you are someone who understands how the KJV was crafted (whether or not you accept it as an authoritative version of the bible) I would appreciate an explanation

and

if the explanation is that the text is divinely inspired so the translation-interpretation is valid because of the spiritual nature of the text as a whole, that's fine -- I just want to know. If the answer requires faith that the KJV is right, regardless, and I don't have that faith, then then that's OK, but I just want to know if that was the thinking.

Here's the thing: there are often threads about Ex 3:14, which has in it something which people like to call the "name" of God. Whatever "name" means is immaterial. The point is that the text, in Hebrew, reads "eh'yeh asher eh'yeh." The KJV has

"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

The Hebrew I know has "eh'yeh" as "I will be" not "I am" but I figured, hey, maybe the authors of the KJV knew Hebrew better than I do. So I looked for other instances where the word "eh'yeh" is used. In the 5 books of Moses, it is used 7 times, 3 of them being in 3:14.

The one right before is 3:12 which the KJV has as "And he said, Certainly I will be with thee" with the "I will be" as the translation of "eh"yeh.".

Ex 4:12 is, in the KJV, "Now therefore go, and I will be with thy mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say."
again, "I will be"

Ex 4:15 also has "I will be":
"And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do."

and the last phrase of Deut 31:23 has "I will be"
"And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee."

So if the KJV, in 4 situations translates "eh'yeh" as "I will be" then why, in one particular verse, does it have "I am"?

I'm no Greek scholar but I looked in some online Greek versions of the Septuagint and they didn't point to "am" though some had "the Being".

If the answer is that the phrase (and even the word) is actually a name, so it must be treated differently, then why not treat it the way any other name is? Other names are not translated at all. Anglicized, maybe. Transliterated, certainly, but not translated.

The bottom line is that there seems to be an inconsistency in the translation and in the decision to translate it. Any insight appreciated.

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