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Satan is liar and the father of it

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Matthew 13:13-15 "Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them
This has been shown to be a quote of questionable authenticity.

Aaand uuuup the balloon goes...
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Then you don't believe that rulers are to be bowed down to and prayed for, because Satan is the guy who owns the kingdoms of this world today? If that is what you're saying, then you don't believe Saul the Pharisee, any more than I do.

Or you haven't yet done the math.

Because if "obey all authority" is some kind of reality, then obeying the Inquisitors and blaspheming God was also the right thing to do... and obeying the Talmudic Noachides who call Jesus an idol will also be the right thing to do. And isn't that what Saul made the followers of Jesus do... blaspheme God? And Saul is the same guy who tells you to obey all authority which is an agent of God operating for your good. Obey even the Roman Emperors who fed people to the lions. And even the governments who will tell you to be Judas to your family and friends, are to be obeyed under the umbrella of "all authority".

The whole thing falls apart, when you really think about Saul of Tarsus.
This is so woefully ill-conceived, I really can’t tell if you’re serious-but-misinformed, trolling, or chemically impaired.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
1:13 "Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief." Saul.

6:64 "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him." Judas.

Judas didn't obtain mercy. Neither will the man who fulfilled this.

The Prophecy:
part 1

Matthew 23:34
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"

Fulfilled:

Acts 26:10-11 "Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities."

Pending:
part 2

Matthew 23-35 ": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
Othersheep, I like you but I think you're grasping at straws here. I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable. Do you? Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person. In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul. Of course they can repent and if they were wise they would have repented like Paul did.

Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.

Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.

10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

How exactly does that prayer go?... Bless this meat... that I didn't know was sacrificed to demons because I didn't ask... wink wink.
Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?

It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
[/QUOTE

I completely agree… and I did so the last time this issue came up, too. Because what you are calling blasphemy against the Son is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

From page 3 of the thread called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5703027, member: 64612"]
12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost

The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.[/QUOTE

"And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑
The Prophecy:
part 1

Matthew 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"

Fulfilled:

Acts 26:10-11 "Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities."

Pending:
part 2

Matthew 23:35 ": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable.
[/QUOTE

Jesus left us an example, so that we don't have to judge it, at all.

Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Jo 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person.
[/QUOTE

Jesus condoms all of the Pharisees, en masse.
Judas repented but wasn't forgiven, and neither is Saul... because:

If the blood of the righteous were NOT blamed on ALL of the Pharisees which fulfill that prophecy, then Jesus would become a false prophet. I hope you know that can't happen.
I'm also hoping that at least one soul figures this out, and repents of believing Saul.

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul.
[/QUOTE

Where do you see the Pharisees persecuting Saul? I can't find it.
So... Chapter and Verse, if you please. Thanx in advance.

Here's what I did find:

The Pharisee Gamaliel told them to let Peter and his crew alone, in Acts 5.
Chapter 15 talks about a Pharisee sect that wanted the believers to come into the covenant and keep the law of Moses.
Chapter 23 is where Saul subverts the trial by creating a word-war between the Pharisees and Sadducees… by pretending that the resurrection was why he was on trial, in verse 6… when the real reason is this:

21:21 "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."

Which is precisely what Saul's letters show him doing.


QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.

Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.
[/QUOTE

They were casting out demons by the prince of the demons, and dividing their own house in the process… as Jesus explains in Matthew 12… so why not let their demon get rid of the demon-infestation?

But that act didn't make them into His sheep, because of this:

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In other words, keep the commandments of God… don't be those that work iniquity. Iniquity comes from the Greek word anomia, and means without law.
Which is comprehended by Saul's grace-apart-from-the-works-of-the-law gospel.

How many more nails in his coffin do you really need to see?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑

10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

How exactly does that prayer go?... Bless this meat... that I didn't know was sacrificed to demons because I didn't ask... wink wink.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?

It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
[/QUOTE

Then do what they did in Daniel, or learn to hunt and fish... Or at least don't believe someone who tells you to do what Jesus specifically tells you not to do.

And it's not at all about conscience. It's about following the law that Jesus never ended but re-enforced.

In fact, Jesus answered their question, precisely.

