Who has the Water and Where is It?

InChrist · Aug 8, 2018

Fool said:
Why is Jesus thirsty and not drinking the water he's offering to the woman at the well.

Why does he ask her to draw water for him and he will draw water from her?

John 4:14
but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Because He is sharing with her a spiritual lesson concerning eternal life using water as an illustration, which she already understood was necessary for physical life ...

On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:37-39

"Here Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as the living water. External influence of the Spirit had always been given in the conversion and sanctification of the Old Testament saints and prophets, but the gift of the Spirit who would indwell believers had not yet been received (Acts 10:44–45). So, though many people say that Jesus is the living water, Jesus Himself intended the phrase to mean the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers and seals them for salvation (Ephesians 1:13–14). It is the ministry of the Spirit, flowing out of a heart redeemed by God, that blesses believers and, through them, brings life and light to the world."...https://www.gotquestions.org/living-water.html

Fool · Aug 8, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
I usually dont regujitate scripture. I put it together by context and analogy so it makes sense to me first.

OK

Unveiled Artist said:
The cup holds the water (jesus holds the way to salvation)

everyone must be born of water and spirit. that doesn't exclude jesus. everyone includes all.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

immersion/baptism in the name saves. the name, jesus, doesn't save.

Unveiled Artist said:
The person who pours the water (the person who saves is the creator)

that isn't jesus. jesus was begotten by the father. no one goes up to heaven except the son of man who came down from heaven. son of man is a reference to mankind in general and not to a single individual vs others. ezekiel was also called the son of man.

Unveiled Artist said:
So the creator has water. In order to give the water to the thirsty, he needs a cup. He uses the cup to pour the water to those who thirst.

no one digs a well and then fills it with water; unless you're filling it up as a cistern. the verse talks about welling up and not coming down.

Unveiled Artist said:
Its an analogy for contextual understanding of the messege in scripture. Something I used to understand it not verbatum in the bible. Ill be honest. I think for myself usually before taking someone else citations for it.

god doesn't play favorites. there is one rule for everyone.

case in point.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Fool · Aug 8, 2018

Sleeppy said:
It does and doesn't. It is for some, isn't for others.

flattery, idolatry, will get an idolator no where

27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Unveiled Artist · Aug 8, 2018

Fool said:
OK
everyone must be born of water and spirit. that doesn't exclude jesus. everyone includes all.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

immersion/baptism in the name saves. the name, jesus, doesn't save.

that isn't jesus. jesus was begotten by the father. no one goes up to heaven except the son of man who came down from heaven. son of man is a reference to mankind in general and not to a single individual vs others. ezekiel was also called the son of man.

no one digs a well and then fills it with water; unless you're filling it up as a cistern. the verse talks about welling up and not coming down.

god doesn't play favorites. there is one rule for everyone.

case in point.

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I dont want to sound rude. Is english your native language?

I think youre talking about something completely different.

I am using water as salvation
Cup as jesus
Person pouring the cup as the creator

Its a analogy, I chose to use to describe the relationship between creator, savior, and believer.

Everyone was born of water (yes....but my point is that a believer drinks from the water/salvation so he is nourished in the name of jesus and in the spirit of his father)

Water is not jesus; I didnt say that. I said water is salvation (aka baptism)

The rest doesnt relate to my comment.

Im using my own analogy to explain how jesus, the creator, and believer are related.

Water/salvation saves
The salvation itself is from the creator

Jesus is only a medium/cup/intermediary to bring his fathers salvation among the people as an incarnated message of his father.

Water=salvation
jesus=medium to that salvation
creator=the actual and original savior

Im not trinitarian.

Fool · Aug 8, 2018

InChrist said:
Because He is sharing with her a spiritual lesson concerning eternal life using water as an illustration, which she already understood was necessary for physical life ...

On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:37-39

"Here Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as the living water. External influence of the Spirit had always been given in the conversion and sanctification of the Old Testament saints and prophets, but the gift of the Spirit who would indwell believers had not yet been received (Acts 10:44–45). So, though many people say that Jesus is the living water, Jesus Himself intended the phrase to mean the Holy Spirit who dwells in believers and seals them for salvation (Ephesians 1:13–14). It is the ministry of the Spirit, flowing out of a heart redeemed by God, that blesses believers and, through them, brings life and light to the world."...https://www.gotquestions.org/living-water.html

birds of feather tend to flock together. like attracts like.

so all are born of water and the holy spirit but some sleep until someone, or something wakes, rouses them out of their revery.

to believe on someone isn't advocating for idolatry.

so when the person believes out of that person will flow living waters, not water from jesus.

so these are those who sleep in unbelief. dead bird, dead, dead bird.

