QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
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OtherSheep said: ↑
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
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QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
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I completely agree… and I did so the last time this issue came up, too. Because what you are calling blasphemy against the Son is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
From page 3 of the thread called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:
QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5703027, member: 64612"]
12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost
The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.[/QUOTE
"And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming."
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OtherSheep said: ↑
The Prophecy:
part 1
Matthew 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"
Fulfilled:
Acts 26:10-11 "Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities."
Pending:
part 2
Matthew 23:35 ": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
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QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable.
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Jesus left us an example, so that we don't have to judge it, at all.
Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Jo 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person.
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Jesus condoms all of the Pharisees, en masse.
Judas repented but wasn't forgiven, and neither is Saul... because:
If the blood of the righteous were NOT blamed on ALL of the Pharisees which fulfill that prophecy, then Jesus would become a false prophet. I hope you know that can't happen.
I'm also hoping that at least one soul figures this out, and repents of believing Saul.
QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul.
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Where do you see the Pharisees persecuting Saul? I can't find it.
So... Chapter and Verse, if you please. Thanx in advance.
Here's what I did find:
The Pharisee Gamaliel told them to let Peter and his crew alone, in Acts 5.
Chapter 15 talks about a Pharisee sect that wanted the believers to come into the covenant and keep the law of Moses.
Chapter 23 is where Saul subverts the trial by creating a word-war between the Pharisees and Sadducees… by pretending that the resurrection was why he was on trial, in verse 6… when the real reason is this:
21:21 "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."
Which is precisely what Saul's letters show him doing.
QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.
Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.
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They were casting out demons by the prince of the demons, and dividing their own house in the process… as Jesus explains in Matthew 12… so why not let their demon get rid of the demon-infestation?
But that act didn't make them into His sheep, because of this:
Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
In other words, keep the commandments of God… don't be those that work iniquity. Iniquity comes from the Greek word anomia, and means without law.
Which is comprehended by Saul's grace-apart-from-the-works-of-the-law gospel.
How many more nails in his coffin do you really need to see?
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OtherSheep said: ↑
10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
How exactly does that prayer go?... Bless this meat... that I didn't know was sacrificed to demons because I didn't ask... wink wink.
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QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?
It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
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Then do what they did in Daniel, or learn to hunt and fish... Or at least don't believe someone who tells you to do what Jesus specifically tells you not to do.
And it's not at all about conscience. It's about following the law that Jesus never ended but re-enforced.
In fact, Jesus answered their question, precisely.
15:2 they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
15:20 to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
The words between are His view of Pharisees and their followers.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable, and so is the yeast of Pharisees.