15:2 they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
15:20 to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The words between are His view of Pharisees and their followers.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable, and so is the yeast of Pharisees.
 
Last edited:

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
This has been shown to be a quote of questionable authenticity.

"And He saith, 'Go, and thou hast said to this people, Hear ye -- to hear, and ye do not understand, And see ye -- to see, and ye do not know. Declare fat the heart of this people, And its ears declare heavy, And its eyes declare dazzled, Lest it see with its eyes, And with its ears hear, and its heart consider, And it hath turned back, and hath health.'
And I say, 'Till when, O Lord?'
And He saith, 'Surely till cities have been wasted without inhabitant, And houses without man, And the ground be wasted -- a desolation, And Jehovah hath put man far off, And great [is] the forsaken part in the heart of the land. And yet in it a tenth, and it hath turned, And hath been for a burning, As a teil-tree, and as an oak, that in falling, Have substance in them, The holy seed [is] its substance!'"
-- Isaiah 6:9-13.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑

Matthew 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow] doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus in the gospel of Luke mentions a blasphemy against the "Son of man" which is forgivable. We should let God decide who is forgivable or not.
[/QUOTE

I completely agree… and I did so the last time this issue came up, too. Because what you are calling blasphemy against the Son is also blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

From page 3 of the thread called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit:

QUOTE="OtherSheep, post: 5703027, member: 64612"]
12:24 cast out devils, but by Beelzebub
12:28 cast out devils by the Spirit of God
12:32 speaketh against the Holy Ghost

The Pharisees called the Holy Spirit the prince of devils, straight up.
Of course, at the same time they blasphemed God and Jesus.[/QUOTE

"And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it shall be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑
The Prophecy:
part 1

Matthew 23:34 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:"

Fulfilled:

Acts 26:10-11 "Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities."

Pending:
part 2

Matthew 23:35 ": That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
I can't really believe that Pharisees who persecute Christians are unforgivable.
[/QUOTE

Jesus left us an example, so that we don't have to judge it, at all.

Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Jo 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.


QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Jesus never says that Pharisees who persecute the church are unforgivable; if they repent. He was talking to an entire generation when He said all the righteous blood would come upon them. Not just one person.
[/QUOTE

Jesus condoms all of the Pharisees, en masse.
Judas repented but wasn't forgiven, and neither is Saul... because:

If the blood of the righteous were NOT blamed on ALL of the Pharisees which fulfill that prophecy, then Jesus would become a false prophet. I hope you know that can't happen.
I'm also hoping that at least one soul figures this out, and repents of believing Saul.

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
In the book of Acts, the Pharisees also followed Paul himself from city to city causing problems for Paul.
[/QUOTE

Where do you see the Pharisees persecuting Saul? I can't find it.
So... Chapter and Verse, if you please. Thanx in advance.

Here's what I did find:

The Pharisee Gamaliel told them to let Peter and his crew alone, in Acts 5.
Chapter 15 talks about a Pharisee sect that wanted the believers to come into the covenant and keep the law of Moses.
Chapter 23 is where Saul subverts the trial by creating a word-war between the Pharisees and Sadducees… by pretending that the resurrection was why he was on trial, in verse 6… when the real reason is this:

21:21 "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."

Which is precisely what Saul's letters show him doing.


QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Didn't Jesus say "forbid him not" when they saw someone casting out devils in Jesus name that didn't walk with them? Can you really forbid Paul who did notable miracles in Jesus name and cast out demons all over the place? Not even Peter, James or any other of the apostles forbid Paul.

Mark 9:38-40 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.
[/QUOTE

They were casting out demons by the prince of the demons, and dividing their own house in the process… as Jesus explains in Matthew 12… so why not let their demon get rid of the demon-infestation?

But that act didn't make them into His sheep, because of this:

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

In other words, keep the commandments of God… don't be those that work iniquity. Iniquity comes from the Greek word anomia, and means without law.
Which is comprehended by Saul's grace-apart-from-the-works-of-the-law gospel.

How many more nails in his coffin do you really need to see?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
OtherSheep said: ↑

10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you [to a feast], and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience? 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?

