Abortion question.

Deo Vindice said:

church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven.

Click to expand...

It depends upon whether you feel the kingdom of heaven means an afterlife or whether it means joining the christian community. Those who believe in the afterlife overwhelmingly believe babies and the unborn are resurrected physically or as ghosts, with exceptions. Those who believe it means joining the community of christ will probably not be too concerned.

Deo Vindice said:

That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God.

Click to expand...

This is I think why its a mistake to have paid ministry. Among other ills you get people with no life experience giving whatever advice pops onto their dauntless tongues.

Cacotopia said:

Quite a few Christians I have conversed with gloat at their future permanent movie theatre of horrors they can go at leisure to in heaven, once they get there. They say they will thoroughly enjoy watching me and other unbelievers getting tortured for an eternity.

That says so very much about them as "forgiving and peaceful" Christians.

Click to expand...

Funny, ain't it? Their version of Heaven us exactly like Hell, only they get to hold the pitchforks. Kinda makes you wonder.

Closet masochism aside, I do find the descriptions of what Hell is like to be far more detailed than the corresponding description of Heaven ever seems to be. As if it's more important to make sure the wicked get what they deserve than the righteous.

stvdv said:

Thank you. Good to hear positive information [OP seemed so negative]. I had a brother who died the second day. So he made it straight into heaven. So we can see it as the biggest blessing to die that quick. Others live a long life and in the end mess up and won't make it into heaven. What a waste of time.

Click to expand...

True.

We had two miscarriages before we had our three babies. Unbeknownst to me, my wife had asked God what they were (boys or girls). Years later, without anyone knowing about the miscarriages, an elderly lady was in the hospital and ready to go to Heaven. She said she wasn't sure if it was a vision or a dream but that she had gone to Heaven and saw her husband and parents. She then proceeded to say the following, "Pastor, interestingly enough, I happen to see two boys that looked just like your elder son but just a little older."

It was an answer to my wife's prayer.

Aupmanyav said:

Probably in the audience hall where God will sit in judgment.

Click to expand...

For David, is was the Mercy Seat.

Again, I do not think anyone has gone to heavens yet, whether of YHWH or Allah. First the Court must sit.Elder, younger, by how many years, Stvdv? LDS people can always help. They provide baptism even after death, even if someone has messed it up.

Click to expand...

Believing you are or aren't isn't a Heaven or Hell issue. We will find out soon enough.

Side-note, even the thief that was next to Jesus didn't get baptized but went to Paradise before and LDS even existed..

Cacotopia said:

Quite a few Christians I have conversed with gloat at their future permanent movie theatre of horrors they can go at leisure to in heaven, once they get there. They say they will thoroughly enjoy watching me and other unbelievers getting tortured for an eternity.

That says so very much about them as "forgiving and peaceful" Christians.

Click to expand...

crazy - sorry for the misrepresentation.

BSM1 said:

Not surprising, I get this all the time. So enlighten me. Show me one church that truly fosters individual thinking?

Click to expand...

I haven't found one that didn't. We must be in different circles.

KenS said:

I haven't found one that didn't. We must be in different circles.

Click to expand...

Maybe it's you who does not see the forest...

KenS said:

True.

We had two miscarriages before we had our three babies. Unbeknownst to me, my wife had asked God what they were (boys or girls). Years later, without anyone knowing about the miscarriages, an elderly lady was in the hospital and ready to go to Heaven. She said she wasn't sure if it was a vision or a dream but that she had gone to Heaven and saw her husband and parents. She then proceeded to say the following, "Pastor, interestingly enough, I happen to see two boys that looked just like your elder son but just a little older."

It was an answer to my wife's prayer.

Click to expand...

Beautiful gift of God to the both of you. A wonderful confirmation. It can be painful for parents losing a child. Confirmation your children are in heaven is the best cure I think.

BSM1 said:

Maybe it's you who does not see the forest...

Click to expand...

Maybe you should get out your back yard?

stvdv said:

Beautiful gift of God to the both of you. A wonderful confirmation. It can be painful for parents losing a child. Confirmation your children are in heaven is the best cure I think.

Click to expand...

Thank you stvdv!

It was painful for sure, as painful as if we had held them in our hands. And, yes, it was the best cure.

We only have one problem

I was going to name my first born son Ken Jr. which ended up being the 1st child after the two. Since we now know that they were both boys, when I see them all in Heaven and say "Hey Ken", will all three of them turn around and say "Yes, dad"?

I always fool around with that statement!

It was very comforting for my wife and I. Thank you!

KenS said:

Maybe you should get out your back yard?

Click to expand...

Since you have been the one that is claiming that something exists you should be able to provide evidence for its existence.

Subduction Zone said:

Since you have been the one that is claiming that something exists you should be able to provide evidence for its existence.

Click to expand...

For someone who has proven that no matter what one says, it doesn't matter.......

