Was Hitler a Christian?

Spiderman · Aug 25, 2018

So, one of the definitions of Christian is:
Chris·tian
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective

1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.

According to the Bible, can't Hitler have technically gone to Heaven? Why or why not?

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Whoever believes in him? That would include Hitler.

Romans 10:9 ►
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

I think that is most ridiculous, but it is Scriptural nonetheless. That's one reason I'm not that into Scripture anymore. Too many bizarre promises that no one knows they have the right interpretation to. Yet almost everyone believes they do, and they fight and argue back and forth, and even kill eachother over the correct interpretation of some ancient text about an invisible God. Quite stupid if you ask me!

Flame · Aug 25, 2018

I'd say he started as some odd form of occultist and ended up attempting to become a god for Germany.

The Kilted Heathen · Aug 25, 2018

Hitler was Hitler, a pseudogod in his own fashioned religion.

iam1me · Aug 25, 2018

The scriptural understanding of Christian is one who follows Christ and his teachings. Whatever non-sense Hitler said - there is no intellectually honest way to assert that Hitler's actions were in agreement with Christ's teachings.

Romans 2:6-11 [God] will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

James 2:14-21 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Spiderman · Aug 25, 2018

iam1me said:
The scriptural understanding of Christian is one who follows Christ and his teachings. Whatever non-sense Hitler said - there is no intellectually honest way to assert that Hitler's actions were in agreement with Christ's teachings.

Romans 2:6-11 [God] will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

James 2:14-21 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself. 18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

But God is like Hitler in so many ways. God flooded the world. God killed people for working on Sabbath. God killed children for disrespecting parents. God annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah. God had his chosen people wipe out cities of others, killing men, women, and children.

God says those who don't believe in him or worship him get tossed into a lake of fire. God tortures people for not worshipping him? God and Hitler appear to have much in common!

Unveiled Artist · Aug 25, 2018

PopeADope said:
View attachment 23852

So, one of the definitions of Christian is:
Chris·tian
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective

1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.

According to the Bible, can't Hitler have technically gone to Heaven? Why or why not?

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Whoever believes in him? That would include Hitler.

Romans 10:9 ►
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

I think that is most ridiculous, but it is Scriptural nonetheless. That's one reason I'm not that into Scripture anymore. Too many bizarre promises that no one knows they have the right interpretation to. Yet almost everyone believes they do, and they fight and argue back and forth, and even kill eachother over the correct interpretation of some ancient text about an invisible God. Quite stupid if you ask me!

He could have been then got side tracked.

iam1me · Aug 25, 2018

PopeADope said:
But God is like Hitler in so many ways. God flooded the world. God killed people for working on Sabbath. God killed children for disrespecting parents. God annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah. God had his chosen people wipe out cities of others, killing men, women, and children.

God says those who don't believe in him or worship him get tossed into a lake of fire. God tortures people for not worshipping him? God and Hitler appear to have much in common!

And now you are simply being inflammatory. God does kill at times - but killing in and of itself is not wrong. Killing as a matter of carrying out Justice, self-defense, etc. is perfectly reasonable and good. Murdering a people out of hate, on the other hand, is evil and wrong.

God is love, whilst Hitler was an embodiment of hate.

Also - no - God does not torture people for not worshiping him. In the first place, salvation isn't a matter of doctrine - it is a matter of deeds, what you do, as the previously cited scriptures declare. And, secondly, the lake of fire is not an eternal torture. The lake of fire destroys those who are thrown in it once and for all - body and soul. Poof.

Mindmaster · Aug 25, 2018

PopeADope said:
According to the Bible, can't Hitler have technically gone to Heaven?

By Hitler's beliefs, he was a Christian. God commanded all sorts of people to be killed, so I don't think killing people is enough to keep you out of heaven. (If there is one, not likely.) There's so much killing the OT you'd think killing people was practically a way to worship "God".

Spiderman · Aug 25, 2018

iam1me said:
And now you are simply being inflammatory. God does kill at times - but killing in and of itself is not wrong. Killing as a matter of carrying out Justice, self-defense, etc. is perfectly reasonable and good. Murdering a people out of hate, on the other hand, is evil and wrong.