How exactly does that prayer go?... Bless this meat... that I didn't know was sacrificed to demons because I didn't ask... wink wink.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

QUOTE="74x12, post: 5728004, member: 63315"]
Well, if we have to ask before we eat anything; then we're in trouble. Because you never know what meat was secretly sacrificed to idols. And what if they tell you it wasn't sacrificed when it really was sacrificed?

It's all about the conscious. Nothing going into the mouth can truly make you unclean. Only what comes out of it. (Matthew 15:11, Matthew 15:17-20)
[/QUOTE

Then do what they did in Daniel, or learn to hunt and fish... Or at least don't believe someone who tells you to do what Jesus specifically tells you not to do.

And it's not at all about conscience. It's about following the law that Jesus never ended but re-enforced.

In fact, Jesus answered their question, precisely.

15:2 they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
15:20 to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The words between are His view of Pharisees and their followers.
Obsessive-compulsive disorder is treatable, and so is the yeast of Pharisees.
Got to disagree unequivocally. However, I don't think this is the thread for such disputes.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
QUOTE="sojourner, post: 5727701, member: 5010"]
you’re serious-but-misinformed, trolling, or chemically impaired.
[/QUOTE

_______________________________
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." -- Jesus, Matthew 5.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Got to disagree unequivocally. However, I don't think this is the thread for such disputes.

Thank you for your honesty.

______________________
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." -- Joshua 24:15.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
"And He saith, 'Go, and thou hast said to this people, Hear ye -- to hear, and ye do not understand, And see ye -- to see, and ye do not know. Declare fat the heart of this people, And its ears declare heavy, And its eyes declare dazzled, Lest it see with its eyes, And with its ears hear, and its heart consider, And it hath turned back, and hath health.'
And I say, 'Till when, O Lord?'
And He saith, 'Surely till cities have been wasted without inhabitant, And houses without man, And the ground be wasted -- a desolation, And Jehovah hath put man far off, And great [is] the forsaken part in the heart of the land. And yet in it a tenth, and it hath turned, And hath been for a burning, As a teil-tree, and as an oak, that in falling, Have substance in them, The holy seed [is] its substance!'"
-- Isaiah 6:9-13.
And this has ... what, precisely, to do with my post?
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Which deity does John blaspheme, KotP?
God. :)

Secondly, remember that Jesus Himself was a "Lamb of God"? That He died a sacrifice for us?
Real slaughtered sheep stay dead though.

Not that God needs a sacrifice or even desires it, but He accepts it because they did give their life for Him. So He honors them.
But Jesus' "sacrifice" was being born. Dying allowed him to return to godhood, yes?

As for tyrants using His name. Sure and they would use anything for the power they crave. They're quite possibly sociopaths or psychopaths. They don't care what they have to say to get what they want.
Why should I not lump in the tyrants of now with the tyrants of old?

I mean, you have a group of 11 or so guys who were told by Jesus that they didn't understand him, yet they felt they should be the head teachers for the class they were flunking. That's tyrannical, right?

Psalm 23 "Jehovah [is] my shepherd, I do not lack, In pastures of tender grass He causeth me to lie down, By quiet waters He doth lead me. My soul He refresheth, He leadeth me in paths of righteousness, For His name's sake, Also -- when I walk in a valley of death-shade, I fear no evil, for Thou [art] with me, Thy rod and Thy staff -- they comfort me. Thou arrangest before me a table, Over-against my adversaries, Thou hast anointed with oil my head, My cup is full! Only -- goodness and kindness pursue me, All the days of my life, And my dwelling [is] in the house of Jehovah, For a length of days!"

Matthew 11 'Come unto Me, all ye labouring and burdened ones, and I will give you rest, take up My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, because I am meek and humble in heart, and ye shall find rest to your souls, for My yoke [is] easy, and My burden is light.'
Jesus also notes that your suffering in life will be relieved after death. But, you're DEAD, though. NOT living a life of suffering would've been nice.

the one carrying the sin of the world."
Please prove the bible knows anything about "the world".

He that hath the key of David
Why not the key of Periphas? Selyf? Bogud? Suizei? See what I mean about not knowing about "the world"?

