Prominent Christian Leaders Blame Pagans, Gays and others for 9/11 attacks

SPLogan · Sep 11, 2006

Real Sorceror said:
Wow, Falwell and Robertson's god must be a huge jerk!

This might be for another forum, but why do you think people would have a god who is a jerk?

Hmm... Maybe Robertson and Falwell simply believe that bad things never happen to good people. However, that would be problematic relative to their presumed views of Jesus. :shrug:

!Fluffy! · Sep 11, 2006

Pah said:
Unfortunetly they feed millions of Chrsitians. And thier following eats it up

A. This is such old news, one wonders the need to bring it up today of all days:
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Arial]Last updated: 17 September 2001

B. Their ilk is almost universally mocked by every Christian in my acquaintance.

C. Fortunately "their following" doesn't incinerate babies and thousands of innocent people, then rejoice in the streets.
.

[/FONT]

Feathers in Hair · Sep 11, 2006

I don't think Falwell's version of 'god' is the same as most Christians. People tend to view their dieties in the light as themselves. For that reason alone, most of the Christians on RF tend to have a warm-hearted, kind, generous and tolerant God.

CaptainXeroid · Sep 11, 2006

nutshell said:
The title of your thread is misleading. I don't believe many Christians on the RF would consider those two prominent leaders. If they're out there I encourage them to speak up and let the rest of us know what they think.

Yo! I are one of those, and I am speaking up. Though I'm sure a few other extreme right wingers shared Falwell's & Robertson's views, non of the Chrstian ministers with whom I am familiar have views that even remotely resemble these two.:banghead3:

The thread title should read "Falwell and Robertson" instead of the abmiguous "Prominent Christian Leaders. Our minister was one of MANY who spoke out PUBLICLY against those two, but his and others' messages against bigotry didn't get the press.

kreeden · Sep 11, 2006

SPLogan said:
I don't generally endorse guys like Falwell and Robertson but in this forum, those guys need an advocate to make the discussion more interesting. For that purpose, I will be the "Devil's advocate" here:

PERHAPS Robertson and Falwell believe that God is sovereign over everything that happens... (He doesn't do allow things to happen arbitrarily.) God doesn't just allow "innocent" people to die for no reason. He has the ability to protect people from evil if He chooses.
He chose not to protect them that time.
So, there must be some divine reason for 9/11...
What could that reason be? Hmm... Maybe it's America's general disobedience against God. For Falwell and Robertson, that disobedience is most clearly apparent in the sins they cited. I think that they believe that bad things DON'T happen to good people (for no Divine reason).

That might be why they say the stuff like that.

Or it could be just narrow minded hate ? God may very well be sovereign over everything ? Luckly , Falwell and Robertson isn't .

Booko · Sep 11, 2006

lunamoth said:
The views expressed by Fallwell and Robertson are complete garbage. I would not call them prominent Christian leaders.

I don't even like to call them Christian. It's insulting to Christians.

I usually refer to them as televangeli$t$, a naughty habit I picked up from an atheist efriend of mine years ago.

Booko · Sep 11, 2006

SPLogan said:
What could that reason be? Hmm... Maybe it's America's general disobedience against God. For Falwell and Robertson, that disobedience is most clearly apparent in the sins they cited. I think that they believe that bad things DON'T happen to good people (for no Divine reason).

That might be why they say the stuff like that.

It probably is, but when you look at what "immorality" gays practice vs. the rest of society, one wonders why they don't spend more time decrying the lack of commitment between hetero couples and their failure to support their children? These "immoralities" all produce a very tangible and measureable harm.

That they aim their criticisms at gays and those of us who believe in treating people decently regardless of their "shortcomings", says far more about their insecurities than it does about the society at large.

But I guess that's what repression will do, eh?

Booko · Sep 11, 2006

Fluffy said:
Now "prominent" is a relative term and so it will mean different things to different people. However, given these statistics, what would be a more accurate description of these two men with regards to their Christian leadership?

Vociferous.

SPLogan · Sep 11, 2006

Booko said:
It probably is, but when you look at what "immorality" gays practice vs. the rest of society, one wonders why they don't spend more time decrying the lack of commitment between hetero couples and their failure to support their children? These "immoralities" all produce a very tangible and measureable harm.

That they aim their criticisms at gays and those of us who believe in treating people decently regardless of their "shortcomings", says far more about their insecurities than it does about the society at large.

The difference between Robertson/Falwell and Christian leaders that I respect most is that Robertson/Falwell say "they" are the problem, those I respect most say "I am/we are" the problem. Christian leaders like that are out there; they just don't get as much press. (they tend to be quieter)

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. (1 Timothy 1:15)

nutshell · Sep 11, 2006

Fluffy said:
Heya nutshell,

The Southern Baptist Church has, according to wikipedia, 16.3 million members making it the largest Protestant organisation in America.