God is love, whilst Hitler was an embodiment of hate.

Also - no - God does not torture people for not worshiping him. In the first place, salvation isn't a matter of doctrine - it is a matter of deeds, what you do, as the previously cited scriptures declare. And, secondly, the lake of fire is not an eternal torture. The lake of fire destroys those who are thrown in it once and for all - body and soul. Poof.

Every Christian Church on earth for over a thousand years taught that hell was eternal. How do you know it isn't. I mean, I'm glad if it is not, but how do you know? Who do you think you are to say that you have it right, and many generations of Christians had it all wrong?

Spiderman · Aug 25, 2018

Disciple of Jesus said:
Does that seem christian?

According to the Bible, Jesus takes away the sins of the world (Including Hitler's). According to the Bible, if Hitler believed in Jesus and the Resurrection, Hitler would be saved regardless of what his sins were. Jesus died for Hitler.

I'm not saying Hitler deserves heaven by any stretch, but I don't think King David deserved heaven with all the people he killed and his adultery and having his right hand man killed!

lukethethird · Aug 25, 2018

Hitler was a Christian, he claimed to have put the fight to the Jews because they killed his God. He would have got that from a reading of the gospels.

Stevicus · Aug 25, 2018

PopeADope said:
View attachment 23852

So, one of the definitions of Christian is:
Chris·tian
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective

1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.

According to the Bible, can't Hitler have technically gone to Heaven? Why or why not?

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Whoever believes in him? That would include Hitler.

Romans 10:9 ►
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

I think that is most ridiculous, but it is Scriptural nonetheless. That's one reason I'm not that into Scripture anymore. Too many bizarre promises that no one knows they have the right interpretation to. Yet almost everyone believes they do, and they fight and argue back and forth, and even kill eachother over the correct interpretation of some ancient text about an invisible God. Quite stupid if you ask me!

I'm not sure if it really matters that much in terms of what Hitler did.

I guess the key point in the scriptures you cite here is "believe in your heart," so I would presume that whatever Hitler believed in his heart would be a matter between him and God (if there is a "God").

There might be those who are guilty of murder or other atrocities, yet may make deathbed confessions or try to pray for forgiveness at the end of their life, in the hopes that they might be let off the hook for what they've done. Some may believe that if they're truly sorry and ask for God's forgiveness, then they will be forgiven.

But the fact is, Hitler didn't even do that. He left his final political testament, in which he blamed everyone else for starting the war, as well as his failure to win it. Everyone else was to blame, not him. And then he killed himself - the act of a desperate man who knew that he would be facing a death sentence no matter what happened. He even ordered a scorched earth policy since he felt the German nation was too weak for losing the war and didn't deserve to survive. He wanted everyone to die along with himself.

So, even up to the very end, it doesn't appear Hitler sought any redemption or salvation.

Augustus · Aug 25, 2018

PopeADope said:
Whoever believes in him? That would include Hitler.

According to the likes of Goebbels and Albert Speer, Hitler hated Christianity because it was a meek and submissive religion. People owing allegiance to an international organisation/belief system also was not something that fits well with Nazi ideology.

When in power he sought to marginalise the Church's power, and tried to promote a new Germanic religion called 'Positive Christianity' to move Christians away from the traditional faith.

As Germany was almost entirely Christian, the Nazi ideologues had to deal with this reality. You can't just tell people to radically alter fundamental aspects of their beliefs at the drop of a hat, so Christianity had to be coopted and exploited in the short term, until it could be superseded by a pure Nazi ideology. This is why you sometimes get leading members of the Nazi party who hated Christianity making references to it in speeches or propaganda. Propaganda relies on you first aligning you beliefs with those of the audience because its very hard to persuade as apart of an out group.

Many members of the Nazi party were Christians, and saw no problem with reconciling these beliefs with their Christianity, Hitler and the other most senior members were not though.

iam1me · Aug 26, 2018

PopeADope said:
Every Christian Church on earth for over a thousand years taught that hell was eternal. How do you know it isn't. I mean, I'm glad if it is not, but how do you know? Who do you think you are to say that you have it right, and many generations of Christians had it all wrong?

The Catholic Church may teach that, but the scriptures tells a very different story. According to the scriptures, the lake of fire is a second death, where both body and soul and destroyed.

Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Revelation 20:14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Furthermore, scripture tells us that eternal life is a reward for doing good works - as with the Romans 2 passage I provided earlier. This is in contradiction with eternal torment - for if eternal torment is what is taught, then everyone receives eternal life irregardless of their deeds. It would only be a question of whether or not that life would be one worth living.

And scripture is very consistent in laying out that doing what is good and righteous = life, while doing evil and sin = death.

Deuteronomy 30:15-18 See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish.

Also, while it is good to be familiar with mainstream Christianity and tradition, one should not confuse it for what all Christians of every age have believed, of with what the scriptures teach. Even some Early Church Fathers held to annihilationist views. Nor should we be concerned with what the majority think since most Christians have never seriously studied theology in their lives, and never will.

iam1me · Aug 26, 2018

lukethethird said:
Hitler was a Christian, he claimed to have put the fight to the Jews because they killed his God. He would have got that from a reading of the gospels.

You don't get hate for the jews from the scriptures. Christ - the one who was crucified - is even quoted praying for their forgiveness. The scriptures do not support a vendetta against Jews or Judaism.

That's not to say people haven't used the scriptures to attempt to justify their hatred for Jews and others - but in an intellectually honest reading of the scriptures, you won't find any support.

Altfish · Aug 26, 2018

Hitler certainly played the 'Christian Card' to gain popularity, the Catholic Church backed him.

I suspect it is a bit like Trump, Trump isn't religious but he knows that he can guarantee 35% of the vote by pandering to them.

Valjean · Aug 26, 2018

Hitler was raised Catholic. He was never condemned by the church, and he believed he was doing God's work:

“Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews …. The work that Christ started but could not finish, I, Adolf Hitler, will conclude.”
-- Adolf Hitler, 1926.

The Nazi regime was firmly opposed to atheism. The army's belt buckles were stamped with "Gott mit uns."

Catholic Bishops took an oath of allegiance to the Nazi regime and the clergy were ordered not to oppose it.

If, as the Lutheran denominations believe, salvation is earned by faith, then Hitler may be in Heaven.
If, as the Catholics teach, salvation is earned by deeds, then he's probably in Hell.
If, as the Calvinist denominations believe, salvation is pre-destined, then heaven only knows what his fate is.

Augustus · Aug 26, 2018

Altfish said:
Hitler certainly played the 'Christian Card' to gain popularity, the Catholic Church backed him.

"Backing him" is somewhat of a misrepresentation as the Nazis were often hostile to the Catholic Church, and many clergy had been against Nazism. They also didn't endorse the party in any way.

The Church basically signed a neutrality agreement with the Nazis in exchange for having some of their rights protected and to reduce oppression of Catholics.

Reichskonkordat - Wikipedia

Valjean said:
The Nazi regime was firmly opposed to atheism. The army's belt buckles were stamped with "Gott mit uns."

It's not quite as simple as that. Atheists were allowed to join the party and some leading Nazi figures like Martin Boorman were atheists. Also for many other high ranking figures, any god inquisition wasn't the Christian one, more often some deistic sense of providence.

There is also the strong link between atheism and Marxism that existed at this point in history.

Altfish · Aug 26, 2018

Augustus said:
There is also the strong link between atheism and Marxism that existed at this point in history.

The link existed but only one way.
If you were a Marxist, you were undoubtedly an atheist. BUT if you were an atheist, you were unlikely to be a Marxist, although admittedly some were.
Most Marxists 'worshipped' the state.

Augustus · Aug 26, 2018

Altfish said:
The link existed but only one way.
If you were a Marxist, you were undoubtedly an atheist. BUT if you were an atheist, you were unlikely to be a Marxist, although admittedly some were.
Most Marxists 'worshipped' the state.

The Nazis weren't exactly known for providing a balanced and rational consideration of the facts though.

Part of the reason for Nazi comments against atheism were due to its association with "godless commies"

Was Hitler a Christian?

Would you consider Hitler to be a Christian? (In your opinion)

Yes

No

Veteran Member

Beware

Crow FreyjasmaðR

Active Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

unknown member

Veteran Member

…

Active Member

Active Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

…

Veteran Member

…