KenS said:

For David, is was the Mercy Seat.
Believing you are or aren't isn't a Heaven or Hell issue. We will find out soon enough.
Side-note, even the thief that was next to Jesus didn't get baptized but went to Paradise before and LDS even existed..

Click to expand...

...and I would like to add a 'side-side note' because the day the thief died he did Not go any Paradise.
In Scripture No one went to Heaven before Jesus, in other words Jesus was the first resurrected to Heaven.
Also, I find there is a difference between the Paradise promised to the thief and going to Heaven.
Jesus did No go the Heaven the day he died.
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day Jesus' died Jesus went to Hell !
From the Scriptures we find out what Jesus believed and taught about death.
Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state as Jesus explained at John 11:11-14.
A person in some non-biblical hell would be conscious, whereas the Bible's hell is the grave for the sleeping dead.
Grave for the sleeping dead as also taught at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, while in biblical hell Jesus was in an unconscious sleep-like state until his God resurrected Jesus out of hell.
Since the thief died before Jesus then he can be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth.
Those who died before Jesus only can have a healthy physical resurrection back to live life on a beautiful paradisical Earth as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

URAVIP2ME said:

...and I would like to add a 'side-side note' because the day the thief died he did Not go any Paradise.
In Scripture No one went to Heaven before Jesus, in other words Jesus was the first resurrected to Heaven.
Also, I find there is a difference between the Paradise promised to the thief and going to Heaven.
Jesus did No go the Heaven the day he died.
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 the day Jesus' died Jesus went to Hell !
From the Scriptures we find out what Jesus believed and taught about death.
Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state as Jesus explained at John 11:11-14.
A person in some non-biblical hell would be conscious, whereas the Bible's hell is the grave for the sleeping dead.
Grave for the sleeping dead as also taught at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.
So, while in biblical hell Jesus was in an unconscious sleep-like state until his God resurrected Jesus out of hell.
Since the thief died before Jesus then he can be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth.
Those who died before Jesus only can have a healthy physical resurrection back to live life on Earth.

Click to expand...

Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise was a holding place until the resurrection.

Heaven was after the resurrection.

KenS said:

For someone who has proven that no matter what one says, it doesn't matter.......

Click to expand...

Between the two of us you have only proved that you are terribly wrong in matters of science. You need to learn how to use smileys appropriately. It looks like you were caught in an error again.

KenS said:

Thank you stvdv!

It was painful for sure, as painful as if we had held them in our hands. And, yes, it was the best cure.

We only have one problem

I was going to name my first born son Ken Jr. which ended up being the 1st child after the two. Since we now know that they were both boys, when I see them all in Heaven and say "Hey Ken", will all three of them turn around and say "Yes, dad"?

I always fool around with that statement!

It was very comforting for my wife and I. Thank you!

Click to expand...

Nobody ever replied:"Hey KenS, yours is just a luxury problem, all kids in heaven.". These experiences with "God" make living "Great", the best there is for me.

Subduction Zone said:

Between the two of us you have only proved that you are terribly wrong in matters of science. You need to learn how to use smileys appropriately. It looks like you were caught in an error again.

Click to expand...

LOL... what error in Science?

Your error proves how much "For someone who has proven that no matter what one says, it doesn't matter...... " was so true.

KenS said:

LOL... what error in Science?

Your error proves how much "For someone who has proven that no matter what one says, it doesn't matter...... " was so true.

Click to expand...

Haven't you debated the myths of Genesis? 'Nuff said.

Subduction Zone said:

Haven't you debated the myths of Genesis? 'Nuff said.

Click to expand...

not like you think - you must be confusing me with someone else. Understandable, of course.

Sir Doom said:

Funny, ain't it? Their version of Heaven us exactly like Hell, only they get to hold the pitchforks. Kinda makes you wonder.
Closet masochism aside, I do find the descriptions of what Hell is like to be far more detailed than the corresponding description of Heaven ever seems to be. As if it's more important to make sure the wicked get what they deserve than the righteous.

Click to expand...

An inquiring mind wants to know so it should make one wonder.
People I find often believe non-biblical descriptions of a religious-myth Hell as opposed to biblical Hell.
The Bible's Hell is simply mankind's stone-cold temporary grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach sleep in death -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4.
So, the Bible's description of what biblical Hell is like is that -> the dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Correspondingly, the description of Heaven is the Seat of Government at Revelation 9:5-10: 20:6; 2:10.
Those called to Heaven have two (2) jobs to do:
* They serve mankind living on Earth in the capacity as kings taking care of governmental responsibilities.
* They serve mankind living on Earth in the capacity as priests taking care of spiritual duties toward mankind.

What the wicked get is as Psalms 92:7 says that the 'wicked will be destroyed forever'. -Proverbs 2:21-22.
We all are given two choices at 2 Peter 3:9. If we do Not wish to 'perish' (be destroyed) then we should ' repent'.