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

and these are those who awoke and from which the water flowed

Revelation 19:17
And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:21
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

that is the one who rode out on a white horse to conquer

Fool · Aug 8, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
I dont want to sound rude. Is english your native language?

I think youre talking about something completely different.

I am using water as salvation
Cup as jesus
Person pouring the cup as the creator

Its a analogy, I chose to use to describe the relationship between creator, savior, and believer.

Everyone was born of water (yes....but my point is that a believer drinks from the water/salvation so he is nourished in the name of jesus and in the spirit of his father)

Water is not jesus; I didnt say that. I said water is salvation (aka baptism)

The rest doesnt relate to my comment.

Im using my own analogy to explain how jesus, the creator, and believer are related.

Water/salvation saves
The salvation itself is from the creator

Jesus is only a medium/cup/intermediary to bring his fathers salvation among the people as an incarnated message of his father.

Water=salvation
jesus=medium to that salvation
creator=the actual and original savior

Im not trinitarian.

ok then simply take all of that you have imagined or believed and believe/imagine all are jesus.

what you have done unto the least of these, imagine, you have done unto me

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it..

the son's name is the Father's name

Unveiled Artist · Aug 8, 2018

Fool said:
ok then simply take all of that you have imagined or believed and believe/imagine all are jesus.

what you have done unto the least of these, imagine, you have done unto me

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it..

the son's name is the Father's name

I am not following at all your points.

74x12 · Aug 8, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
No. Salvation is.

You know what Yeshua means right?

Unveiled Artist · Aug 8, 2018

74x12 said:
You know what Yeshua means right?

Yes. My point is the person doesn't save actual action did.

I.e. if someone is thirsty they ask for water (real water), who quenched their thirst, the water or the one holding the cup?

My point is it's the water than quenched the thirst not the person who poured it for you.

Other than that, questions like that annoy the heck out of me. What are you trying to say?

Fool · Aug 8, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
I am not following at all your points.

the point is what ever you believe about jesus, you should apply to everyone else. to be great is to serve all as one.

Sleeppy · Aug 8, 2018

Fool said:
flattery, idolatry, will get an idolator no where

27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Flattery ≠ idolatry.

But, here's a secret for you; free will is autolatry/idolatry. Everyone is guilty.

Unveiled Artist · Aug 9, 2018

Fool said:
the point is what ever you believe about jesus, you should apply to everyone else. to be great is to serve all as one.

We are talking about him not everyone else. Your OP doesn't address anyone else just jesus.

My point is water is salvation, jesus is the cup (the medium that holds salvation), and the one pouring the water is the creator. The metaphor isn't in scripture but my analogy to describe the relationship of where water is defined and plays a role in the Christian faith.

You didn't mention other people and my beliefs are beside the point.

Jedster · Aug 9, 2018

Sleeppy said:
Because he's talking about a different 'water'; a different 'thirst'.

Maybe he is referring to AMRIT

" AMRIT or Aab-i-Hayat or Maha Ras is the elixir of life, or whoever partakes of it gets everlasting life and escapes forever from the otherwise interminable round of births and deaths. The sages and seers wandered in quest of It, but nowhere in the wide world were they able to find It. Is It then a chimera or mirage ? The saints in reply have repeatedly said that Amrit is something real and solid. It is the Water of Immortality, which lies hidden and buried within the depths of the soul, encrusted with the dust of ages, and may be delved into even now and rediscovered, if one has the patience to do as he is bidden.

In the scriptures of the various religions we come across references to the sacred Water of Life. The Muslim divines describe It as Aab-Haiwan or Aab-i-Hayat and always suggested Its use to the world-weary pilgrims. It is also called Chasma-i-Kausar. The Hindu scriptures call It Mansarover or the Pool of Nectar (Amritsar), which if tasted would grant life everlasting. In the Vedas we read of It as Soma Ras, which granted Cosmic Awareness or Universal Consciousness to the Rishis and the Munis who partook of It in ages long ago. The saints generally call It Amritsar or the pool or the fount of Nectar. Christ often spoke of It as the Water of Life. "

(full article at Naam or Word: AMRIT - Water or Nectar of Life )

Fool · Aug 9, 2018

Sleeppy said:
Flattery ≠ idolatry.

flattery is praising, or glorifying something above something else. that is what idolatry is. idolatry creates a disparity. so it is better to put into practice what is being taught than it is to idolize someone.

this is why it is written.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

love makes everyone, all equal

Sleeppy said:
But, here's a secret for you; free will is autolatry/idolatry. Everyone is guilty.

to serve all selves isn't idolatry. you cannot elevate/demote when serving all as one. the absolute isn't guilty of idolatry when practicing service to self, there can be no absolutes apart from it.