David was a ho who killed innocent people all over the place and slept with just about anyone. He's a lot like Julius, I guess. I wouldn't call that being a role model. The House of David ensured the failure of the Israelite state, ultimately leading to the near extinction of the population. Honestly, anyone trying to fix things on Earth should stay FAR away from any identification with these losers.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Real slaughtered sheep stay dead though.
None of God's sheep stay dead. (Luke 20:38)
But Jesus' "sacrifice" was being born. Dying allowed him to return to godhood, yes?
Well it began His sacrifice I think. But, being tortured to death is not a sacrifice to you? Even if you come back to life 3 days later it's no picnic right?
Why should I not lump in the tyrants of now with the tyrants of old?

I mean, you have a group of 11 or so guys who were told by Jesus that they didn't understand him, yet they felt they should be the head teachers for the class they were flunking. That's tyrannical, right?
I suppose they still understood better than the others did. Once Jesus gave them the holy Spirit (Luke 24:49, Acts 2:1-4) then they understood much better.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
None of God's sheep stay dead.
Name one biblical character I can talk to today.

But, being tortured to death is not a sacrifice to you?
God routinely acts like our cries about suffering are kinda stupid. Took Him 400 years to listen to "His people" that one time. This is a God who wants daily BBQ. I'm sure the BBQ doesn't like it. He doesn't then get to whine about a few puncture wounds and some lacerations. People suffer and die all the time. We don't make them gods for it.

I suppose they still understood better than the others did.
Only according to themselves, which is the problem. I want outside evidence.

Once Jesus gave them the holy Spirit
Not really. I don't see much character progression at all, though that's partly because the bible doesn't know how to do it properly.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
QUOTE="sojourner, post: 5727701, member: 5010"]
you’re serious-but-misinformed, trolling, or chemically impaired.
[/QUOTE

_______________________________
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." -- Jesus, Matthew 5.
Yup. That was my assessment, based upon what you wrote.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
And this has ... what, precisely, to do with my post?

Just trying to decide which quote you dislike, and now I know.
They killed Isaiah for saying things like that, and Jesus, too.
They probably disagreed with the fact that they are blind... the murders prove God's point.
Ironic, that.
 
Last edited:

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Just trying to decide which quote you dislike, and now I know.
They killed Isaiah for saying things like that, and Jesus, too.
They disagreed with the fact that they are blind.
Hate to break it to ya: you’re not Isaiah, and you’re not Jesus. And, you’re not saying the same things they said.
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Hate to break it to ya: you’re not Isaiah, and you’re not Jesus.
And, you’re not saying the same things they said.

I haven't called myself a prophet... I don't even call myself little christ.
Having run through the possible meanings for your saying... :(

Maybe you dislike the YLT for Isaiah 6?

Here it is in the Septuagint:

"8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go to this people? And I said, behold, I am here, send me. And he said, Go, and say to this people, 9 Ye shall hear indeed, but ye shall not understand; and ye shall see indeed, but ye shall not perceive. 10 For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 11 And I said, How long, O Lord? And he said, Until cities be deserted by reason of their not being inhabited, and the houses by reason of there being no men, and the land shall be left desolate. 12 And after this God shall remove the men far off, and they that are left upon the land shall be multiplied. 13 And yet there shall be a tenth upon it, and again it shall be for a spoil, as a turpentine tree, and as an acorn when it falls out of its husk."

Jesus was quoting the Septuagint. :cool:
 

OtherSheep

<--@ Titangel
Real slaughtered sheep stay dead though.

Good thing Jesus didn't, tho, right?

"And the word became flesh and dwelt among us."
"God with us", Theanthropic Jesus.
Carrying the sins of the world, when He died, the sins of the world were cut off.

When He rose again, man became able to rise by believing on the only begotten Son of the Living God. And only if we keep His commandments, will Jesus raise us up at the last day... the commandments of the Father are life eternal. (John 12) Jesus regained His glorified body by being obedient even unto death. Everything Jesus did is our example. Not that man was once glorious, but that man has the right to become the children of God by believing on (trusting) Jesus, and by continuing to believe and to do every word Jesus commanded.
________________________
What Jesus accomplished is not what Saul says. Because it takes more than a split-second belief... which is just like the seed which withers and dies, or is choked by thorns or the deceit of riches. Seed planted by the Father grows to maturity and produces good fruit.
 
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