Jerry Falwell has a 24000 strong congregation. Pat Robertson's show is viewed by an average of 1 million viewers per day.

Now "prominent" is a relative term and so it will mean different things to different people. However, given these statistics, what would be a more accurate description of these two men with regards to their Christian leadership?

Read my post more carefully before responding. I'm well aware of the statistics you quoted, however, I made the distinction that (from what I've seen) they are not prominent leaders to the Christians of the RF, not America.

Booko · Sep 11, 2006

SPLogan said:
The difference between Robertson/Falwell and Christian leaders that I respect most is that Robertson/Falwell say "they" are the problem, those I respect most say "I am/we are" the problem. Christian leaders like that are out there; they just don't get as much press. (they tend to be quieter)

They may be louder, but they are not given a microphone.

You have to wonder what attention would be paid to Falwell and Robertson if they didn't have programs on teevee. Would they only be given the sort of press that Fred Phelps has? Viewed as "kooky" or something? Without the teevee programmes, they wouldn't have millions of followers. They'd be just another couple of off-the-mainstream Christian ministers that other Christians just pretty much ignore as irrelevant.

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. (1 Timothy 1:15)

Excellent cite.

!Fluffy! · Sep 11, 2006

Jerry Falwell is to Christianity what Jerry Springer is to professional counseling.

The Trinity Broadcasting Network and 700 Club are to American Christians what WWF is to wrestling, and what this argument is to reasoned logical debate.

This thread source (and premise) is also
A. Dated
B. Fill in the blank, my brain is deteriorating from being in here too long...

Buttercup · Sep 11, 2006

Moon Woman said:
This thread source (and premise) is also
A. Dated
B. Fill in the blank, my brain is deteriorating from being in here too long...

Maize probably used that source because of the 5th anniversary today and it is still relevant......They both still say almost exactly the same moronic comments. Neither has changed in the last 5 years.

Faint · Sep 11, 2006

Moon Woman said:
...American Christians...reasoned logical.

It's always amusing to see these terms used in the same sentence.

!Fluffy! · Sep 11, 2006

Buttercup said:
Maize probably used that source because of the 5th anniversary today and it is still relevant......They both still say almost exactly the same moronic comments. Neither has changed in the last 5 years.

So obviously I am ignoring them as much now as I did then....

They are obviously still making money doing what they do so well: radicalizing and dividing people. Or they wouldn't keep doing it.

The $$$ aside, they are still relatively harmless, thanks be to God. Their radical and hateful garbage will only find purchase if people keep sending them money (AND TALKING ABOUT THEM in any serious manner). This is one reason why it's so important for local ministers to preach against them in local pulpits.

!Fluffy! · Sep 11, 2006

Faint said:
It's always amusing to see these terms used in the same sentence.

And it's always amusing to see fangs dripping venom.

Buttercup · Sep 11, 2006

Moon Woman said:
The $$$ aside, they are still relatively harmless

You really think so? I think given the fact that the 700 Club has been on television so long shows you that Pat Robertson continues to be popular. His company, CBN has been around since 1960 and it doesn't look like he's going away anytime soon.

I think there are plenty of people who listen to him, unfortunately.

kreeden · Sep 11, 2006

Moon Woman said:
Their radical and hateful garbage will only find purchase if people keep sending them money (AND TALKING ABOUT THEM in any serious manner). This is one reason why it's so important for local ministers to preach against them in local pulpits.

Sorry , but I have to ask if you are implying that ministers don't preach " in any serious manner " ?

I'm sure that wasn't your intent , but you do appear to be contradicting yourself there . Saying that people should not talk about them , then saying that ministers should ...

Feathers in Hair · Sep 11, 2006

*waves* Just as a general reminder, this thread is in the 'general discussion' section. Please keep all non-civil discussion and debate elsewhere, even if you need to create another thread!

!Fluffy! · Sep 11, 2006

feathers: he started it P.

:angel2:

kreeden said:
Sorry , but I have to ask if you are implying that ministers don't preach " in any serious manner " ? I'm sure that wasn't your intent , but you do appear to be contradicting yourself there . Saying that people should not talk about them , then saying that ministers should ...

kreeden: I totally contradicted myself. :yes:

I told you my brain was deteriorating in here.

No, I am not advocating that ministers mock them mercilessly from the pulpit (few could pull that off effectively or tastefully) and yes I am advocating people stop treating televangelists like the two under discussion as if they have something worthwhile to say.

Something like that.

Prominent Christian Leaders Blame Pagans, Gays and others for 9/11 attacks

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