Fool · Aug 9, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
We are talking about him not everyone else. Your OP doesn't address anyone else just jesus.

the original OP addresses two people: 1. Jesus, 2. woman at the well.

Unveiled Artist said:
My point is water is salvation, jesus is the cup (the medium that holds salvation), and the one pouring the water is the creator. The metaphor isn't in scripture but my analogy to describe the relationship of where water is defined and plays a role in the Christian faith.

You didn't mention other people and my beliefs are beside the point.

jesus and the woman at the well are other selves.

jesus said to believe. jesus never, ever says to worship/idolize him.

Unveiled Artist · Aug 9, 2018

Fool said:
the original OP addresses two people: 1. Jesus, 2. woman at the well.

jesus and the woman at the well are other selves.

jesus said to believe. jesus never, ever says to worship/idolize him.

The woman drawed water for jesus as an act of faith (@BilliardsBall ). That action shows jesus she was in service to god the father by being act of service to his son. The gesture is something she did out of faith (rather than something she needed to do out of obligation). Faith/action intertwined.

The woman represent believers. The water salvation. Jesus the medium of salvation. His father the Savior.

The last part, people idolizing jesus is besides the point. I would never idolize a person if I believed on god, only the creator.

But that's not the topic of the OP from what I gather.

Fool · Aug 9, 2018

Jedster said:
Maybe he is referring to AMRIT

" AMRIT or Aab-i-Hayat or Maha Ras is the elixir of life, or whoever partakes of it gets everlasting life and escapes forever from the otherwise interminable round of births and deaths. The sages and seers wandered in quest of It, but nowhere in the wide world were they able to find It. Is It then a chimera or mirage ? The saints in reply have repeatedly said that Amrit is something real and solid. It is the Water of Immortality, which lies hidden and buried within the depths of the soul, encrusted with the dust of ages, and may be delved into even now and rediscovered, if one has the patience to do as he is bidden.

In the scriptures of the various religions we come across references to the sacred Water of Life. The Muslim divines describe It as Aab-Haiwan or Aab-i-Hayat and always suggested Its use to the world-weary pilgrims. It is also called Chasma-i-Kausar. The Hindu scriptures call It Mansarover or the Pool of Nectar (Amritsar), which if tasted would grant life everlasting. In the Vedas we read of It as Soma Ras, which granted Cosmic Awareness or Universal Consciousness to the Rishis and the Munis who partook of It in ages long ago. The saints generally call It Amritsar or the pool or the fount of Nectar. Christ often spoke of It as the Water of Life. "

(full article at Naam or Word: AMRIT - Water or Nectar of Life )

the water of life flows from the kingdom of god.......................

The Great Work (Latin: Magnum opus) is an alchemical term for the process of working with the prima materia to create the philosopher's stone.

Revelation 22:1
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

love is like a river

Proverbs 4:23
Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

Fool · Aug 9, 2018

Unveiled Artist said:
The woman drawed water for jesus as an act of faith (@BilliardsBall ). That action shows jesus she was in service to god the father by being act of service to his son. The gesture is something she did out of faith (rather than something she needed to do out of obligation). Faith/action intertwined.

jesus took her like a horse to water. she had to drink of herself.

Unveiled Artist said:
The woman represent believers. The water salvation. Jesus the medium of salvation. His father the Savior.

jesus shows believers the way; which is through self, i, me. the believer has to walk the way. the teacher can't do it for the student. student has to realize it for self.

BilliardsBall · Aug 9, 2018

Fool said:
Why is Jesus thirsty and not drinking the water he's offering to the woman at the well.

Why does he ask her to draw water for him and he will draw water from her?

John 4:14
but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

Jesus is speaking of the living water of relationship with God. The woman was "stuck" on the well water . . .

Sleeppy · Aug 9, 2018

Fool said:
flattery is praising, or glorifying something above something else. that is what idolatry is. idolatry creates a disparity. so it is better to put into practice what is being taught than it is to idolize someone.

this is why it is written.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

love makes everyone, all equal

to serve all selves isn't idolatry. you cannot elevate/demote when serving all as one. the absolute isn't guilty of idolatry when practicing service to self, there can be no absolutes apart from it.

No. Monotheistic idolatry is the worship of anything as a god, or God, that isn't. It's misrepresentation; a lie, or a falsehood, in simplest form. Free will is idolatrous, in that it is the belief that God's will is surmountable, thereby elevating one's own will to the status of a god, or God.

Exalting valleys, only to lower mountains, does not describe equalization; it describes redistribution.

Who has the Water and Where is It?

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